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peppermint

An independent Baptist pastor speaks out against Hebrew Roots and Sacred Name advocacy.

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I thought I recognized this "preacher!"

"You shall know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:16

I recognized him by the condescending tone and his "1611 King James Bible" being the "end of God's word." Everything else he said, correct or incorrect goes out the window!

Steven J Anderson, I listened to him (on YouTube) slander a Godly man (Paul Washer) for preaching repentance, and how God's Word here in the west has become so watered down, it doesn't even resemble Christianity anymore. Paul Washer in fact reminds me of the Prophets, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and John The Baptist, to name a few. They called Israel continuously to repent. To stop listening to the false prophets who seemed to dominate just like today, having their "itching ears scratched" and wanting to hear only what they wanted to hear, and never coming to repentance. Go to You Tube and type in Steven J Anderson on Paul Washer and you'll see what I mean. It is called "Steven J Anderson Rips into Paul Washer" and when you listen to all his berating of Paul Washer you can just apply it to Steven.

Edited by Jason T V
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Thought I recognized Steven Anderson. He was in the news recently:

 

He stood up in his pulpit and screamed “I hope Bruce Jenner dies and goes to Hell, I hope he dies today. I hate him…he is an evil, filthy animal…die, you freak!!!!” He went on to say that if “you want to pray for Bruce Jenner to be saved, you are not welcome in this church…get out of here!!!!”

 

 

God bless,

William

 

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Thought I recognized Steven Anderson. He was in the news recently:

 

 

 

 

God bless,

William

Indeed, a sermon I thought quite unworthy of presenting. It is interesting that one as young as he and as animated in the cause of his beliefs should be such a mixture of error and truth. He is, according to his web pages, the father of seven or eight children and husband of a demure German wife; he speaks English, German, and seemingly some modern Greek. I do not doubt he is intelligent yet he seems to be inclined to excess in some doctrines. Nevertheless his comments about the use of Yeshua in preference over Jesus have some cogency and the Hebrew Roots movement most certainly has in its number many who urge observance of Israelite feast days and dietary laws as well as Torah in general and these things cannot be counted as true or good.

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I know that this is an old post, but I was actually going to post about him here until I saw this thread so I hope it's okay for me to comment. (Off topic: Does he remind anyone else of Jack from Lost?? Haha) I actually really like this guy, although I haven't watched his sermons. I am familiar with his documentary titled "Marching To Zion," and was particularly impressed by it. I have to say that I agree with everything he said in it, but I love how he was so respectful to the Jews he was interviewing in it even though they had different opinions than him.

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He is illiterate and doesn't understand that Yahweh predates Jesus. Yahweh is the sacred Tetragrammaton of YHWH with probably means 'he is'. Because God's name is so sacred he needs a special name. Jesus isn't Yahweh but the son of Yahweh. This guy is annoying and hateful. His lack of basic knowledge shows he's only in it for the money and fame and not for God or he wouldn't slander Yahweh's chosen people.

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It says it right there in the Bible that the Jews are no longer the chosen people. They turned against him and the Bible says they are of the devil, which makes sense seeing as how they've been kicked out of several countries and always support things like gay marriage.

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He is indeed a piece of work. I did look up his bio even though I have heard of him and frankly I am not impressed with his methodology nor his self taught individualistic belief system.

 

Steven is an example of why so many people today hate Christianity. He makes it hard to study the Word of God by placing so many land mines in the way, and by pretending he has a good concept of Greek is a total abomination to those of us who did study.

He, like several other preachers and pastors that I have run into in the past, literally take the eyes of others off of the Lord and place them on themselves so their congregation will continually seek their approval.

 

For instance: Under his definition of righteousness, if I say that I do not care anything about homosexuality then I am condemed to hell. In truth, I really do not care what gender other people align themselves with for it is the ACT that is sinful and as we all know, ALL sins can be forgiven with the exception of one.

