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jahanzeb ali qureshi

What should be our faith in God and this world Being christian?

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Yesterday I was thinking that what should be our faith in God and this world being Christian? How should we live our life according to the orders of our God? Tell me about the things that are allowed and disallowed?

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This will be quite a long list so I'll contribute some and others can contribute some.

 

Instructions from Christ in Matthew 5:

  • Don't swear by anything, let your "yes" mean "yes" and your "no" mean "no". (i.e. "I swear on my mother's grave.)
  • Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
  • Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' time or you shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
  • Do not be angry with your brother or you are in danger of judgement.
  • Whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire.
  • Do not seek forgiveness before first being reconciled with your brother.
  • Whoever looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
  • Whoever divorces their wife for any reason other than fornication will be held responsible with her for her adultery. (See next.)
  • Whoever marries her that is divorced has committed adultery. (See prior.)

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This will be quite a long list so I'll contribute some and others can contribute some.

 

Instructions from Christ in Matthew 5:

  • Don't swear by anything, let your "yes" mean "yes" and your "no" mean "no". (i.e. "I swear on my mother's grave.)
  • Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
  • Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' time or you shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
  • Do not be angry with your brother or you are in danger of judgement.
  • Whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire.
  • Do not seek forgiveness before first being reconciled with your brother.
  • Whoever looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
  • Whoever divorces their wife for any reason other than fornication will be held responsible with her for her adultery. (See next.)
  • Whoever marries her that is divorced has committed adultery. (See prior.)

 

 

Hello Trist,

 

Lemme you direct you to a little more of a completed list: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...-old-testament

  • James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

God bless,

William

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Yesterday I was thinking that what should be our faith in God and this world being Christian? How should we live our life according to the orders of our God? Tell me about the things that are allowed and disallowed?

 

We have to understand that we are sinners and there's nothing we can do that will be good enough before God (Rom. 3:10-12; 6:23). If there were, then Jesus didn't need to die. But Jesus who is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) died on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead (1Corinthians 15:1-4). That is the gospel message. By trusting in Christ and believing in the gospel, we are declared right before God by faith (Romans 4:1-5; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-9). In other words, when we receive Christ by faith (John 1:12), the righteousness of God is given to us (Philippians 3:9). This is called justification. Justification is a legal standing before God. It means that the one who has trusted in Christ by faith, is now declared legally righteous according to the law. Since the law includes loving God and loving our neighbors, those parts of the law must be fulfilled perfectly. It was Jesus who fulfilled the law without failure. So, we receive by faith what Christ did - which includes loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, everything we need is found in Jesus. - Matt Slick

 

What Trist is pointing out to you Jahanzeb, should bring you to confess your sins (and scare the bajeebers out of you). The Law points us to the Gospel where we are Justified, and the Gospel points us back to the Law to let us know our Christian duty.

 

God bless,

William

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Hello Trist,

 

Lemme you direct you to a little more of a completed list: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...-old-testament

  • James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

God bless,

William

 

James was admonishing those whom had it in their minds that they still lived in the era of condemnation. The subject was that of Leviticus 19:15 KJV. Many old laws are obsolete. (Ephesians 2:14-15 KJV) However, it could be said, and I would agree, that to personally uphold many old laws could be seen by God as a delightful sign of obedience.

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James was admonishing those whom had it in their minds that they still lived in the era of condemnation. The subject was that of Leviticus 19:15 KJV. Many old laws are obsolete. (Ephesians 2:14-15 KJV) However, it could be said, and I would agree, that to personally uphold many old laws could be seen by God as a delightful sign of obedience.

 

G'evening Trist,

 

If any old laws are obsolete it is because Christ fulfilled them. God requires "PERFECT" obedience of the Law, and is why Jesus died for His elect. If you're relying on the Law for salvation or performance based salvation even loving God with all your strength, heart and mind is impossible, let alone your neighbor, enemies etc. God requires perfect love, again, if we were "able" and therefore righteous then Jesus died needlessly. Those who neglect some and ambitiously honor others (neighbors) do not love their neighbors. For they do not obey God if they remove from the commandments of God those things that are not convenient for them. Rather they are guilty of breaking the whole law, even though they observe part of it.

 

God does not accept "partial righteousness". Now I am not saying that all sins are equal, but because he who breaks one small part of the law, offends the majority of the given law.

 

God bless,

William

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The greatest commandment is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind. And our neighbor as ourselves.

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believeth in Him will not perish but having everlasting life."

