Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Are you Protestant? Or, are you sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll need to register in order to post your comments on your favorite topics and subjects. Register in less than a minute, it is simple, fast, and free! We hope you enjoy your fellowship here! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christforums

.... an orthodox Protestant forum whose members espouse the Apostolic doctrines in the Biblical theologies set forth by Augustine, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin and John Knox etc. We do not "argue" with nor do we solicit the membership of people who espouse secular or cultic ideologies. We believe that our conversations are to be faith building and posts that advance heretical or apostate thinking will be immediately deleted and the poster permanently banned from the forum. This is a Christian community for people to explore the traditional theologies of Classical Protestantism. Those who would challenge the peace and harmony that we enjoy here as fellow believers are directed to another forum.

Enjoy your fellowship

In order to understand the importance of Christian fellowship, we must first understand what Christian fellowship is and what it isn’t. The Greek words translated “fellowship” in the New Testament mean essentially a partnership to the mutual benefit of those involved. Christian fellowship, then, is the mutually beneficial relationship between Christians, who can’t have the identical relationship with those outside the faith. Those who believe the gospel are united in the Spirit through Christ to the Father, and that unity is the basis of fellowship. This relationship is described by Jesus in His high-priestly prayer for His followers in John 17:23. The importance of true Christian fellowship is that it reinforces Christ centeredness in our mind and helps us to focus on Christ and His desires and goals for us. As iron sharpens iron, in true Christian fellowship Christians sharpen one another's faith and stir one another to exercise that faith in love and good works, all to God’s glory.
William

Genesis 1:1 Is the First Event, Not a Summary

Recommended Posts

Commentaries regularly discuss three main interpretations of Gen 1:1 in

relation to the subsequent verses. (1) According to the first, traditional

interpretation, Gen 1:1 describes the initial event among God’s acts

of creation. Verse 2 then gives circumstantial information about the state of

the earth at an early point. (2) According to the second interpretation, Gen

1:1 functions as a temporal subordinate clause: “In the beginning, when God

created the heaven and the earth, the earth was without form....” (3) According

to the third interpretation, Gen 1:1 is a summary of the entire sequence of

divine acts described in vv. 2–31. It does not describe the very first event that

led to the creation of the earth and its unformed state in v. 2. Rather, the first

act of making things starts with v. 3, and Gen 1 offers no comment on how the

unformed earth of v. 2 came into being.1

 

Vern S. Poythress is Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Westminster Theological Seminary.

 

PoythressVernGenesis1.1IsTheFirstEventNotASummary.pdf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erm... don't understand the paper too well... too many big words. Haha!

 

But it seems to me nowadays the more that scientists learn about our existence, the more they will find out that there is "something greater" out there. We often view science and religion as a contradicting thing and they work against each other, but in my opinion, we just need to give science a bit of time to catch up with religion. I love this video by minutephysics that gives you the gist of what physicist and mathematicians have been working on for years just to find that the universe seems like there might really have had a beginning. Honestly, I think they're getting closer to Genesis 1:1 and the idea that before creation, God existed.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love this video by minutephysics that gives you the gist of what physicist and mathematicians have been working on for years just to find that the universe seems like there might really have had a beginning.

 

I do not think there really is true friction between religion and science. Probably the two could best be summed up by understanding that science is the interpretation of nature, and theology the interpretation of Scripture. Neither should contradict nature or Scripture, but sometimes they (scientist and theologians) contradict one another. In both cases I believe Romans 1 suggests that man has the inclination to "suppress" the truth in unbelief, which can occur not only in the natural sciences, but also in theology.

 

Don't know about physicist either, especially about theoretical physicist, but I'd like to ask what the probability is that something came from nothing from a Mathematician. Especially in lieu of the first couple of laws of thermodynamics. Not only that, but about the precision that is needed to support life. I mean I'm fascinated by the sheer miracle of which something can come from nothing at all, but not only that but the precision needed to sustain life altogether. Not in just one instance such as gravity but all factors. I'm sure you're familiar with arguments which support the "Fine Tuning of the Universe". I can't comprehend numbers like these but I wouldn't mind a Mathematician trying to explain the probability in terms that I can understand. Especially in a "time frame" of only billions of years. Time seems to be not only the miracle worker for unbelieving scientist, but also the greatest obstacle:

 

"Calculations by Brandon Carter show that if gravity had been stronger or weaker by 1 part in 10 to the 40th power, then life-sustaining stars like the sun could not exist. This would most likely make life impossible. (Davies, 1984, p. 242.)" - Now explain that to me like a four year old!