In the past, I even heard a preacher say that a person could not call God, "daddy". If a small child (which I knew) without an earthly dad wishes to assign that job to the Heavenly Father and call Him daddy......God Bless him or her.

 

I really will not get to far on the name of Jesus for I know that there is but one Son of the Father and He said, "before Abraham, I AM". Good enough for me. He is the Great I AM. The Alpha and Omega. Yeshua, Joshua, Jesus, and the list goes on.............

 

Do ya think Jesus the Christ will hate me for that?

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He, like several other preachers and pastors that I have run into in the past, literally take the eyes of others off of the Lord and place them on themselves so their congregation will continually seek their approval.

 

Amen!

 

Sometimes it seems that there are too many fruit inspectors with the intent of bringing upon the brethren condemnation of the Lord.

 

Reminded me of Shai Linne's video on proper response. I thought about it after reading your response Pastor Bob, having one's eyes taken off of the Lord and misplaced elsewhere:

 

 

 

What has been key for me personally is Soli Deo Gloria. Often I ask whether a doctrine I read professes Glory to God alone. While the beginning of a sermon may preach the Law, and shift the focus onto my sinfulness, I know at this low point that a good Pastor is going to preach Christ crucified, my focus from the Law recognizes my sinful nature and need of a savior to the climax of Christ's crucifixion bringing me to praise, glorifying God alone.

 

God bless,

William

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This is one of those people who do not understand the Bible, yet believe they are a preacher. How can you call yourself a Christian and not love? How can you not take seriously that we are to preach the gospel to everyone, no matter what choices they have made as unbelievers? This is just totally wrong. Sadly, he is another example of an Independent Baptist that is not walking according to the teachings of Christ. I don't know what it is about the Independent Baptists. I certainly do not want to make a blanket statement when there are certainly wonderful people among them, but all my life I have heard not so good things about them.

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It says it right there in the Bible that the Jews are no longer the chosen people. They turned against him and the Bible says they are of the devil, which makes sense seeing as how they've been kicked out of several countries and always support things like gay marriage.

I suggest that you read and study chapters 9 to 11 of Romans. Paul was a Jew and cared about the welfare of his people. They have been temporarily blinded to the truth because they rejected Jesus as their Messiah but a time is coming when their blindness will end.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel,
until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,

he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

“and this will be my covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”

(Romans 11:25-27 ESV)

 

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You people say he doesn't know what he's talking about, but to me it sounds as if he's interpreting the bible correctly and telling the truth that others are scared to say because they might be seen as anti-semitic. If I lived in the state he preaches in, I would love to be a member of his church. All you have to do is watch his documentary March To Zion and he has all the proof there to match his statements and what he preaches.

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You people say he doesn't know what he's talking about, but to me it sounds as if he's interpreting the bible correctly and telling the truth that others are scared to say because they might be seen as anti-semitic. If I lived in the state he preaches in, I would love to be a member of his church. All you have to do is watch his documentary March To Zion and he has all the proof there to match his statements and what he preaches.

 

You will have to pardon me but I am an incessant and sometimes over bearing empiricist. While you may say that someone is stating the facts I look to see if all of the facts are indeed intact.

 

In Stevens own doctrinal statement he rallies against homosexuality to the point of saying that a homosexual will go to hell. That, my dear friend is a bold statement for it contradicts the Bible. The examples given in the law of Moses and even in the 1st chapter of Romans condemn the "ACT" of a man performing acts that are unnatural to men.

Please do note: I am NOT gay nor do I sympathize with the plight of gay people but I have led a few to repentance.

 

Now, the other side of the same coin: How is it that a mortal man has to power to condemn another human being to hell?

And do please, let us understand that he has uttered and written the word "homosexual" and to tell the truth, it does not appear in any text anywhere in any version of the Holy Bible. Yet, he espouses the name Jesus to be the one and only name of our savior because he states that it is the only name give in the Bible. (which he is soooooo much in error). He cannot have it both ways. One thing is NOT in the Bible but he says that Biblicly someone is going to hell but another IS in the Bible so do you get my drift??

