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CDF47

Will the Universe, the Wicked, Death, and Hell All One Day Be Destroyed?

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Revelation 20:14 states, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." This verse and many others relating to the destruction and death of the wicked lead me to believe this universe, the wicked, death, the devil, and hell will all one day be totally obliterated and destroyed.

 

What are your thoughts?

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Here is how the English Standard Version translates Revelation 20:13,14: "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." The King James Bible uses the word "hell" to translate two Greek words, Gehenna and Hades. Gehenna is the lake of fire: Hades is where the souls of the unrighteous dead are held until the final judgment.

 

The lake of fire is a place of eternal punishment. Revelation 22:15 describes those who are evil as still existing outside of the new earth. "Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

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Revelation 20:14 states, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." This verse and many others relating to the destruction and death of the wicked lead me to believe this universe, the wicked, death, the devil, and hell will all one day be totally obliterated and destroyed.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

No They will not all be destroyed, depending on what you mean by "destroyed".

 

First, I believe hell and death will be destroyed in the sense of annihilation, that is, in non existence when thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

Second, while we know a new Heaven and a new Earth will be brought to pass after the White Throne Judgement, the old Heaven and Earth will not be annihilated, but metamorphosed into the new creation. God says through Isaiah:

 

Isa_45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

 

For God to say, he "created it not in vain" but "formed it to be inhabited" means to me that the Earth, while transformed, will remain forever.

 

Third, the gifts and callings of God are without repentance (Rom. 11:29), which means we all have everlasting life. The question is where is that everlasting life going to live? For the wicked who reject the gift of Christ, they will continue to live in the Lake of Fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Likewise for the fallen angels, their lives are everlasting lives, too, and will also suffer the same torment of the Lake of Fire.

 

Fourth, what does the Second Death mean? Frankly, I believe it means the continuation of the First Death. The first death came to Adam when he sinned and was banished from paradise. We are all born spiritually dead, which, like Adam, manifests into physical death and the grave. After the White Throne Judgement, all who rejected Life, which is the eternal life of God himself through the new birth of Christ, will get to keep what they wanted: the death they already had. Jesus said the that the worn never dies and the fire is never quenched. Worms are used in the decomposition of organic matter, that is, our bodies when we are physically dead. Fire is the transformation of matter into energy, which is what the rust of metal is, i.e., oxidization. That expression of Christ's speaks to me of an everlasting decomposition. The Second Death than will be the permanent death they chose to keep when they rejected the Life offered freely to them. I do not view the Lake of Fire as punishment, but, rather, containment so all the vile and wicked and permanent are retained so they can never pollute the creation again.

 

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2 Peter 3:10 - 12 states, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"

 

I believe this verse is pointing to the destruction of the universe in a lake of fire. I believe the new heaven and earth will be outside this universe in the Heavenly realm. An unquenchable fire can burn itself out which was a similar reference in Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

I think the souls of the damned will be annihilated as part of the second death in this lake of fire (litterely the elements of the universe on fire and destroyed). I commonly pray for their repentance so they may enjoy everlasting life in paradise.

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Here is how the English Standard Version translates Revelation 20:13,14: "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." The King James Bible uses the word "hell" to translate two Greek words, Gehenna and Hades. Gehenna is the lake of fire: Hades is where the souls of the unrighteous dead are held until the final judgment.

 

The lake of fire is a place of eternal punishment. Revelation 22:15 describes those who are evil as still existing outside of the new earth. "Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

 

Eternal punishment does not necessarily mean eternal punishing. It could mean the punishment is final as they are dead a second and final time. That punishment is eternal.

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2 Peter 3:10 - 12 states, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"

 

I believe this verse is pointing to the destruction of the universe in a lake of fire. I believe the new heaven and earth will be outside this universe in the Heavenly realm. An unquenchable fire can burn itself out which was a similar reference in Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

I think the souls of the damned will be annihilated as part of the second death in this lake of fire (litterely the elements of the universe on fire and destroyed). I commonly pray for their repentance so they may enjoy everlasting life in paradise.