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I do not think there really is true friction between religion and science. Probably the two could best be summed up by understanding that science is the interpretation of nature, and theology the interpretation of Scripture. Neither should contradict nature or Scripture, but sometimes they (scientist and theologians) contradict one another. In both cases I believe Romans 1 suggests that man has the inclination to "suppress" the truth in unbelief, which can occur not only in the natural sciences, but also in theology.

 

Don't know about physicist either, especially about theoretical physicist, but I'd like to ask what the probability is that something came from nothing from a Mathematician. Especially in lieu of the first couple of laws of thermodynamics.

 

My degree is in mathematics, so I suppose that sort of makes me a mathematician. The answer is that there is simply no basis for doing the calculation. As for the laws of thermo dynamics, it could be argued that there has first of all got to be a universe before there can be laws which apply to it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My degree is in mathematics, so I suppose that sort of makes me a mathematician. The answer is that there is simply no basis for doing the calculation. As for the laws of thermo dynamics, it could be argued that there has first of all got to be a universe before there can be laws which apply to it.

 

Hmmmm -- interesting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to the first, traditional interpretation, Gen 1:1 describes the initial event among God’s acts

of creation.

1. This is the correct view, since before the heavens and the earth were created, there was NOTHING other than the triune Godhead (the Holy Trinity).

 

2. How do we know that there was nothing before God spoke the heavens and the earth into existence? (1) By faith and (2) by the written Word of God where we read (Hebrews 11:3): Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Theologians call this "Creatio Ex Nihilo" (creation out of nothing).

 

In this regard natural science has discovered that (1) the entire material universe is simply electrons, which combine in varying ratios to produce molecules, which in turn result in everything that we see around us; (2) that these electrons are not static but constantly in vibratory motion, and (3) therefore matter changes into energy and energy into matter. Science has also discovered that the highest energy vibrations are thought, so we can conclude that when God spoke, His thoughts through His words were converted into matter out of nothing. But His words were sent forth by the Word Himself (and we may never fully understand this).

 

3. We find that in Genesis 1:1 it is GOD who created the heavens and the earth. That word "God" is the Hebrew word "Elohim", which is a uni-plural word and immediately indicates that there were three Divine Persons engaged in creation and yet one God -- the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. While the Father and the Holy Spirit are mentioned in Gen 1:1,2, the Word is mentioned in John 1:1,2 to complete the picture.

 

4. Even though the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit were all involved, the Father ultimately gave creation into the hands of the Son (or the Word). How do we know this? From Hebrews 1:8-12 (as well as other Scriptures).:But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

 

5. Finally, it is in the Ten Commandments that God has embedded a literal six day creation, each day being of a 24 hour duration (Exodus 20:8-11):

 

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

 

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

 

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

 

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

What this means is that neither evolution, nor theistic evolution, nor the Gap Theory, nor the Day-Age Theory have any validity whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe Genesis 1:1 is the headlines, if you like, and then comes the full story or explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this regard natural science has discovered that (1) the entire material universe is simply electrons, which combine in varying ratios to produce molecules, which in turn result in everything that we see around us; (2) that these electrons are not static but constantly in vibratory motion, and (3) therefore matter changes into energy and energy into matter. Science has also discovered that the highest energy vibrations are thought, so we can conclude that when God spoke, His thoughts through His words were converted into matter out of nothing. But His words were sent forth by the Word Himself (and we may never fully understand this).

 

I wished fundamentalists would stop trying to mix physics and theology - especially physics they make up on the spur of the moment. Where do protons, neutrons or the strong nuclear force fit into your scheme of things?

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You seem to place a lot of emphasis upon the preposition "in." Would you point out the preposition in the Hebrew text?

 

כִּ֣י שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ עָשָׂ֨ה יְהוָ֜ה אֶת־הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם וְאֶת־הָאָ֗רֶץ אֶת־הַיָּם֙ וְאֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֔ם וַיָּ֖נַח בַּיּ֣וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֑י עַל־כֵּ֗ן בֵּרַ֧ךְ יְהוָ֛ה אֶת־י֥וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֖ת וַֽיְקַדְּשֵֽׁהוּ׃

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You seem to place a lot of emphasis upon the preposition "in." Would you point out the preposition in the Hebrew text?