 

Philippians 4:8 is one guideline for Christian living.

 

Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God he Father through Him."

 

The Christian life is not based on a list of things to do or not to do. It Is based on our relationship to God through Jesus Christ. What we can do to please Him. We are not living under the Law any longer. That was fulfilled in the death, burial and bodily resurrection Of Jesus Christ. The New Testament.

 

The Law was given to point us to our need for a Savior. No one can keep all the laws / perfection. It's impossible to achieve perfection. We Are responsible to God for our actions. The Holy Spirit acts as our 'conscience'.

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No one can keep all the laws / perfection. It's impossible to achieve perfection.

 

Impossible by your own willpower. (Matthew 19:26 KJV)

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That verse says "But Jesus looked at them and said ,"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." The context goes up to vs 16 "Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

 

So he's told that the only One who is good is God -- but if he wanted to enter into life, keep the commandments. He replied that he already has done those things that were listed -- what more could he do? So he was told -- if he wants to be perfect, go and sell everything he had and give to the poor and then come back and follow Jesus. But the young man had great possessions and didn't want to part with it. So, he was sad and turned away.

 

Then Jesus said to his disciples that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

Then they asked in vs 25 "Who then can be saved?" and then vs 26 "But Jesus looked at them and said to them,"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." It's talking about salvation.

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There is no hidden meaning there. If the young man sold his possessions and followed him he would be perfect just as Jesus said. Through God it is possible to overcome all of our desires.

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No hidden meaning suggested -- simply that the 25th verse -- "Who then can be saved" is being answered in that next verse.

 

We are human -- we have human desires -- some of us experience more than others in various areas of life. Your comment 'overcome All of our desires' -- suggests possible perfection in This life. That would suggest potential pride in what -- even with God's help -- we've been able to overcome. Pride is as much a sin as stealing.

 

As a young man, from your picture, you have God-given desires -- and He gives us guidelines For those desires. God has not created us as robots or puppets -- but as relational / social beings. So why would God give us the desire To overcome all of those desires.

 

Once we are in glorified bodies -- with Jesus Christ -- we Will be different. But, until then.

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So why would God give us the desire To overcome all of those desires.

 

Just dropping this here for reference. I think this speaks of how our natural desires are overcome when we were enemies to God and hostile towards Him. You spoke of God given desires, Sue, and I agree, those God given desires by such example as to search Him out are the fruit of Regeneration: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...eneration-mean

 

God bless,

William

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There is no hidden meaning there. If the young man sold his possessions and followed him he would be perfect just as Jesus said. Through God it is possible to overcome all of our desires.

 

The man was guilty of idolatry. Salvation is monergism. Having said that, the rich young ruler exhibited no fruits of regeneration. Ezekiel 36:25-27 states:

  • 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.[a]

With man these things are impossible (synergism), but with God all things are possible (monergism). Ezekiel 36:25-27 is what Nicodemus should have already known, as the Ordo Salutis is the same throughout the OT and NT. In other words, Nicodemus, you should have known this as a teacher of Israel (John 3:10).

 

Again, salvation is monergistic, from beginning to end God is the author of salvation. Now some may call us (Calvinist) a robot, but they fail to see that man is either a slave to sin or to God. I'd rather be a "robot" programmed by God rather than a robot programmed to sin (our natural disposition).

 

God bless,

William

 

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The terms that you had high-lighted -- maybe you meant for me to click into them -- I haven't, yet. But will share with you that at the moment of salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into us to make us new creation in Christ. Everyone is born with a 'nature' a sinful one. Our propensity is to sin. It is not our 'natural' nature to be good people. Some people are naturally better people than others. But Everyone Will sin in some way or another during their life. Because that's the way we are -- natural sinners. So -- at the moment of salvation we receive the New nature. We don't loose the Old nature -- we Do gain the New nature. That is reflected in the fact that there is an inner battle that is within the believer. And that is shown by Paul in Romans 7 and 8. Trying to follow the law would be very frustrating. But through the cross --we have liberty in Christ. So - which nature do we feed. Sometimes we end up 'feeding' our old nature and sometimes we feed our New nature. So --more and more Bible and prayer will strength our New nature. Our desire as a believer is to live the Christian life -- to follow through with doing the Good thing. But the old nature is still there to thwart our efforts. Satan is still there tempting us -- but with the help of the Holy Spirit we don't Have to do it. I Can do the right thing.

