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Origen

Poll Question: ESV Permanent Text Edition

Poll Question: ESV Permanent Text Edition  

4 members have voted

  1. 1. Poll Question: ESV Permanent Text Edition

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Crossway has recently announced that the ESV "will remain unchanged in all future editions."

 

http://web.archive.org/web/201608200...ut/pt-changes/

 

This has led to a great deal of criticism and debate concerning the announcement. It should also be pointed out that at the same time as the announcement the ESV made 52 word changes in the text. The vast majority of these changes really don't matter but a few have come under fire.

 

Anyway, what you think of a ESV permanent text?

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[h=1]ESV Permanent Text Edition (2016)[/h] [h=2]Word Changes (52 Total)[/h] Beginning in the summer of 2016, the text of the ESV Bible will remain unchanged in all future editions printed and published by Crossway—in much the same way that the King James Version (KJV) has remained unchanged ever since the final KJV text was established almost 250 years ago (in 1769). This decision was made unanimously by the Crossway Board of Directors and the ESV Translation Oversight Committee. All future Crossway editions of the ESV, therefore, will contain the Permanent Text of the ESV Bible—unchanged throughout the life of the copyright, in perpetuity.

 

The creation of the ESV Permanent Text represents the culmination of more than seventeen years of comprehensive work by the Translation Oversight Committee, as authorized and initiated by the Crossway Board in 1998. (For additional information about the ESV Bible translation, read more about the translation philosophy). The decision now to create the Permanent Text of the ESV was made with equally great care—so that people who love the ESV Bible can have full confidence in the ESV, knowing that it will continue to be published as is, without being changed, for the rest of their lives, and for generations to come.

 

The number of changes in the new ESV Permanent Text is limited to 52 words (out of more than 775,000 total words in ESV Bible) found in 29 verses (out of more than 31,000 verses in the ESV). The guiding principle for creating the ESV Permanent Text was to make only a very limited number of final changes to the ESV text, where such changes represented a substantial improvement in the precision, accuracy, and understanding of the ESV.

 

In making these final changes, the Crossway Board of Directors and the Translation Oversight Committee thus affirm that their highest responsibility is to "guard the deposit entrusted to you" (1 Timothy 6:20)—to guard and preserve the very words of God as translated in the ESV Bible; to do so in full awareness of the fearful responsibility that this sacred trust entails; to understand that this can be accomplished only in complete dependence on the Lord's grace, mercy, strength, providence, and wisdom; for the glory alone of our triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Thus, with the work of translating the ESV Bible now completed, we would give our work back into the hands of the Lord; for him to use and to bless and to accomplish his purposes (Isaiah 55:11); for the sake of his church and the gospel, to "the ends of the earth" (Acts 13:47)—knowing that "the word of the Lord remains forever" (1 Peter 1:25).

 

It is within the framework of this commitment, then, that we are pleased to provide the following list of the final changes to the ESV Bible text, thereby establishing the Permanent Text of the ESV Bible, unchanged forever, in perpetuity:

 

[TABLE=class: pt]

[TR]

Permanent Text Verses Previous Text Verses [/TR]

[TR]

Genesis 3:16 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.[/TD]

[TD]Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Genesis 4:7 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.[/TD]

[TD]Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Exodus 38:11 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]And for the north side there were hangings of a hundred cubits; their twenty pillars and their twenty bases were of bronze, but the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.[/TD]

[TD]And for the north side there were hangings of a hundred cubits, their twenty pillars, their twenty bases were of bronze, but the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Numbers 14:42 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Do not go up, for the LORD is not among you, lest you be struck down before your enemies.[/TD]

[TD]Do not go up, for the Lord is not among you, lest you be struck down before your enemies.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Judges 6:13 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]And Gideon said to him, "Please, my lord, if the LORD is with us, why then has all this happened to us?[/TD]

[TD]And Gideon said to him, "Please, sir, if the LORD is with us, why then has all this happened to us?[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

2 Samuel 23:34 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Eliphelet the son of Ahasbai of Maacah, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite,[/TD]

[TD]Eliphelet the son of Ahasbai of Maacah, Eliam the son of Ahithophel of Gilo,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

1 Kings 8:48 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]if they repent with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies,[/TD]

[TD]if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their enemies,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