 

כִּ֣י שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ עָשָׂ֨ה יְהוָ֜ה אֶת־הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם וְאֶת־הָאָ֗רֶץ אֶת־הַיָּם֙ וְאֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֔ם וַיָּ֖נַח בַּיּ֣וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֑י עַל־כֵּ֗ן בֵּרַ֧ךְ יְהוָ֛ה אֶת־י֥וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֖ת וַֽיְקַדְּשֵֽׁהוּ׃

 

Now, WHICH Hebrew text is this from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now, WHICH Hebrew text is this from?
Which Hebrew text do you want me to used? And if I did change texts would he then be able to point out the preposition? Edited by Origen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You seem to place a lot of emphasis upon the preposition "in." Would you point out the preposition in the Hebrew text?

The preposition is a given in the Hebrew text, even though it is in italics. The literal interlinear reading is as follows: Earth and heaven the LORD made days [in] six...

 

But we are not left without a second witness, and we read in Gen 1:31 - 2:3:

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The preposition is a given in the Hebrew text, even though it is in italics. The literal interlinear reading is as follows: Earth and heaven the LORD made days [in] six...
The preposition "in" is in brackets. Do you know what that means?

 

כִּ֣י שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ עָשָׂ֨ה יְהוָ֜ה אֶת־הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם וְאֶת־הָאָ֗רֶץ אֶת־הַיָּם֙ וְאֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֔ם וַיָּ֖נַח בַּיּ֣וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֑י עַל־כֵּ֗ן בֵּרַ֧ךְ יְהוָ֛ה אֶת־י֥וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֖ת וַֽיְקַדְּשֵֽׁהוּ׃

 

The preposition is a given in the Hebrew text, even though it is in italics.
It is a given? Then please explain how Hebrew syntax works in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Curious as to whether anyone has read the OP's paper? Three views are given. Which view do you hold?

 

God bless,

William

 

I was just reading Lucas' post #6. That's sounds most likely.

 

The first verse 1:1 tells us who created the world and proceeds to tell us the state of Before creating it. And then tells us when and how it was accomplished. 6/24 hr days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I do not think there really is true friction between religion and science. Probably the two could best be summed up by understanding that science is the interpretation of nature, and theology the interpretation of Scripture. Neither should contradict nature or Scripture, but sometimes they (scientist and theologians) contradict one another. In both cases I believe Romans 1 suggests that man has the inclination to "suppress" the truth in unbelief, which can occur not only in the natural sciences, but also in theology.

 

Don't know about physicist either, especially about theoretical physicist, but I'd like to ask what the probability is that something came from nothing from a Mathematician. Especially in lieu of the first couple of laws of thermodynamics.

 

My degree is in mathematics, so I suppose that sort of makes me a mathematician. The answer is that there is simply no basis for doing the calculation. As for the laws of thermo dynamics, it could be argued that there has first of all got to be a universe before there can be laws which apply to it.

Not at all! God created the material universe and the laws simultaneously. Other laws came into effect when that part of creation also came into effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Since science is the study of creation, it cannot address what was before this physical universe. Hawking states in his lecture, The beginning of time, “Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang”.

 

He is correct. God is eternal. Time is a product of this created physical universe from which God exists prior to and apart from. I agree with William here when he states “I don’t think there really is true friction between religion and science.

 

Time, Creation and the “Big Bang”

 

It is believed that time, or the measurement of events in the physical universe began some 15 billion years ago with an advent referred to as the “Big Bang”.

Hawking also asserts, that the solar system can be extrapolated far beyond the four thousand and four years BC, suggested in the book of Genesis.

 

The book of Genesis does not state that creation began 4004 BC. Hawking is arguing from a false premise.

 

Genesis 1 is as follows:

 

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

If we look at verses 14 – 18, we see that the sun/stars and earths moon were created on the 4th day. This would make the first 24 hour earth day begin on day five. Prior to this events were occurring in pre-solar/earth time not our current 24 hour days. Look again at verse 14: "and for seasons, and for days, and years" Here it states in part the purpose of the creation of stars and their relationship to planets, in this case earth. If God, being the light during the first 4 days of creation and being no stars/sun, then there were no measurable earth days, years, seasons.

