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Two Adams

Our "new creation" is in Christ and in heaven.

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4 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Which of course is why you interpret Scripture with Scripture and you get the correct reading which is how the translators have stated it.

I'll ask you the same question I asked my other brothers and sisters in Christ:

 

What part of the believer is naturally holy and righteous that it can skip the resurrection and go directly to heaven at death?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

No, the entire human race was not redeemed. So you are a universalist?

 

Here's one quote out of many: 

 

"While we were God’s enemies, we were (past tense) reconciled to him through the death of his Son" Rom 5:10  How?  Because when Christ died your Adamic life died too!  See Rom 6:6/7:4   Or as Paul stated it:  "When One died - all men died" 2 Cor 5:14

 

And here's one of the best:  Romans 5:18 NASB  "So then as through one transgression (Adam's sin) there resulted condemnation to all men"

 

Adam's transgression ruined and thereby condemned the human race within him.

 

"Even so through one act of righteousness (Christ's obedience & righteousness) there resulted (past tense - refers to the cross)  justification of life to all men."

 

Christ, by His doing & dying, as redeemed, saved, reconciled the entire human race "in Himself".  So "yes", Christ has universally saved the  entire fallen, Adamic race in Himself, but....

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Two Adams said:

I'll ask you the same question I asked my other brothers and sisters in Christ:

 

What part of the believer is naturally holy and righteous that it can skip the resurrection and go directly to heaven at death?

 

 

The part, the soul, that has been declared righteous. Our flesh, bodily flesh, is what will be resurrected. We don't cease to exist between now and then. There is no Scriptural support for that whatsoever without taking passages out of their context.

 

1 hour ago, Two Adams said:

 

Here's one quote out of many: 

 

"While we were God’s enemies, we were (past tense) reconciled to him through the death of his Son" Rom 5:10  How?  Because when Christ died your Adamic life died too!  See Rom 6:6/7:4   Or as Paul stated it:  "When One died - all men died" 2 Cor 5:14

 

And here's one of the best:  Romans 5:18 NASB  "So then as through one transgression (Adam's sin) there resulted condemnation to all men"

 

Adam's transgression ruined and thereby condemned the human race within him.

 

"Even so through one act of righteousness (Christ's obedience & righteousness) there resulted (past tense - refers to the cross)  justification of life to all men."

 

Christ, by His doing & dying, as redeemed, saved, reconciled the entire human race "in Himself".  So "yes", Christ has universally saved the  entire fallen, Adamic race in Himself, but....

 

 

 

These are classic examples of taking Scripture out of context.

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...but -- then we Do have Revelation 20: 15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."  And then Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral , those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning, sulfur.  This is the second death. "

 

So -- it would indicate that there Will be those who do those things without repenting. 

 

And John 17 -- mentions God's elect -- those that God has given to Him.  Christ died for all, but only God knows who will or won't accept Him as personal Savior. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sue D. said:

...but -- then we Do have Revelation 20: 15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."  And then Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral , those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning, sulfur.  This is the second death. "

 

So -- it would indicate that there Will be those who do those things without repenting. 

 

And John 17 -- mentions God's elect -- those that God has given to Him.  Christ died for all, but only God knows who will or won't accept Him as personal Savior. 

 

 

Exactly, the only way you can honestly hold a universalist position and also the position that we do not immediately go to Heaven upon death is if you take Scripture out of context and ignore other passages completely.

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 There's a book I've been reading lately about Heaven - written by Randy Alcorn -- totally based on Scripture.   And, actually, our real eternal home ,for believers , will be the New Jerusalem that God will bring down from heaven.  He will be dwelling with man.  When we talk about being in heaven with Jesus Christ whether it be at the rapture or die and are immediately in the presence of the Lord -- it won't be our permanent home 'in heaven'.  We will be safe with Jesus -- where ever that will be.  But, it's definitely Not a 'purgatory' type of place / existence, either. 

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On 5/17/2018 at 7:08 PM, Sue D. said:

 There's a book I've been reading lately about Heaven - written by Randy Alcorn -- totally based on Scripture.   And, actually, our real eternal home ,for believers , will be the New Jerusalem that God will bring down from heaven.  He will be dwelling with man.  When we talk about being in heaven with Jesus Christ whether it be at the rapture or die and are immediately in the presence of the Lord -- it won't be our permanent home 'in heaven'.  We will be safe with Jesus -- where ever that will be.  But, it's definitely Not a 'purgatory' type of place / existence, either. 

I have read Alcorn's book Heaven. He does not give only one theological perspective but several. It is "light reading". A more comprehensive read can be found in the Systematic Theology subforum, look for Louis Berkhof, his book is downoadable in pdf or mobi. Berkhof is pretty much the standard.  Another good book is Wayne Grudems Systematic Theology. These books allow you to understand the different theological perspectives. 

 

God bless,

William 

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William -- I'm Good with 'light reading'.  My husband has a Systematic Theology book by Dr. Wallace.  And there's another poster who shares some from his systematic theology off-line.  I've heard of Grudems.  

Thanks.  

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