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William

Even Arminians Believe that the Natual Man Has No Free Will

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...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). (Council of Orange: Canon 6)

 

If the natural man has a free will to believe the gospel, then why does he need grace? If his will is naturally free then it would do away with the need for grace altogether. Therefore, anyone who acknowledges that even a LITTLE grace is necessary to believe, by default, acknowledges that man in his natural state has no moral ability to come to Christ. We all know that Jesus himself says (and I quote) "no one can come to Me unless God grants it" (John 6:65) and "the Spirit gives life (quickens) the flesh counts for nothing." (John 6:63). And Paul says "...no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3)

 

If you agree with the above statements from the Bible, then by definition, you already agree that man (left to himself) has no free will to come to Christ. You agree that his intentions are so sold to evil ... that his will and affections are under such bondage that he would never come apart from the grace of Christ. Therefore to teach that the natural man has a free will actually overthrows the gospel ... it is precisely because man is in bondage that he needs Christ to set him free." (John 8:34, 36)

 

So we have already ESTABLISHED that man has no free will. We all agree on this, EVEN ARMINIANS. The question really is what is the nature of God's grace? Is it effectual or does it merely help the sinner? Jesus answers this in John 6:63 when he declares: "All the the Father gives to me will come to me..."

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You haven't established anything William, except that you will continue to post threads like this but never DEAL with the actual refutations. I write this of my own free will just as I chose Jesus as my savior with my own free will.

 

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm

 

 

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Stan, you have already wasted too much of my time. I do not see you creating your own threads, and quite frankly do not find engagement with you to be beneficial. I see people have taken time to respond to you as well as I today, only for you to reject what was posted within minutes. What you consider discussion and debate, I see as nothing more than argumentativeness. This website is Protestant: Catholic, Evangelical, and Reformed. You are obviously a guest in that format, and I understand your doctrinal positions are nowhere to be found but in Heresy Hill. The articles posted here are topic starters. If you wish to post your own articles then by all means do so in the appropriate category, except for the Reformed Theology section (Only Reformed may start Threads). You are welcome and encouraged to post in Christforums' Hersey Hill as mentioned to you before.

 

God bless,

William

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I'm wasting your time? I see, so you just want to post biased articles but NOT deal or support them? What exactly do you think a DISCUSSION forum is? I do try to initiate discussion but it seems you just don't discuss and start NEW thread with the same TULIP doctrine over and over again. I guess I should have followed my original instinct and stayed off here, because you don't want to discuss and apparently neither do the regulars here.

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A two hour response was met with a few minute rejection by you. You can't tell me you took the time to consider the scriptural proof texts. You think typing out your pre-programmed argumentative responses without thinking through your presuppositions are discussions? You have consistently used threads to support the heresy of your own choosing. That is welcome here at Christforum's Heresy Hill. You say "I agree and understand", then you disagree and contradict yourself in your very next statement. Either you're deliberately contradicting yourself in order to frustrate others or as other members have suggested are just plain ignorant. Scripture doesn't contradict itself, but interpretations do. Every time you run into a logical contradiction you either align your interpretations to your heretical doctrinal positions (which in themselves are contradictory) or just ignore the contradictions. Then you have the audacity to accuse others of doing what you yourself make a habitual practice of.

 

If you decide to leave, feel free to return to Heresy Hill at Christforums. You're welcome at Christforums' Heresy Hill, and encouraged to post.

 

God bless,

William

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