Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christforums

.... an orthodox (true and correct when contrasted with Liberal theology) Protestant forum whose members espouse the Apostolic doctrines in the Biblical theologies set forth by Augustine, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin and John Knox etc. We do not "argue" with nor do we solicit the membership of people who espouse secular or cultic ideologies. We believe that our conversations are to be faith building and posts that advance heretical or apostate thinking will be immediately deleted and the poster permanently banned from the forum. This is a Christian Protestant community for people to explore the traditional theologies of Classical Protestantism.

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Sign in to follow this  
CarlosTL

Does prison solve anything?

Recommended Posts

The US is known for having one the highest inmates to population ratios, and overall, US or not, prison seems to be like an absurd system, that paradoxically works as a subsidy for crime and thus generally makes the crime situation worse.

 

I fail to see how locking thousands of people like chattel for years and years (with all the financial costs involved), contributes to solving the crime situation or punishing these people or making them better persons. If anything, the current prison system, no matter how inhumane it looks, offers an option or a fallback plan for many desperate people in society, who at some point resorted to some sort of crime.

 

It is sweeping dust under the carpet, we send these people to prison, we don't see them anymore so we think that the problem is solved. It is really an absurd system that has only come into existence in the modern world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty efficient in separating horrible criminals from "normal" people. However, it doesn't really change them for better. In prison, they mostly interact with other criminals who may have committed even more serious crimes. Some ex-prisoners quit anything that involves wrongdoing and lead a normal life. Others don't really care. Moreover, they are getting used to their life in prison and don't really want to leave. They become scared of major changes in their lives. Those people are at risk of relapsing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prison solves a whole lot when it comes to putting dangerous criminals into the system. I would much rather have a person who commits murder, spending their life in prison, rather than out in the world. There are some cases where I can feel bad for the prisoner and wonder why they insist on keeping a person for so long, but majority of the time it solves a whole lot. When a family member is put into the system, it's heart breaking. My heart goes out to the family that has to go through the withdrawal of their relative- but we pay the price for our crimes. I do think that our prisons need to have better programs, to help prisoners become more productive members of society.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prisons are part of a larger problem known as the Prison Industrial Complex. Prisons do not really solve anything in my humble opinion. Prisons are mostly about incarceration rather than rehabilitation. The prison system warehouses criminals which only breeds more criminals whereas the rehabilitation is not as important as the sentence in my view. Prisons do not solve anything contrary to what the popular opinion may be. Prisoners today have access to the same things they did on the street: Drugs, Guns, Sex, Alcohol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it solves a lot. I think that most of the people who come out of prison changed and reformed are those who personally used the experience to grow and change, and not because it was prison itself. That is to say, those who want to change and learn to do differently will, just as in any other circumstance. I suppose it does help in a way to keep some people off the street who might otherwise be a danger, however, there's also no way to prove that an offender will offend again. Statistics say it's likely, but likely doesn't equal an absolute. Prison is an expensive way to deal with crime, but I feel like a more effective way might be even more expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The US is known for having one the highest inmates to population ratios, and overall, US or not, prison seems to be like an absurd system, that paradoxically works as a subsidy for crime and thus generally makes the crime situation worse.

 

I fail to see how locking thousands of people like chattel for years and years (with all the financial costs involved), contributes to solving the crime situation or punishing these people or making them better persons. If anything, the current prison system, no matter how inhumane it looks, offers an option or a fallback plan for many desperate people in society, who at some point resorted to some sort of crime.

 

It is sweeping dust under the carpet, we send these people to prison, we don't see them anymore so we think that the problem is solved. It is really an absurd system that has only come into existence in the modern world.

 

Absurd isn't it? I read where a guy sued because he was sentenced to a Christian facility for rehabilitation and won. Just a matter of time before liberals try to stop prison ministries.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other countries look at in the literal sense. It is a correction facility and meant for rehabilitation and not condemning to a life of hell. I think a place of worship for those that chose to partake is a great start, with a emphasis on peace and prosperity.

 