 

That is a point of view I never heard before. Dissolving something does not remove it. Caterpillars in their cocoon dissolve then reform as butterflies. Their lives remain and the substance of their being remain. There is no reason in my mind to think God is doing a new creation. When the Earth was flooded it was drastically changed, but still remained the Earth.

 

Annihilation is the same as non-existence and is what atheists believe what happens after death.

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That is a point of view I never heard before. Dissolving something does not remove it. Caterpillars in their cocoon dissolve then reform as butterflies. Their lives remain and the substance of their being remain. There is no reason in my mind to think God is doing a new creation. When the Earth was flooded it was drastically changed, but still remained the Earth.

 

Annihilation is the same as non-existence and is what atheists believe what happens after death.

 

I am speaking only of the annihilation of the wicked which Scripture appears to support. I believe the saved enter everlasting life in paradise above.

 

The wages of sin is death. I believe this is an eternal death.

 

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15. "God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

 

The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

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I think if it as an eternal dying, the unrepentive still don't repent when the angles pour out the bowls of wrath and they can't die either.

In Rev. 16:8- 9 those who follow the beast are "scorched with great heat" and they blasphemed God. Satan, his angels, and all who follow him never stop sinning, that's a reason for thier punishment to never stop.

​​​​Rev 20:10 Satan is cast into the lake of fire and tormented "for ever and ever" then in Rev.20:15 all who aren't found in the book of life are cast into the same lake of fire.

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I think if it as an eternal dying, the unrepentive still don't repent when the angles pour out the bowls of wrath and they can't die either.

In Rev. 16:8- 9 those who follow the beast are "scorched with great heat" and they blasphemed God. Satan, his angels, and all who follow him never stop sinning, that's a reason for thier punishment to never stop.

​​​​Rev 20:10 Satan is cast into the lake of fire and tormented "for ever and ever" then in Rev.20:15 all who aren't found in the book of life are cast into the same lake of fire.

 

In the KJV it is the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet who are tormented for ever. The beast I believe is the papal system and the false prophet may be the religion of Islam. The spirit of the dragon, Satan, may be tormented for ever but this could be interpreted differently based on all the verses of the wicked being destroyed or perishing. It could be that in God's eternal mind He will remember this forever and that is where evil will remain tormented forever. I don't believe God is an eternal torturer but as the Son of God said, He can destroy both body and soul.

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Revelation 20:14 states, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." This verse and many others relating to the destruction and death of the wicked lead me to believe this universe, the wicked, death, the devil, and hell will all one day be totally obliterated and destroyed.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

There is nothing like hell, it is all about karma. Once our evilness gets destroyed, all the good will come back as karma. And death is a natural process no one can stop that.

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Hi Lauraswain, first off, WELCOME TO CF :RpS_smile:

 

That said, "Karma" is not a Christian principle, in fact, it goes against nearly everything the Christian faith teaches us concerning salvation. Here's a quote by U2's Bono's that says it pretty well I think:

You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it.

 

And yet, along comes this idea called
Grace
to
upend
all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff. I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity.
- Bono

We are saved "by grace", IOW, on the basis of an unmerited favor from God, by a goodness and a righteousness that are not our own (because we are neither, nor can we ever be). God, in fact, is in the business of justifying/saving the ungodly/wicked who come to Him on the basis of faith alone in His Son (and in the works He did for us .. cf Romans 10:9-10).

Romans 4

5 To the one who
does not work
,
but believes
in Him who justifies the
ungodly
, his
faith
is credited as righteousness.

 

Yours and His,

David

John 3

16 God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
believes
in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

Edited by David Lee
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There is nothing like hell, it is all about karma. Once our evilness gets destroyed, all the good will come back as karma. And death is a natural process no one can stop that.