 

When someone says, "If we find one thing wrong then the whole thing is wrong" it stands as a propositional truth. Okay, his doctrinal statement states that the King James Version of the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.

Again, incorrect. Even though I personally enjoy the King James I know that there are 14 mistakes based on translational problems which came from a misunderstanding about cultural differences. Every theologian in the world knows this but yet, your friend Steven has again, gone against the facts.

One thing wrong and it's all wrong remember? I found three mistakes he has made in as many minutes so what now?

Do I shrug my shoulders and say yeah, but he's a good guy, an ordained preacher, (who ordained him?) so he's got to be right. Nope!!

 

We are told to "prove" all things are we not? Did not Paul tell Timothy to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, A workman who needeth not be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the WORD of TRUTH?"

 

My dear friend, there are sooooo many sects out there in every phase of Christianity and it is our job, as Children of God, to make sure that when we study, we study the whole and right information and not something lined with half truths.

That, is how we get a bunch of really miserable Christians living miserable lives............God Bless............Bobby

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He who denies the Son denies the Father. The Jews deny the Son. @theophilus They don't even believe in the Bible or go by the laws written in it. Their temple was destroyed, their people were scattered, and Christ allowed it. Why? Because he wasn't happy with them. They don't even believe in the real prophet, they believe it's Moses. They believe they can lie, cheat, and steal as long as it's not against their own people (only against the Gentiles). Jesus even rebuked the word of the Talmud, which states that he's the son of Pantera who Mary committed adultery with, which states that he did his miracles with magic, which says Jesus should be punished for all eternity in hot excrement, which says God is both male and female (the Bible proves that false). So tell me what makes them the chosen people any longer when it says in the Bible that they're not?

 

@Bobby Cole The term homosexual defines a man laying with a man, therefore the word doesn't have to be in the Bible to be understood that they go hand in hand and mean the same thing; the Bible says two men must not lie together like a man and woman does, therefore the term homosexual goes along with what the Bible is saying and therefore one can say they are going to Hell.

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For discussion's sake:

 

 

1 Corinthians 6

 

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

 

While we would not condemn homosexuals solely, as sin is not what sends men to Hell, and all sin, we do have to recognize what Scripture states concerning those who practice an unbroken pattern of sin who evidence they have not repented.

 

Anyone care to comment on this passage?

 

 

God bless.

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therefore the term homosexual goes along with what the Bible is saying and therefore one can say they are going to Hell.

 

When I was saved I was still using drugs, which is something else listed as evidence of an unregenerate nature. God removed that sin from my life, though (and this within a very short period, about a month and a half). I think that we can allow that those engaged in sinful habits can continue those habits into salvation, at which point the cleansing process in our lives begin. It is when, I would suggest, someone denies that a particular habit is sin and an affront to God that we can question the validity of their profession. We can, I think, criticize those who deny what Scripture states and change what is considered by God to be sin.

 

 

God bless.

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He who denies the Son denies the Father. The Jews deny the Son. @theophilus They don't even believe in the Bible or go by the laws written in it. Their temple was destroyed, their people were scattered, and Christ allowed it. Why? Because he wasn't happy with them. They don't even believe in the real prophet, they believe it's Moses. They believe they can lie, cheat, and steal as long as it's not against their own people (only against the Gentiles). Jesus even rebuked the word of the Talmud, which states that he's the son of Pantera who Mary committed adultery with, which states that he did his miracles with magic, which says Jesus should be punished for all eternity in hot excrement, which says God is both male and female (the Bible proves that false). So tell me what makes them the chosen people any longer when it says in the Bible that they're not?

 

@Bobby Cole The term homosexual defines a man laying with a man, therefore the word doesn't have to be in the Bible to be understood that they go hand in hand and mean the same thing; the Bible says two men must not lie together like a man and woman does, therefore the term homosexual goes along with what the Bible is saying and therefore one can say they are going to Hell.

