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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Origen

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(1) Post your topic here.

 

(2) Make sure you message the person you wish to debate and let him\her know.

 

(3) You must both agree on the topic.

 

(4) Also message a moderator and let that person know you want to debate.

 

(5) One side will take the affirmative proposition and the other the negative proposition.

 

(6) Each debate will consist of 3 rounds.

 

a. An affirmative constructive followed by a negative constructive

 

b. An affirmative rebuttal followed by negative rebuttal

 

c. Summations\Closing remarks

 

(7) Each debater will have 48 hours to respond to their opponent.

 

(8) Stay on topic.

 

(9) Moderation will be limited. No foul language. Other than that you are on your own, but remember you are Christians.

 

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(11) After the debate has ended anyone will be able to comment on the topic.

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I would be interested in debating the following:

1. The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer/worship. I will affirm. (It would be great if James Dunn was here to offer a rebuttal but anyone else will do).

https://www.amazon.com/Did-First-Chr...+worship+Jesus

2. The Bible teaches that Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before they were water baptized. I will affirm.

3. The Bible teaches that if a person today has not been baptized with the Holy Spirit then he/she is not a Christian. This event places a person into the body of Christ/the Church. I will affirm.

4. The Bible teaches that the Old Covenant command of obedience to the 7th day Sabbath is no longer binding upon the Christian. I will affirm.

5. The Bible teaches that a Christian wife is to fear her husband as her lord/master (unless he commands her to sin). I will affirm.

6. The New Testament teaches that homosexuality is a sin. I will affirm.

Edited by Faber
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Hi Faber, I have a question about your debate topic #3. Do you believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence that proves that this particular kind of baptism has truly happened, and if so, do you believe that anyone who is saved WILL (therefore) speak in tongues?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours in Christ,

David

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Hello David,

1 Corinthians 12:28 teaches that not all speak in tongues - but those who happened to have this particular gift are "in the church".

 

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Ahh, we agree. I was, for a time, involved with the AoG, and I still have a number of close friends who are members. Many (certainly not all) in the Charismatic movement believe that if one is truly saved, he/she WILL speak in tongues, period. On that point I cannot, of course, agree with many of my very well-meaning charismatic brethren for the very reason you just gave above. Glossa were a gift to some, not a necessity for all.

 

Perhaps someone else here at CF believes they are however (or perhaps better, is a strict/absolute cessationist). I would be interested in seeing a formal debate about that subject if there is a cessationist who would be willing to debate you (I haven't studied the subject, so the position I hold on cessationism is, at least for now, agnostic).

 

Yours in Christ,

David

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I also spent some time as a member of an AofG church and witnessed what I have come to understand as a misuse of the gift of tongues, or at the very least an ignorant use of it. Meaning, there were people within the church who while others were praying would "speak in tongues." Some have explained that it is their "spirit language", while others just considered it speaking in tongues. However, when looking at what they were doing through the lens of the New Testament I can only conclude that they were speaking gibberish, as no biblical purpose for it was being fulfilled. There was no one else in the room who didn't speak english that could suddenly understand what was being spoken, nor was it edifying anyone else in the group. One specific individual, I feel, was doing only because he had watched his parents do it as he was growing up and figured that was just what you do when you are praying in a group.

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Too much orthodoxy and not enough heretics for debates here.

 

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Too much orthodoxy and not enough heretics for debates here.

 

Sprinkle or dunk? ;)

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Hello David,

1 Corinthians 12:28 teaches that not all speak in tongues - but those who happened to have this particular gift are "in the church".

 

Any particular reason why you use happened rather than happen?

 

God bless,

William

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Ahh, we agree. I was, for a time, involved with the AoG, and I still have a number of close friends who are members. Many (certainly not all) in the Charismatic movement believe that if one is truly saved, he/she WILL speak in tongues, period. On that point I cannot, of course, agree with many of my very well-meaning charismatic brethren for the very reason you just gave above. Glossa were a gift to some, not a necessity for all.