2 Kings 20:18 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]And some of your own sons, who will come from you, whom you will father, shall be taken away,[/TD]

[TD]And some of your own sons, who shall be born to you, shall be taken away,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

2 Chronicles 6:38 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]if they repent with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity to which they were carried captive,[/TD]

[TD]if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their captivity to which they were carried captive,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

2 Chronicles 13:9 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Whoever comes for ordination with a young bull or seven rams becomes a priest of what are not gods.[/TD]

[TD]Whoever comes for ordination with a young bull or seven rams becomes a priest of what are no gods.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Esther 9:32 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]The command of Esther confirmed these practices of Purim, and it was recorded in writing.[/TD]

[TD]The command of Queen Esther confirmed these practices of Purim, and it was recorded in writing.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Psalm 18:48 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]who rescued me from my enemies; yes, you exalted me above those who rose against me; you delivered me from the man of violence.[/TD]

[TD]who delivered me from my enemies; yes, you exalted me above those who rose against me; you rescued me from the man of violence.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Proverbs 13:16 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Every prudent man acts with knowledge, but a fool flaunts his folly.[/TD]

[TD]In everything the prudent acts with knowledge, but a fool flaunts his folly.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Isaiah 2:3 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.[/TD]

[TD]For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Isaiah 10:5 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Woe to Assyria, the rod of my anger; the staff in their hands is my fury![/TD]

[TD]Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger; the staff in their hands is my fury![/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Ezekiel 40:14 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]He measured also the vestibule, sixty cubits. And around the vestibule of the gateway was the court.[/TD]

[TD]He measured also the vestibule, twenty cubits. And around the vestibule of the gateway was the court.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Hosea 13:14 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol; I shall redeem them from Death.[/TD]

[TD]Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from Death?[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Micah 4:3 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide disputes for strong nations far away;[/TD]

[TD]He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away;[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Matthew 4:24 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, those having seizures, and paralytics, and he healed them.[/TD]

[TD]So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Matthew 17:15 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]"Lord, have mercy on my son, for he has seizures and he suffers terribly.[/TD]

[TD]"Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Luke 7:36 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]One of the Pharisees asked him to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and reclined at table.[/TD]

[TD]One of the Pharisees asked him to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Luke 22:44 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]And being in agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.[/TD]

[TD]And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Luke 24:47 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.[/TD]

[TD]and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Luke 24:50 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]And he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.[/TD]

[TD]Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

John 5:22 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,[/TD]

[TD]The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Ephesians 1:5 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.[/TD]

[TD]he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Ephesians 3:1 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—[/TD]

[TD]For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Colossians 1:11 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy,[/TD]

[TD]May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

James 2:10 [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.[/TD]

[TD]For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

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I posted the above just so the page isn't lost in history, because the link you shared Origen was captured by "way back machine". It is a snap shot of a web page no longer published.

 

God bless,

William

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I posted the above just so the page isn't lost in history, because the link you shared Origen was captured by "way back machine". It is a snap shot of a web page no longer published.

 

God bless,

William

Thanks William but you did not vote.

 

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Thanks William but you did not vote.

 

Just curious... . what are your thoughts on the subject? I was thinking that perhaps Crossway is considering a new Bible translation? Why would they commit to no longer revising the ESV?

 

God bless,

William

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Just curious... . what are your thoughts on the subject? I was thinking that perhaps Crossway is considering a new Bible translation? Why would they commit to no longer revising the ESV?
I really don't know. It has left a lot of people scratching their heads.

 

One reason might be stability. People really don't like it when the text is constantly be modified, changed. They hint at that in their announcement.

 

all future editions printed and published by Crossway—in much the same way that the King James Version (KJV) has remained unchanged ever since the final KJV text was established almost 250 years ago (in 1769).

 

The decision now to create the Permanent Text of the ESV was made with equally great care—so that people who love the ESV Bible can have full confidence in the ESV, knowing that it will continue to be published as is, without being changed, for the rest of their lives, and for generations to come.

 

to guard and preserve the very words of God as translated in the ESV Bible

 

Is it possible a new translation is on its way? Sure. Publishing is a business. That is one reason, but by no means the only reason, why there are so many translations. Each publisher owns the right to their translation(s) and licenses it to others.