Here is what get's us all in trouble if we do not study @Finding-Faith. The word "homosexual" is a noun or an adjective but NOT a verb. The meaning of it is really simple: Someone who is sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. It is NOT the *ACT* of having sex with the same sex!

Now please do tell me where it says that these people (homosexuals) are going to hell. What does your copy of the Bible say about repentance? What about grace? What about forgiveness?

Where does it say that we, as children of God, have any right to say one way or the other about someone's eventual afterlife destination?

 

Lumping people into a basket without knowing each and every detail is why God does the judging either for condemnation or for the heavenly course.

I do PLEAD with everyone! Please stop and STUDY before committing the most grievous mistake a human can make which is to drive people away from Christianity rather than showing the same grace that God continually shows us on a second by second basis.

Instead of listening to someone (even me) make their own judgments concerning scripture, crack the books and LEARN the truth. Learn to read Greek and Hebrew and expose every piece of information you can to the open air so it can be consumed easily in truth instead of having to gag on our own misconceptions in front of the Father at the Great White Throne.

 

Jesus said that it is what comes OUT of the mouth that defiles the man. I am sure that Writing has the same consequences.

 

Please DO forgive me for my small rant. I have seen and heard so much unstudied hypocracy in the years I have spent in ministry it does make me a tad tempestuous.

 

God Bless.............Bobby

 

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Here is what get's us all in trouble if we do not study @Finding-Faith. The word "homosexual" is a noun or an adjective but NOT a verb. The meaning of it is really simple: Someone who is sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. It is NOT the *ACT* of having sex with the same sex!

 

Not sure how your study brought you to this conclusion.

 

There is a difference between lust and the actual act of fornication, however, if adultery is defined by the Lord as simply lusting in the heart, and considered sin, why would we divorce this definition from homosexual lust?

 

 

Now please do tell me where it says that these people (homosexuals) are going to hell.

 

Already did (post #15):

 

 

1 Corinthians 6

 

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

 

How would you define "...shall not inherit the Kingdom of God?"

 

Consider Paul's statement here...

 

1 Timothy 1

 

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

 

Note in v.9 that in view are the lawless and disobedient. Ungodly and sinners. Unholy and profane. Not exactly a picture of a believer who has fallen into sin, but of their very nature.

 

Homosexuality is contrary to sound Doctrine, why would we not recognize that?

 

 

 

What does your copy of the Bible say about repentance? What about grace? What about forgiveness?

 

That's simple:

 

Acts 17:30

 

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

 

We can rightly question those we can clearly identify as not only not repenting...but trying to make the practice of homosexuality acceptable.

 

And that is the effort of the Homosexual Agenda.

 

I am sorry, but it seems you have bought into their campaign.

 

 

Where does it say that we, as children of God, have any right to say one way or the other about someone's eventual afterlife destination?

 

How about here...

 

 

Jude

 

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

 

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

 

This would actually make for a great discussion.

 

 

Lumping people into a basket without knowing each and every detail is why God does the judging either for condemnation or for the heavenly course.

 

What details are lacking in this conversation? lol

 

Scripture makes it clear that homosexuality is sin, and that those who refuse to repent and come into obedience to the will of God...evidence an unregenerate nature.

 

There is no justification for trying to make homosexuality acceptable, and there is no sugar0coating any sin.

 

We can judge whether we think people are headed for Hell or not, and it is because of this that we witness to people. Let's exchange the homosexual for a practicing Muslim. Are you going to say we worship the same God? Do we excuse their diminutive view of Christ? Their denial of both His Salvation and Deity?

 

 

I do PLEAD with everyone! Please stop and STUDY before committing the most grievous mistake a human can make which is to drive people away from Christianity rather than showing the same grace that God continually shows us on a second by second basis.

 

The most grievous mistake?

 

Perhaps if we stuck closer to what Scripture actually states we would cut down on the Tares in the many fellowships around the world.