 

Day: yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), elder, × end, evening, (for) ever(-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, × required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole ( age), (full) year(-ly), younger.

 

This word seems to mean a period of time, an age since 24 hour days did not yet exist.

 

Light: ôwr, ore; from H215; illumination or (concrete) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.):—bright, clear, day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

 

This word explains itself. Things were made clear, illuminated.

 

Waters: mayim, mah'-yim; dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively, juice; by euphemism, urine, semen:— piss, wasting, water(-ing, (-course, -flood, -spring)).

 

This word could describe liquid gas...

 

Firmament: râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

 

This word seems to describe space…

 

The difficulty in understanding the Genesis creation account lies in the multi usages of some of the words. The writers is not so concerned with how God did it, simply that He did. It is a brief preamble for the introduction of Gods relationship with man, past, present and future. The light before the creation of stars may be explained as follows:

 

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

I am not concerned with how God did it, leave that for scientists to speculate, analyze, theorize and reverse engineer if they can.

 

Given limitless “Time”, men may understand the principles and formula God applied during the process of creation, that would be interesting, it is not however essential to a relationship with our Creator.

 

Genesis 11:9 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs, What you think of Genesis chapter 1 will have no impact on your salvation or relationship with Christ.

Edited by islandrazor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Curious as to whether anyone has read the OP's paper? Three views are given. Which view do you hold?

 

God bless,

William

 

I was just reading Lucas' post #6. That's sounds most likely.

 

The first verse 1:1 tells us who created the world and proceeds to tell us the state of Before creating it. And then tells us when and how it was accomplished. 6/24 hr days.

I think I am #2 Gen.1: through 1:5 all constitute the first day of creation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since science is the study of creation, it cannot address what was before this physical universe. Hawking states in his lecture, The beginning of time, “Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang”.

 

He is correct. God is eternal. Time is a product of this created physical universe from which God exists prior to and apart from. I agree with William here when he states “I don’t think there really is true friction between religion and science.

 

Time, Creation and the “Big Bang”

 

It is believed that time, or the measurement of events in the physical universe began some 15 billion years ago with an advent referred to as the “Big Bang”.

Hawking also asserts, that the solar system can be extrapolated far beyond the four thousand and four years BC, suggested in the book of Genesis.

 

The book of Genesis does not state that creation began 4004 BC. Hawking is arguing from a false premise.

 

Genesis 1 is as follows:

 

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

If we look at verses 14 – 18, we see that the sun/stars and earths moon were created on the 4th day. This would make the first 24 hour earth day begin on day five. Prior to this events were occurring in pre-solar/earth time not our current 24 hour days. Look again at verse 14: "and for seasons, and for days, and years" Here it states in part the purpose of the creation of stars and their relationship to planets, in this case earth. If God, being the light during the first 4 days of creation and being no stars/sun, then there were no measurable earth days, years, seasons.

 

Day: yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), elder, × end, evening, (for) ever(-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, × required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole ( age), (full) year(-ly), younger.

 

This word seems to mean a period of time, an age since 24 hour days did not yet exist.

 

Light: ôwr, ore; from H215; illumination or (concrete) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.):—bright, clear, day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

 

This word explains itself. Things were made clear, illuminated.

 

Waters: mayim, mah'-yim; dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively, juice; by euphemism, urine, semen:— piss, wasting, water(-ing, (-course, -flood, -spring)).

 

This word could describe liquid gas...

 

Firmament: râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

 

This word seems to describe space…

 

The difficulty in understanding the Genesis creation account lies in the multi usages of some of the words. The writers is not so concerned with how God did it, simply that He did. It is a brief preamble for the introduction of Gods relationship with man, past, present and future. The light before the creation of stars may be explained as follows:

 

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

I am not concerned with how God did it, leave that for scientists to speculate, analyze, theorize and reverse engineer if they can.

 

Given limitless “Time”, men may understand the principles and formula God applied during the process of creation, that would be interesting, it is not however essential to a relationship with our Creator.

 

Genesis 11:9 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs, What you think of Genesis chapter 1 will have no impact on your salvation or relationship with Christ.

I also agree there is no friction between real science and theology. But a big bang cosmology and Darwinian evolution are not science but a competing and diametrically opposite world view of Scripture. True science supports a young earth modeland the biblical creation , flood and babel dispersion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the beginning God…… And God said….