 

While Bono concludes with the right answer, his beginning is wrong. Sowing and reaping are not the same thing as Karma. In sowing and reaping, the seed sown can only reap the same plant. Metaphorically we use the expression for behavior, be rude to people and people will be rude to you. But it is the same thing. Karma, on the other hand, is a specific Hindu belief that your behavior in this life will determine what kind of new life you will have in reincarnation. Reincarnation means being born on Earth as either a lowly peasant when in a past life you might have been a king, or even coming back to life as beetle or some other animal. Christianity is very clear that we live once, die, then the judgement (Heb. 9:27). We do not come back to life on this Earth reincarnated. For all who trust Christ when they die, they will return in glorified bodies, of course. But all who die rejecting Christ will go to the place of the dead, called Hell, then be resurrected to face the White Throne Judgment. After that judgment they will be cast into the Lake of Fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. Resurrection is not the same thing as reincarnation since all who are resurrected are raised back to life as the person they were before they died. Reincarnation means a completely different life, whether as an animal or human through birth in a physical manner.

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While Bono concludes with the right answer, his beginning is wrong. Sowing and reaping are not the same thing as Karma. In sowing and reaping, the seed sown can only reap the same plant. Metaphorically we use the expression for behavior, be rude to people and people will be rude to you. But it is the same thing. Karma, on the other hand, is a specific Hindu belief that your behavior in this life will determine what kind of new life you will have in reincarnation. Reincarnation means being born on Earth as either a lowly peasant when in a past life you might have been a king, or even coming back to life as beetle or some other animal. Christianity is very clear that we live once, die, then the judgement (Heb. 9:27). We do not come back to life on this Earth reincarnated. For all who trust Christ when they die, they will return in glorified bodies, of course. But all who die rejecting Christ will go to the place of the dead, called Hell, then be resurrected to face the White Throne Judgment. After that judgment they will be cast into the Lake of Fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. Resurrection is not the same thing as reincarnation since all who are resurrected are raised back to life as the person they were before they died. Reincarnation means a completely different life, whether as an animal or human through birth in a physical manner.

 

I agree with most of that, except:

 

The wages of sin is death. I believe this is an eternal death.

 

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15. "God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

 

The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

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While Bono concludes with the right answer, his beginning is wrong. Sowing and reaping are not the same thing as Karma. In sowing and reaping, the seed sown can only reap the same plant. Metaphorically we use the expression for behavior, be rude to people and people will be rude to you. But it is the same thing. Karma, on the other hand, is a specific Hindu belief that your behavior in this life will determine what kind of new life you will have in reincarnation. Reincarnation means being born on Earth as either a lowly peasant when in a past life you might have been a king, or even coming back to life as beetle or some other animal. Christianity is very clear that we live once, die, then the judgement (Heb. 9:27). We do not come back to life on this Earth reincarnated. For all who trust Christ when they die, they will return in glorified bodies, of course. But all who die rejecting Christ will go to the place of the dead, called Hell, then be resurrected to face the White Throne Judgment. After that judgment they will be cast into the Lake of Fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. Resurrection is not the same thing as reincarnation since all who are resurrected are raised back to life as the person they were before they died. Reincarnation means a completely different life, whether as an animal or human through birth in a physical manner.

 

I agree with most of that, except the wages for sin is death an eternal final death based on my post above.

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Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

 

We were dead in sin before we were saved, yet in spite of being dead we were conscious and aware of what was going on. Ephesians 2:1-3 says, "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." Hell will be an eternal continuation in that state.

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Hell will be an eternal continuation in that state.

 

I pray that is not the case. I disagree based on the scriptures I posted above regarding the destruction of the un-saved.

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Great question....(s)


First I need to ask you a question?
If you designed a beautiful home, allowed tenants to move in, and soon your tenants became disrespectful and began to destroy the home and the property,  just how would you deal with the situation?

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2 hours ago, Barbara said:

Great question....(s)

Will the Universe, the Wicked, Death, and Hell All One Day Be Destroyed?