 

If you think condoning homosexuality in the life of a professing believer is helping them, I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.

 

When is the last time you condoned adultery in the life of a professing believer?

 

 

Instead of listening to someone (even me) make their own judgments concerning scripture, crack the books and LEARN the truth.

 

And then, after having done that...what then? If you tell people what you have learned, correct error, and warn people that their lives display an unrepentant and unregenerate nature....do you keep it to yourself?

 

That does not correlate to the ministries of the writers of Scripture, nor any that ministered.

 

Here is another example of someone presuming to know the heart of another:

 

 

Acts 8

 

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

 

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

 

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

 

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

 

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

 

 

Was Peter being judgmental?

 

How about Paul in regards to the man sleeping with his father's wife? Paul in regards to Peter's hypocrisy in regards to the Galatians?

 

Yes, we should be able to discern the condition of others in regards to eternity.

 

 

Learn to read Greek and Hebrew and expose every piece of information you can to the open air so it can be consumed easily in truth instead of having to gag on our own misconceptions in front of the Father at the Great White Throne.

 

One does not have to learn to read Greek and Hebrew, not when we have resources that have accomplished much of the work such knowledge can help us with. I would suggest that most of the translations available are enough for one to understand God's will on this and any other matter. We can appeal to Strong's Concordance to examine the original languages...but how many do that?

 

And I am talking about those who advocate "compassion" for this sin or any other as well.

 

 

Jesus said that it is what comes OUT of the mouth that defiles the man. I am sure that Writing has the same consequences.

 

Are you trying to say that homosexual behavior...does not defile?

 

Are you saying that recognition of a very simple Bible teaching...defiles?

 

 

Please DO forgive me for my small rant. I have seen and heard so much unstudied hypocracy in the years I have spent in ministry it does make me a tad tempestuous.

 

Granted...;)

 

However, your rant is not something I cannot agree with. Homosexuality cannot be made acceptable, no more than adultery can be. IT has always been sin, always will be.

 

 

God bless.

Edited by S.T.Ranger

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It would seem that you are totally transfixed upon one particular item and not the entirety of the situation.

ALL sin is potentially an act fit for condemnation, THAT my dear friend is the entirety of the situation and not localizing on one particular act of iniquity, trespass, or sin.

 

For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God, which means that you, me, and everyone is condemned to hell and by the very scriptures that you have proposed. Indeed, those scriptures do not lie but why do we concentrate on ONE sin and not all trespasses that plague mankind? Is it a very new thing that we have to stop and respond to for I do believe that it has been around for a few thousand years.

 

When we preach Christ crucified and resurrected we indeed have our advocate by which our sins, through repentance, can be forgiven. But, we are NOT the judges of who has sought that repentance nor do we know what is in a person's heart.

Can a thief, a liar, an adulterer, a murderer, or a rapist be forgiven? My book says that there is only ONE unforgivable sin and I do not believe it is someone's mixed up affinity for another of his or her gender.

 

With the base analogy that you have prescribed as best, the example Jesus gave of the one out of a hundred missing sheep is the one we hunt down and shoot or leave to the wolves.

 

Please do note: I do not like the persecution of Christians by a particular grouping of homosexuals but that does not stop me from preaching Christ crucified to everyone (including homosexuals) who would give an ear.

 

But now, I guess that this is just one more sliver to pluck out of another man's eye isn't it? While I am not gay, I absolutely am a sinner, a forgiven sinner but a sinner nonetheless who's righteousness is only through Jesus Christ who was crucified, was resurrected and later ascended into Heaven.

 

Second Note: Bought into the homosexual agenda? It would seem that you not only do not read hearts and minds but you judge way to quickly and without the considerations that one would expect from someone who studies. Ergo........Don't just read the scriptures you can condemn with, study the ones you need to help change lives with........Study brother, study.