But on a side note, jails in the USA is about big money. Large corporations take over the security of said facilities and charges the state a lot of money to secure them, and the kickbacks go straight into government officials pockets. It is not about correction. It's about getting as much people in there for whatever the charge is to steal tax payers money disguised as a correctional facility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually think prison can solve things sometimes. I grew up in a family of corrections employees. My dad was a warden and many of my other relatives were correctional officers. I have heard many stories from the warden himself about his inmates turning a new leaf. I don't know about all prisons, but the ones I am familiar with have religious programs for the inmates. They choose to participate because they have limited options for activities. Through this, many inmates have come to know God, and when released from prison they continued this new lifestyle. My uncle was proof of that. He was arrested for drinking and driving (this was not the only "bad" thing he did, it's just what he got arrested for). He spent a lot of time in prison. He participated in this program and began reading his bible and changed his ways. When he was released, he didn't go back to any of his bad habits, and we could all tell he had been impacted somehow. Two months later he died in a car wreck due to a cow running out on the highway. We are all thankful that he had spent some time incarcerated because we know he knew the Lord. Had he never gone to prison, I highly doubt he would have ever been a follower of Jesus. I know this kind of thing isn't true for all prisons or all inmates, so for some people it may solve nothing, but prison can change a life for the better. I also believe that it keeps the criminals from causing harm to the general public.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I don't think prison really solves anything when it comes to "fixing" the criminals, but it is the best choice when it comes to protecting the outside world from those people. I think we shouldn't focus on finding another type of institution to put criminals in, but to make prisons even better (which they are already becoming.) The US have the best prisons if I've correctly. In my country prisons are governmental and they're really really awful, the US did a great thing by privatizing them. Anyways, I think prisons should offer more psychological care and fight criminality behind bars as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prisons are part of a larger problem known as the Prison Industrial Complex. Prisons do not really solve anything in my humble opinion. Prisons are mostly about incarceration rather than rehabilitation. The prison system warehouses criminals which only breeds more criminals whereas the rehabilitation is not as important as the sentence in my view. Prisons do not solve anything contrary to what the popular opinion may be. Prisoners today have access to the same things they did on the street: Drugs, Guns, Sex, Alcohol.

 

Warehouse for criminals, that is exactly why I think it reached an absurd point. There is something like 2.5 million people incarcerated in the US. The rate of incarceration per 100,000 has more than quadrupled from its 1970s levels, and recently just kept skyrocketing throughout the 2000s, how does this solve the underlying structural problem of crime, anti-social, unethical behavior in society? It simply doesn't, an old solution to a new problem.

 

Not only does it fail to correct these individuals, but also fails to punish them. Prison may be a bad place for the average person but for the seasoned criminal it is just a place you go to that isn't that bad. Their thinking goes something along: "What's the worse that can happen? go to prison? So? At least in prison there is someone to care for you, in the street you're on your own."

 

The whole system should be rethought, it is totally absurd to continue sending millions of people to prison and expect this to improve the security situation, doing things at such an industrial scale just normalized crime.

Edited by CarlosTL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that prisons generally don't rehabilitate their inmates, but can anyone suggest a better alternative? At least prisons do get them off the streets for awhile and by doing so protect their potential victims.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest problem with our prison system here in the U.S., is that in many cases, the prison is more like a resort than it is a place of punishment. Prisoners get three square meals a day, hot showers, television, libraries, in some cases monitored computer and internet usage. They have exercise facilities, open yards for fresh air and exercise, religious services, and jobs, among other amenities, and in many cases, the prisoners are allowed to roam around within the prison, 'freely'. Prisoners don't have much to fear on the 'inside', (except for each other in some cases) so they have no problem going out and doing more crime when they're released to society. In fact, many really WANT to be returned to prison as they consider it to be home and it's far easier there than it is to recover normal life on the outside where they will be discriminated against in many ways. If prisons inspired more fear they would serve a more useful purpose. I don't mean that they should be inhumane and cruel, but they should be less resort-like and more closely resemble actual punishment.

 

Actually, it would probably help if former cons were to enter schools (not convicted child sexual predators of course) and deliver truthful messages to the kids about what it's really like when you get OUT of prison. How hard it is to get a job or a place to live, and how restricted your movements are. If children become aware of the hardships that ex-cons experience on the outside, they might be less likely to feel like crime is an okay alternative for getting what you want.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently, prison performs rwo functions. It protects you and I from known murderers, thieves, molestors, drug dealers, and drunks who have refused to stay sober. Secondly, it provides a miserable experience so that many people who get out strive not to reoffend so as not to experience that misery again.

 

As for rehabilitation, if one is a drug addict or alcoholic, the judge can mandate a prison based rehab program that must be completed prior to release. It is paid for by the tax payers and is free for prisonets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I was actually just listening to the radio where the host was going on a little rant about this very topic. His whole point was that we rarely see the "transformed prisoner" story that we all like to tell ourselves is how it works. It is locking people up, with other criminals, where they resort to survival mode and learn things they never would have learned otherwise, and then release then back on the streets. He had a little bit og a smug attitude but I cannot say that I really disagree with anything that he said, he was pretty much just stating it like it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that prisons generally don't rehabilitate their inmates, but can anyone suggest a better alternative? At least prisons do get them off the streets for awhile and by doing so protect their potential victims.

 

It's suppose to be a correctional facility where they should be torn down and built back up. To be honest they should turn it into a military style of boot camp. Tear everything they were before they enter and build them up to where they seem fit.