 

Christ is the Word of God. God, the I Am, The source of everything created everything. Christ implemented it. They are One in purpose, intent, direction… Past, Present, Future, without beginning or end. We, the church are supposed to be one, one body different functions. When we marry, we become one in God’s sight.

 

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

Eternity will return. This temporal universe will end. “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

I don’t have the sense that Stephen Hawking is going to get the billions of years of earth existence he imagines.

 

I see evil men waxing worse and worse. I see that which is evil in God’s sight being considered good and that which is good considered intolerant and hateful. I see wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine.

I look forward to this promise...

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I say, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Even so Lord, Come...”

 

I don’t care how old this earth is, We get a new one. God knows them that are His. May He strengthen and sustain each one of my brothers and sisters, And may you walk not after the flesh, but rather in His spirit looking forward to and “waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the beginning God…… And God said….

 

Christ is the Word of God. God, the I Am, The source of everything created everything. Christ implemented it. They are One in purpose, intent, direction… Past, Present, Future, without beginning or end. We, the church are supposed to be one, one body different functions. When we marry, we become one in God’s sight.

 

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

Eternity will return. This temporal universe will end. “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

I don’t have the sense that Stephen Hawking is going to get the billions of years of earth existence he imagines.

 

I see evil men waxing worse and worse. I see that which is evil in God’s sight being considered good and that which is good considered intolerant and hateful. I see wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine.

I look forward to this promise...

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I say, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Even so Lord, Come...”

 

I don’t care how old this earth is, We get a new one. God knows them that are His. May He strengthen and sustain each one of my brothers and sisters, And may you walk not after the flesh, but rather in His spirit looking forward to and “waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.

 

 

 

Well I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

 

However we should care deeply when the pseudo sciences of the big bang and evolution have crept into the church. We have seen the evil fruits of these taking hold in so many places. It is all part and parcel of Satans deception and plot to lure Christians away from our powerful weapon- the Word of God!

 

If we are willing to pooh-pooh evolution and the big bang- when we allegorize away the six days of creation- the genealogies, the flood, the dispersion at Babel with the birth of the rootstock languages and nations we nullify the Word of God! Where will we draw that line in the sand and say no more!

 

But by then how powerful can our defense of the word be? We bargained away so much of it because unbelievers appeared to have answers-. I have seen over and over and over again many people rejecting the gospel because they say "why should I believe in a literal Jesus when there was no literal creation, flood, Jonah etc.etc.?

 

Believe it or not this is an important battle ground.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks nolidad,

 

I could care less about evolution. Since there was no life, just gas, Gut wrenching gas pains. Cosmic flatulence so to speak, then it became so dense it, well, blew itself up. Now we have stars, planets, etc., but no life. What I don't understand, and neither do any scientists, is, What made that first rock glance over at another hot looking rock and say, Lets make babies. Well honey how would we go about that? We are dead stones you know. He replies, Lets roll up that hill over there and jump off, if we break, then we have offspring...... ( I do understand. GOD) And on another subject regarding evolution. Scripture refers to homosexuality as against nature. Interesting enough, so does "Origin of the Species". The primary mechanism of natural selection/evolutions, passing on of survival traits is though reproduction. True homosexuals do not reproduce, they would have died out in short order. So... Yes it is against nature and God.

Anyway, God did and does great work. I don't care how He did it. If were six days, six hours or six seconds, Or if He just said, Let this appear. Let there be... You get the point. Time is a temporary experience. Eternity was and will return.

And on another note... I thought I posted this yesterday and don't see it so here it is again.

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

Eternity will return. This temporal universe will end. “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

 

I don’t have the sense that Stephen Hawking is going to get the billions of years of earth existence he imagines.

 

I see evil men waxing worse and worse. I see that which is evil in God’s sight being considered good and that which is good considered intolerant and hateful. I see wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine.

 

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I say, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Even so Lord, Come...”

 

I don’t care how old this earth is, We get a new one. God knows them that are His. May He strengthen and sustain each one of my brothers and sisters, And may you walk not after the flesh, but rather in His spirit looking forward to and “waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.