 

Sorry, if we cannot speak of forgiveness and the path to grace there will be no more debate on the subject from this personage. God Bless..........Bobby

 

 

 

 

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There is a difference between lust and the actual act of fornication, however, if adultery is defined by the Lord as simply lusting in the heart, and considered sin, why would we divorce this definition from homosexual lust?

Lusting after another person is a sin, whether you are a homosexual or a heterosexual. But there is a difference between experiencing a sexual preference for others of the same sex and lusting after them, just as there is a difference between being heterosexual and actively lusting after a woman.

 

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It would seem that you are totally transfixed upon one particular item and not the entirety of the situation.

 

 

On the contrary, I simply addressed your comments.

 

ALL sin is potentially an act fit for condemnation, THAT my dear friend is the entirety of the situation and not localizing on one particular act of iniquity, trespass, or sin.

 

This is where I would disagree with you, on a number of levels actually, but I will address what I see as the primary issue to be considered.

 

Man does not go to Hell because of his sin, his sin merely determines the severity of his punishment. The reason that man goes to Hell is because he...

 

...is out of relationship with God.

 

That relationship is restored in salvation in Christ. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is, I feel, the very process that makes man new, something he was not before, thus we see New Birth as that transforming process brought about by that indwelling, through which we become new creatures.

 

And this is the issue I suggest you give attention to, because we are actually discussing, or debating if you will, two entirely different sides of this issue. You charge me me with condemning homosexuals, that is not the case, and I made that clear in my previous post. What I am saying is that those who try to reconcile a homosexual lifestyle and teach that it is not sin...evidence an unregenerate nature, rather than one who has been transformed by being brought into eternal relationship with God.

 

 

For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God, which means that you, me, and everyone is condemned to hell and by the very scriptures that you have proposed.

 

Sorry, no.

 

As a born again believer Hell holds no power over me, for Christ has conquered. My sin has been atoned for by the Lord, and that in perfection. While I will, and do sin in my life, that does not mean I seek to justify my sin, as some seek to do with homosexuality.

 

 

Indeed, those scriptures do not lie but why do we concentrate on ONE sin and not all trespasses that plague mankind?

 

Who did that? This is just one topic, one response, and a focus on a particular sin. I asked for commentary on the Scripture I gave and instead received a rant, lol. It was asked "Where in Scripture does it say homosexuals will go to Hell?" and I presented one that states that they will not inherit the Kingdom.

 

What other option is there?

 

That doesn't mean that those who have been saved cannot carry their sin into their walk with the Lord, however, those who refuse to remove this sin from their lives, again...display an unregenerate nature, rather than that of one who has repented and turned to Christ for cleansing.

 

Is it a very new thing that we have to stop and respond to for I do believe that it has been around for a few thousand years.

 

It's new but been around a few thousand years?

 

Speaking out against sin began with God, and throughout the entire Bible that is the pattern for the spokesman for God. Show me one Prophet that justified sin. The difference between then and now is that people had the common sense to simply call sin sin.

 

When we preach Christ crucified and resurrected we indeed have our advocate by which our sins, through repentance, can be forgiven. But, we are NOT the judges of who has sought that repentance nor do we know what is in a person's heart.

 

Just not true. For example, aren't there people in your life that you...don't witness to?

 

Why not? Because you have judged in your heart that they are saved, lol.

 

 

Can a thief, a liar, an adulterer, a murderer, or a rapist be forgiven? My book says that there is only ONE unforgivable sin and I do not believe it is someone's mixed up affinity for another of his or her gender.

 

And that blasphemy goes back to man's need to come into relationship with God. If one rejects the Ministry of the Holy Spirit they reject the only means possible for escaping punishment.