 

Other countries actually have rehabilitation programs in jail. In the USA it's the complete opposite. The worst of the worst goes to jail and they thrive. They should be given access to literature and programs to build them up. If you don't follow the path set forth, you go into solitary confinement.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what would happen if we were to have a similar prison system to say Norway or Denmark, the problem is though is that the U.S. has a much higher proportion of crime for our population even if you were to adjust for us having such a larger population

 

To punish or rehabilitate, what is the goal of correctional justice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that prison is great for the criminals who will never be safe in society. The problem is that you have criminals who's crimes are illegal but not dangerous to other people being put with the serial killers, the terrorist, the rapist, and other harder criminals. By default the smaller criminals have to become harder and meaner to survive jail. Jail essential trains lesser criminals into being harder ones. I'm not against hard punishment for breaking the law but I wonder if their time wouldn't be better spent performing hard labor to keep them out of the jail environment. There is a place in Colorado, or Wyoming, that has the inmates work a farm and learn how about farming and husbandry while they are in jail. It teaches them a trade and they can make money for their time. It's also a safer environment than the yard. Jail needs to reimagined so that it stops producing worse criminals than the ones that came in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It teaches them a trade and they can make money for their time.

 

What do you mean they can make money for their time? Isn't their time supposed to be restitution for the crimes? For example, in secular society when someone takes the life of another, society in all its wisdom deems the time of the guilty party worthy compensation for the life they took as if their time is so valuable. They are then made "slaves of the state". I'm just asking for clarification of whether or not you support slavery of the state? Or whether you think inmates should be paid for their services? As to my example, I believe if a person is found guilty of taking the life of another (murder), then no other restitution or punishment will do besides life for a life. Your thoughts?

 

God bless,

William

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.

 

Yes. A very heart warming experience in some cases. Some of the churches I have attended have members that were prior prison inmates. One in particular died in a motorcycle accident a few years ago. Thousands showed up for his funeral. He was the drummer of the worship band in church. These men turned their life around, they were transformed and renewed by the words spoken to them in the prison ministry.

 

On the other hand, I have met those that never were subjected to prison ministries, and in person they seemed to think they were being oppressed by the law. I think it is very common for the unrighteous to feel oppressed, whether by the law of man, religion, or by God.

 

God bless,

William

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, prison is a great boon to society PROVIDED that the person who is imprisoned is actually guilty of the crime that was committed. There is a concept of justice, mercy and forgiveness that is literally writ large throughout many of the books of the Bible, both in the Old and New Testaments. The first concept of the law was akin to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and that morphed into a more merciful view of justice as espoused by Jesus. In the encounter with Zacchaeus in Luke 19:1-10, Jesus remarked that “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Now, salvation came in response to the restitution that Zacchaeus promised to pay .. fourfold more than the money he extorted originally. In the same way, restitution and repayment for crimes committed is justice and a prerequisite for a peaceful and tolerant society. Some crimes are serious enough, that the person is a threat to society if he/she were to remain free so prison is the method used to make repayment for the crime(s) committed while safeguarding society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.

 

I'm one of them. So I know first hand how it feels. As I've said earlier, prison is suppose to be a correctional facility. They are to give us options on how to be better citizens. Some guys go in to jail and come out even worse as they feel like pent up dogs and they have no other job skill but to break the law again to get ahead in life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What do you mean they can make money for their time? Isn't their time supposed to be restitution for the crimes? For example, in secular society when someone takes the life of another, society in all its wisdom deems the time of the guilty party worthy compensation for the life they took as if their time is so valuable. They are then made "slaves of the state". I'm just asking for clarification of whether or not you support slavery of the state? Or whether you think inmates should be paid for their services? As to my example, I believe if a person is found guilty of taking the life of another (murder), then no other restitution or punishment will do besides life for a life. Your thoughts?

 

God bless,

William

 

I think it's also worth mentioning that most people tend to forget how recent of a trend this is. Back in history, you were only imprisoned while awaiting a sentence or if you were a high profile person (such as royalty, politician, military etc). Other than that, it was: a death sentence, exile or some form of public retribution. This idea that we're going to send criminals by the millions to prison with dozens of years sentence and with no other plan, and expect it to solve the security situation seems like utter negligence to me.

Edited by CarlosTL
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The prison ought to be a correctional facility. A place where people are sent in order to have their behaviour normalized so as to have the right attitude that will fit into any normal society. It is quite unfortunate that inmates when returning from prison become worsen than the time they left. This shouldn't be. It simply means the purpose of sending people to prison has been defeated. May God help our society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The prison ought to be a correctional facility. A place where people are sent in order to have their behaviour normalized so as to have the right attitude that will fit into any normal society. It is quite unfortunate that inmates when returning from prison become worsen than the time they left. This shouldn't be. It simply means the purpose of sending people to prison has been defeated. May God help our society.

 

 

Correct. From my understanding in the USA these prisons are actually named correctional facility, but most of the time because of overcrowding, there is no rehabilitation. I actually slept on the floor of a cell that was actually meant to hold 2 people, but threw 3 guys in there. The only rehabilitation there is, is in the form of a community television set. Most of the guys in there have no access to worship of any kind, and grow weary. When they eventually do get out, they come out lost and will get back into unlawfulness to make a living.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
Articles - News - Registration Terms