 

Well -- we're Not robots --we Do have access to salvation. God is the only One who knows who will or won't accept Him. We have choices to make. Believers have choices to make. Sometimes it feels like the more we want to have time to read God's Word , the more things come up to distract us. That's simply satan's getting in the way. So - we decide to do it Now. And we feel refreshed or convicted by something we've read. Either way -- God is working in our lives.

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Well -- we're Not robots --we Do have access to salvation. God is the only One who knows who will or won't accept Him. We have choices to make. Believers have choices to make. Sometimes it feels like the more we want to have time to read God's Word , the more things come up to distract us. That's simply satan's getting in the way. So - we decide to do it Now. And we feel refreshed or convicted by something we've read. Either way -- God is working in our lives.

 

G'evening Sue,

 

I think we all probably have at least a slightly different definition of what nature means. For example, if nature is synonymous with the way Ezekiel uses heart, then we only have the new nature...

  • "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." (36:26)

 

On the other hand, if we consider the "flesh" or the "old man" as synonymous for "nature", then there are other scriptures which would make us think there are two...

  • "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (Romans 7:25)
  • "that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit," (Ephesians 4:22)

 

As a Calvinist I agree with your first paragraph for the most part. Lemme clarify what we believe in an analogy. At least you'll understand our doctrine if you do not already know. Calvinist do not refute having a "choice". You'll only find that among the hyper-Calvinist camp. We disagree as to man having an "autonomous or libertarian will". Nobody goes against their nature. For example, if I ask you to flap your arms like a bird and reach the heavens, you are faced with a "choice" to try or not to try, you may even "choose" to try, but you'll never reach the heavens. You are grounded in your human nature. And so it is with our sin nature, we may strive and try to reach holiness but we'll never achieve this due to our sin nature (original sin). This is apart from the ongoing work of Sanctification.

 

Where monergism (Reformed/Calvinist) differ from synergism (Arminian, works related and performance related salvation) is that we believe regeneration precedes faith. By an act of Grace Ephesians chapter 2 man receives salvation as a gift. Ephesians 2:5, "even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—" states the timing of our regeneration. When we were dead, and dead men can do nothing. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast." In other words, or how I like to state my premise, is you have been saved by grace, then I ask the question, what of faith, Ephesians 2:8 answers this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works.

 

In monergism the ordo salutis begins with Election. From beginning to end salvation is a gift from God alone, and any claim to have contributed to salvation attempts to rob God of His due Glory and is nothing more than "pride". Thinking that we are in some way good enough where Isaiah 64:6 states that all our deeds have become like filthy rags, and Romans 3 where it states that no man is righteous, no not one....

 

Back to autonomy or libertarian will, in Gen 3:5, when Satan, disguised as a serpent, said to Eve, “For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Here are the double lies being offered to Eve springing out of the same principle behind his botched coup attempt; first, that she would be like gods, and thus independent, able to rule over herself apart from God, and secondly, there is not one God, but many gods; each is sovereign over himself or herself. - This is an autonomous will that Calvinist reject.

 

Matter of fact, contrary to the Pelagian or Arminian view where men can will themselves to Christ, John 6:44 states our doctrine which is known by the Acronym TULIP. Our soteriology is learned through these five doctrine, Total Inability or Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

 

All five doctrines are actually seen here in John 6:44:

 

No man can come to me (T)

Lest the Father (U)

Draw them to me (I)

Then I will raise them up (L)

On the last day. (P)

 

As a Reformed Presbyterian my confession comes from the Westminster Confession of Faith which says,

 

WCF Chapter 13

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection,[1] by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them:[2] the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,[3] and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified;[4] and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,[5] to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.[6]

 

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man;[7] yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part;[8] whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.[9]

 

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail;[10] yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome;[11] and so, the saints grow in grace,[12] perfecting holiness in the fear of God.[13]

 

Scripture references

[1] 1CO 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. ACT 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. PHI 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; ROM 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[2] JOH 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. EPH 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. 2TH 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

 

[3] ROM 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[4] GAL 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. ROM 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[5] COL 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness. EPH 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[6] 2CO 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. HEB 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

 

[7] 1TH 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[8] 1JO 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. ROM 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. PHI 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

 

[9] GAL 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 1PE 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.

 

[10] ROM 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[11] ROM 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 1JO 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. EPH 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[12] 2PE 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2CO 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[13] 2CO 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

I just thought to clarify my doctrinal perspectives, Sue.