 

Perhaps someone else here at CF believes they are however (or perhaps better, is a strict/absolute cessationist). I would be interested in seeing a formal debate about that subject if there is a cessationist who would be willing to debate you (I haven't studied the subject, so the position I hold on cessationism is, at least for now, agnostic).

 

Yours in Christ,

David

 

I believe you actually make up the largest group David. Lots of people are neither Charismatic, Pentecostal or strict Cessationist. The largest group is suspect middle ground. Why don't you represent this middle group and debate in a friendly manner? I haven't much debate experience on this subject matter, so I wouldn't mind taking the Cessationist position.

 

God bless,

William

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Too much orthodoxy and not enough heretics for debates here.

 

Based on reputation alone, I refuse to debate any Charismatic unless they first go through security and a metal detector.

 

God bless,

William

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Based on reputation alone, I refuse to debate any Charismatic unless they first go through security and a metal detector. I'm sure nobody would mind if a Cessationist just moves into the thread though?

God bless,

William

 

I wonder how one would type in 'tongues' if you were to debate a Charismatic. :)

 

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I wonder how one would type in 'tongues' if you were to debate a Charismatic. :)

 

Exactly, look at what Knotical wrote:

 

There was no one else in the room who didn't speak english that could suddenly understand what was being spoken, nor was it edifying anyone else in the group.

 

Why would the Holy Spirit interrupt Himself from the pulpit only to speak a different language requiring a translator to speak to those He already had a direct line of communication with?

 

Seems irrational to me.

 

If they do begin speaking tongues and a translator begins, should we write these things down and add what is said to the end of Scripture?

 

God bless,

William

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I wonder how one would type in 'tongues' if you were to debate a Charismatic. :)

 

Wingdings

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I wonder how one would type in 'tongues' if you were to debate a Charismatic. :)
Let's all say it together "γλῶσσαι."

 

Edited by Origen
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Let all say it together "γλῶσσαι."

 

My wife once pressed the wrong button on her phone and when she talked into it, the text messages all came out in Chinese characters.

So I guess it IS possible.

 

(I better save that link to Google Translate just in case.) :)

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Let's all say it together "γλῶσσαι."

 

It says "tongues" ... W00T!!! I have the gift of translation. ;)

(Won't all my Pentacostal friends be so jealous ... which IS what the Body is all about, right? Charismata one-upsmanship.) :)

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I believe you actually make up the largest group David. Lots of people are neither Charismatic, Pentecostal or strict Cessationist. The largest group is suspect middle ground. Why don't you represent this middle group and debate in a friendly manner? I haven't much debate experience on this subject matter, so I wouldn't mind taking the Cessationist position.

 

God bless,

William

 

Hi William, I like the idea of trying to hold the "middle ground" in a polarized debate subject like this one. That way, all I have to do is say, "yeah, I can see that", to WHATEVER the two of you end up saying to each other, and I'll win the debate :p

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5. The Bible teaches that a Christian wife is to fear her husband as her lord/master (unless he commands her to sin). I will affirm.

 

@Faber

It is probably a mistake, but hardly my first. Challenge accepted. I will negate.

 

(So what exactly happens next?)

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@Faber

It is probably a mistake, but hardly my first. Challenge accepted. I will negate.

 

(So what exactly happens next?)

Once Faber agrees, and the topic set, then we can begin.

 

 

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@Faber

@atpollard

As pointed out above, there will be only three rounds. Each person will have 48 hours to respond. If one of you does not respond within 48 hours, then the debate will be closed. However, the other person will be given a chance to sum up with closing remarks.

 

The debate will be made into a sticky. No other posts will be allowed. If anyone other the debaters post, it will be deleted. Only after the last round will anyone be allowed to post.

 

Once the two of have your topic statement hammered out, message me. I will then start the thread for the two of you.

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