And nolidad, I take the bible literally. Just what I read in Genesis is, no 24 hour earth/sun day till day five. It is good to read and see true believers sharing. May Our God continue to bless, encourage and sustain each any every one of you who trusts in his Word.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks nolidad,

 

I could care less about evolution. Since there was no life, just gas, Gut wrenching gas pains. Cosmic flatulence so to speak, then it became so dense it, well, blew itself up. Now we have stars, planets, etc., but no life. What I don't understand, and neither do any scientists, is, What made that first rock glance over at another hot looking rock and say, Lets make babies. Well honey how would we go about that? We are dead stones you know. He replies, Lets roll up that hill over there and jump off, if we break, then we have offspring...... ( I do understand. GOD) And on another subject regarding evolution. Scripture refers to homosexuality as against nature. Interesting enough, so does "Origin of the Species". The primary mechanism of natural selection/evolutions, passing on of survival traits is though reproduction. True homosexuals do not reproduce, they would have died out in short order. So... Yes it is against nature and God.

Anyway, God did and does great work. I don't care how He did it. If were six days, six hours or six seconds, Or if He just said, Let this appear. Let there be... You get the point. Time is a temporary experience. Eternity was and will return.

And on another note... I thought I posted this yesterday and don't see it so here it is again.

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

Eternity will return. This temporal universe will end. “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

 

I don’t have the sense that Stephen Hawking is going to get the billions of years of earth existence he imagines.

 

I see evil men waxing worse and worse. I see that which is evil in God’s sight being considered good and that which is good considered intolerant and hateful. I see wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine.

 

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I say, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Even so Lord, Come...”

 

I don’t care how old this earth is, We get a new one. God knows them that are His. May He strengthen and sustain each one of my brothers and sisters, And may you walk not after the flesh, but rather in His spirit looking forward to and “waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.

And nolidad, I take the bible literally. Just what I read in Genesis is, no 24 hour earth/sun day till day five. It is good to read and see true believers sharing. May Our God continue to bless, encourage and sustain each any every one of you who trusts in his Word.

I praise god for your excitement.

 

While salvation is not affected one whit by whether one believes God created in six 24 hour days (which scripture says) or billions of years, I care deeply about the integrity of Scripture.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the beginning God…… And God said….

 

Christ is the Word of God. God, the I Am, The source of everything created everything. Christ implemented it. They are One in purpose, intent, direction… Past, Present, Future, without beginning or end. We, the church are supposed to be one, one body different functions. When we marry, we become one in God’s sight.

 

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

Eternity will return. This temporal universe will end. “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

I don’t have the sense that Stephen Hawking is going to get the billions of years of earth existence he imagines.

 

I see evil men waxing worse and worse. I see that which is evil in God’s sight being considered good and that which is good considered intolerant and hateful. I see wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine.

I look forward to this promise...

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I say, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Even so Lord, Come...”

 

I don’t care how old this earth is, We get a new one. God knows them that are His. May He strengthen and sustain each one of my brothers and sisters, And may you walk not after the flesh, but rather in His spirit looking forward to and “waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”.

 

 

 

Good points, nolidad -- Since God has been powerful enough to resurrect His Son, Jesus Christ, He should Also be powerful enough to create this universe / world just exactly as stated in Genesis 1:1 -- 6, 24 hr days included. Adam and Eve were created with age so that they could immediately have children together. And this world was created ready to take care of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see no explanation in Scripture about when God created the unformed earth. It simply says that the earth was formless and void and doesn't explain how long it has been there. All of that is kinda interesting to ponder, but we won't know this side of heaven because it isn't in the Bible. it isn't there because it isn't the point of the book. Because even though science and history is in the Bible, the Bible is not about science and history. The main point of the first chapter is that "God made it"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see no explanation in Scripture about when God created the unformed earth. It simply says that the earth was formless and void and doesn't explain how long it has been there. All of that is kinda interesting to ponder, but we won't know this side of heaven because it isn't in the Bible. it isn't there because it isn't the point of the book. Because even though science and history is in the Bible, the Bible is not about science and history. The main point of the first chapter is that "God made it"

I find it interesting because God knew that at some point in history, there would be such as thing as evolutionary thought -- that people would wonder exactly how this world of ours and all that exists in it Did get here. And it's natural that a person wonders where Did I come from. My ancestors, etc.

 

And right there in the 1st chapter of Genesis -- the book of Beginnings -- God directs the Holy Spirit, through Moses as to how long it took-- 6 - 24 hr days. "And the evening and the morning were the 1st day, etc". Our time says that the evening and morning constitute a single day.

 

"Our" problem seems to be that we don't give God the credit / ability To create all that He Did create in the time allotted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×