 

God bless,

William

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Referring to Ephesians 2 -- maybe we are saying the same thing but in different ways. My husband graduated from a 5 point Calvinist Bible college in Iowa -- FBBC -- so this thread has brought up some interesting conversation.

 

So -- Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, (yes) ....But, God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

 

The process of salvation -- several things are happening at the same time -- the Holy Spirit convicts us -- draws us -- and at some point - we Do respond in a positive way. For by grace through faith. Maybe it's just that I see some of this as splitting hairs that might not really need to be split. It's great to understand the various steps -- part of college training. For me -- it was a lot of 'head knowledge' that simply needed to get into my heart.

 

In my own experience, I was a young teen and I felt strong conviction --but I resisted. I thought I had to go forward - walk down the aisle in church and talk with someone in order to be 'led to the Lord'. But a year or so later, after going to church camp and listening to the other campers in my room tell how / who led them to the Lord -- I was ready with a made up story -- saying that my folks had led me to the Lord. But the testimony time was over before I'd 'have' to make up and tell that story. So then another camper in the room stayed behind and talked to the counselor and later shared that she'd accepted Christ. And I thought -- Why didn't I think of doing that. (I clearly wasn't ready) But then the counselor found that none of us had been baptized. So that next Sunday, she had us go forward for baptism. So I thought I'd better go along with the group, so I was baptized. The next summer some of the kids were doubting their salvation and made sure of it. And they were re-baptized. In the meantime -- pastor assured us that we could accept Jesus Christ as Savior right where we were -- or Anyplace for that matter. As long as we meant it in our heart, God would hear our prayer no matter where we were. So I did and felt an inner peace that hadn't been there before. So I knew that salvation Worked. And after that went forward by myself from the 2nd row from the front and was re-baptized along with several other young people. And I knew that That was the right thing to do . There's an order salvation 1st and then baptism. Baptism is telling every what has already taken place inside.

 

Which indicates that conviction Can be resisted but God's persistence Does wait on us.

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Referring to Ephesians 2 -- maybe we are saying the same thing but in different ways. My husband graduated from a 5 point Calvinist Bible college in Iowa -- FBBC -- so this thread has brought up some interesting conversation.

 

So -- Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, (yes) ....But, God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

 

The process of salvation -- several things are happening at the same time -- the Holy Spirit convicts us -- draws us -- and at some point - we Do respond in a positive way. For by grace through faith. Maybe it's just that I see some of this as splitting hairs that might not really need to be split. It's great to understand the various steps -- part of college training. For me -- it was a lot of 'head knowledge' that simply needed to get into my heart.

 

In my own experience, I was a young teen and I felt strong conviction --but I resisted. I thought I had to go forward - walk down the aisle in church and talk with someone in order to be 'led to the Lord'. But a year or so later, after going to church camp and listening to the other campers in my room tell how / who led them to the Lord -- I was ready with a made up story -- saying that my folks had led me to the Lord. But the testimony time was over before I'd 'have' to make up and tell that story. So then another camper in the room stayed behind and talked to the counselor and later shared that she'd accepted Christ. And I thought -- Why didn't I think of doing that. (I clearly wasn't ready) But then the counselor found that none of us had been baptized. So that next Sunday, she had us go forward for baptism. So I thought I'd better go along with the group, so I was baptized. The next summer some of the kids were doubting their salvation and made sure of it. And they were re-baptized. In the meantime -- pastor assured us that we could accept Jesus Christ as Savior right where we were -- or Anyplace for that matter. As long as we meant it in our heart, God would hear our prayer no matter where we were. So I did and felt an inner peace that hadn't been there before. So I knew that salvation Worked. And after that went forward by myself from the 2nd row from the front and was re-baptized along with several other young people. And I knew that That was the right thing to do . There's an order salvation 1st and then baptism. Baptism is telling every what has already taken place inside.

 

Which indicates that conviction Can be resisted but God's persistence Does wait on us.

 

Hi Sue,

 

Granted, some events in the Ordo Salutis can occur simultaneously. And, Calvinist differentiate between "common" and "effectual or irresistible grace". For example, the sixth chapter of the Gospel of John contains three quotations from Jesus that summarize the view that no one can obey God unless God first regenerates the heart:

  • John 6:37, 39: "All that the Father gives me will come to me.... And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."
  • John 6:44-45: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.... Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me."
  • John 6:65: "[N]o one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

 

And the statement of Paul is said to confirm that those whom God effectually calls necessarily come to full salvation: "Those whom [God] predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified" (Romans 8:28, 30).

 

God bless,

William

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