By CDF47, August 15, 2017 in Other


First I need to ask you a question?
If you designed a beautiful home, allowed tenants to move in, and soon your tenants became disrespectful and began to destroy the home and the property,  just how would you deal with the situation?

Let me ask you a question.  Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal why would such be even be a consideration with Him?

 

Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal He could create trillions with no more effort than he did the first.  Thus your point becomes moot.  The objection within your question fail because it does not taken into account the fact God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Origen said:

Let me ask you a question.  Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal why would such be even be a consideration with Him?

 

Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal He could create trillions with no more effort than he did the first.  Thus your point becomes moot.  The objection within your question fail because it does not taken into account the fact God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal.

Well then, there we have it! 

Since you don't even know where I was going with the question I asked, I suppose there is nothing more to say as you have made a determination to NOT carry on any conversation ....
Have a nice evening.

Edited by Barbara

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On 8/15/2017 at 3:43 PM, CDF47 said:

Revelation 20:14 states, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." This verse and many others relating to the destruction and death of the wicked lead me to believe this universe, the wicked, death, the devil, and hell will all one day be totally obliterated and destroyed.

 

What are your thoughts?

I don't think there is any reason to believe from this text that they will be obliterated. It says the second death, yes, but that doesn't indicate finality. The first death was not an obliteration, it was moving to a different phase.  We must also interpret Scripture with Scripture, verse 10 says the devil was thrown into the lake of fire and that they were tormented day and night forever and ever. That doesn't even come close to sounding like there is a destruction and obliteration.

 

Hope this helps.

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2 minutes ago, Barbara said:

Have a nice evening.
 

Same to you.

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5 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

I don't think there is any reason to believe from this text that they will be obliterated. It says the second death, yes, but that doesn't indicate finality. The first death was not an obliteration, it was moving to a different phase.  We must also interpret Scripture with Scripture, verse 10 says the devil was thrown into the lake of fire and that they were tormented day and night forever and ever. That doesn't even come close to sounding like there is a destruction and obliteration.

 

Hope this helps.

What about the Scripture below:

 

Psalm 1:6 ... but the way of the ungodly shall perish
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish... they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalm 92:7 ... shall be destroyed forever
Matthew 10:28b Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
John 3:16 ... whosoever believeth in him should not perish (Greek: destroyed) ...
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death 
Philippians 3:19 whose end is "destruction" ...
2 Thessalonians 1:9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction ...
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (Greek: destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
James 4:12a There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.
Revelation 20:14 This is the second death...

 

It appears to me like the wicked are destroyed.  This is good information on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism).  Maybe Satan, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented in God's mind forever and ever since He is an everlasting God, as one possible interpretation.  This punishment seems more to fit the crime in my opinion and it is backed up by Scripture.

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2 hours ago, Barbara said:

Great question....(s)


First I need to ask you a question?
If you designed a beautiful home, allowed tenants to move in, and soon your tenants became disrespectful and began to destroy the home and the property,  just how would you deal with the situation?

They would deserve punishment and jail time and need to pay for the damages.  Not infinite jail time though.

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6 hours ago, Barbara said:

Since you don't even know where I was going with the question I asked, I suppose there is nothing more to say as you have made a determination to NOT carry on any conversation ....

Let me be clear.  First, I addressed your question.  You simply did not like the answer.  Second, you don't know what I think.  Say whatever you like.  Third, I have said nothing about ending the conversation.  You are the one who brought that up not me.  Fourth, you went back and edited your post and did not let me know of the changes.  That is dishonest.  It gives a false impression of the dialogue.  Fifth, I suggest you take a breath.

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16 minutes ago, Origen said:

Let me ask you a question.  Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal why would such be even be a consideration with Him?

 

Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal He could create trillions with no more effort than he did the first.  Thus your point becomes moot.  The objection within your question fail because it does not taken into account the fact God is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal.

I just feel there is Scripture refuting eternal punishing of the wicked and that the punishment of destruction better fits the crime.

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