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a) I'm sick of new translations. It's a money making racket, contributing to the demise of the English language and mental dullness of the modern Christian. b) As no translation is perfect, the ESV remaining as it is is fine by me.

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I'm a NASB user principally. I memorized using the 71/77' version and I still like the way it reads in many/most cases, but I also appreciate the scholarship of the 95' update and the reasons some of the changes were made. What I don't like is their attempt to bury the 77' version. As long as all versions are still available, I think the occasional update in translation for the right reasons is a good thing (I've never been happy with the NIV's updates and still use their 84' version exclusively). I'm glad that Logos gives me access to both of the principle versions of the NASB, and I hope the same will be true for the ESV. Of course, they can lock in this latest translation and simply call the next "upgrade" the NESV ;)

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I'm glad that Logos gives me access to both of the principle versions of the NASB, and I hope the same will be true for the ESV. Of course, they can lock in this latest translation and simply call the next "upgrade" the NESV
Tell what you think about Logos. Which modules do you own?

 

 

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I love what Logos allows me to do in comparison to what I was able to do with books alone. Searches and word studies are particularly amazing. Since I've only owned Logos Bible Software however, I'm unable to compare it to other Bible software, and since I own such a large library in Logos now, I will never use anything else.

 

As for the "module", I'm at what they're calling the Silver Level now. I got Logos years ago, partially to help my senior pastor with the technology end of it (he loves technology, but figuring out how to use it is not his forte). I also own hundreds of books which are not included in Silver, but then again, I've been a Logos user since the late 90's.

 

I also love how simple it is to reinstall it (when I get a new computer or format a hard drive or something along those lines), and how easy it is to update. Basically, they take care of it all.

 

I also like the fact that it is very, very stable and, along with my Adobe products, remains my favorite software to date. I also like the fact that it seems to 'think' like I do .. or perhaps I've learned to think like it does. At any rate, it allows me to make very detailed studies in a great economy of time, which is its most important feature to me right now.

 

Logos upgrades have been excellent ones as well. Then again, they do have a lot of $$ to make sure their products continue to function perfectly and remain on the cutting edge. That said, the one big downside is its cost. They charge for everything, including upgrades to the search engine, which they said they would never do back in the beginning, if memory serves. (what they do now is upgrade the "base" search engine for free, and charge for the bells and whistles) So Logos is an expensive "ride" to be sure.

 

Did you have any specific questions about it?

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I should also add that their staff and the help that their sales, service and tech folks provide is truly first rate. They are VERY good at communicating (I don't believe I've ever been put on hold for more than a few seconds or waited long at all for an answer via email) and they've always been able to provide me with the help and answers that I need. So the prices may seem steep at times, but I believe that you do get a LOT for the money you spend.

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Did you have any specific questions about it?
I was just curious. I use Accordance. I know Logos has excellent Greek and Hebrew sources. I wish I could afford both.

 

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I just about fell over after looking at the highest edition of Logos software for Reformed Theology. It is outside my financial boundaries at this moment. Maybe one day I can afford 15 near 100 dollar payments. I'll wait until some kind of coupon or discount after I pay down this sites debt to my credit card. I'm actually within 6 months of accomplishing that goal.

 

I heard Logos is THE software for organization and quick searches in your pick of theological camps.

 

God bless,

William

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Bad Idea.

 

I have a question about some of their last generation of changes, but no real problems ... I just think that there are always new manuscript discoveries that hold the potential to change a word and language drift that makes updating words desirable.

 

How many words in the KJV no longer mean the same thing, so reading the KJV bible requires the reader to have a specialized (archaic) vocabulary. That does not seem like a feature to be desired in the word of God.

 

If I find a first century Gospel in a tomb that correctly locates the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery, I'd like the option to update the Bible to reflect that rather than say "Oops, we froze the scripture to prevent future changes."

[OK, I like hyperbole and extreme examples. Sue me. :) ]

Edited by atpollard
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Bad Idea. (my computer will not let me vote ... probably the ISP or server 'protecting' me).

 

We made several changes to the site a night or two ago. Clear your browser's cache if the site is loading slow, and if you can't edit your posts or vote etc.

 

God bless,

William

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We made several changes to the site a night or two ago. Clear your browser's cache if the site is loading slow, and if you can't edit your posts or vote etc.

God bless,

William

Thanks, that fixed it and I voted.

 

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