 

Consider:

 

 

Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV

 

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

 

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

 

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

 

Most will erroneously think that in view here are Christians losing their salvation, that is not the case. In view is a comparison of those who rejected God's will under the Law (Moses' Law, the Covenant of Law), and those that reject Christ and the New Covenant. It is the Holy Ghost, the Comforter to be specific, that enlightens man to the truth. The point is that those who rejected the Law died (and the death was physical), but it will be much worse for those that reject Christ. Stephen charges Israel with "Always resisting the Holy Spirit" before being stoned to death. The Holy Ghost has always ministered in the hearts of men, but the difference in this Age is the revelation itself, which is the Gospel Mystery revealed through the Holy Ghost (performing the Ministry of Comforter).

 

 

With the base analogy that you have prescribed as best, the example Jesus gave of the one out of a hundred missing sheep is the one we hunt down and shoot or leave to the wolves.

 

Again, you have misunderstood what I have said. We are not talking about Christ going to find a straying Christian, we are talking about those who profess salvation yet deny the teachings of Scripture. Of course there can be believers who fall into that sin, and of course they can be forgiven, however, that does not mean we justify homosexuality and redefine it as not being sin.

 

Please do note: I do not like the persecution of Christians by a particular grouping of homosexuals but that does not stop me from preaching Christ crucified to everyone (including homosexuals) who would give an ear.

 

We do not fail to preach the Gospel to anyone. But that is not in view here, and there is nothing I have said that suggests I wouldn't witness to homosexuals. I have done that on numerous occasions, speaking specifically of the issue, and have never been unkind to them.

 

I don't categorize sin or think my sin is any less an affront to God than theirs. But the bottom line is not necessarily sin, but whether one is in relationship with God. And we can, without controversy, say that those that redefine sin deny a valid conversion. If someone stated "I am a Christian and I have found out that people have been wrong, adultery isn't really a sin," you would think the person ludicrous, would you not?

 

 

But now, I guess that this is just one more sliver to pluck out of another man's eye isn't it? While I am not gay, I absolutely am a sinner, a forgiven sinner but a sinner nonetheless who's righteousness is only through Jesus Christ who was crucified, was resurrected and later ascended into Heaven.

 

That is true of all of us, but this is irrelevant to the discussion. No-one denies that.

 

Second Note: Bought into the homosexual agenda? It would seem that you not only do not read hearts and minds but you judge way to quickly and without the considerations that one would expect from someone who studies.

 

Sorry, but I cannot see defense of homosexuals as anything but a result of the Homosexual Agenda. It's not a judgment, simply an observation.

 

 

Ergo........Don't just read the scriptures you can condemn with, study the ones you need to help change lives with........Study brother, study.

 

Well, in the time I am here, hopefully we can get the chance to study together, my friend.

 

Sorry, if we cannot speak of forgiveness and the path to grace there will be no more debate on the subject from this personage. God Bless..........Bobby

 

lol...we can.

 

However, if "we" cannot also define sin as sin, perhaps it is better not to debate on this issue.

 

 

God bless.

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Lusting after another person is a sin, whether you are a homosexual or a heterosexual. But there is a difference between experiencing a sexual preference for others of the same sex and lusting after them, just as there is a difference between being heterosexual and actively lusting after a woman.

 

At the heart of the issue, no, there is not. While homosexuality does get special mention in regards to sin, lust is lust. And that, I think, is something Bobby is "ranting" against, because many do place homosexuals into a different category, and this usually, I think, seeks to alleviate guilt on the parts of the accusers. Consider Christ's statement to those about to stone the adulteress. He doesn't say "Let those who have not committed adultery cast the first stone," but generalizes any and all sin, "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone."

 

If we break one, we are guilty of all, thus, when it comes to sin, we all stand on a level playing field.

 

And this is why we must understand that man's eternal separation is not something that results from his sin...he is born in that condition. Man will go to Hell unless he comes into eternal relationship with God. Be it homosexuality, adultery, or stealing a piece of bubble gum from a candy store, sin is sin, and until the Body begins again to stand on that Basic Bible Principle, we will tend to set ourselves over those we feel are worse sinners than ourselves, and that is not being true to what Scripture teaches.

 

 

God bless.

Edited by S.T.Ranger

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