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  • I'm looking for help with a statement of belief for staff

    I'm looking for help with a statement of belief for staff. The suggestions should encompass all "Christians" such as the Nicene Creed for starters. If anyone has any suggestions or extra-site sources please post them. This statement of belief will cover volunteer staff here at Christforums. Staff may be comprised from any of the denominational/non denominational groups in the General Faith Category. I'm looking for mutual agreeance, what unifies us under the one holy catholic (universal) church.

    God bless,
    William

  • #2
    That is a tall order and will require some serious thought. It is a good idea.
    Comment>

    • #3
      The Nicene creed is nothing more than a well-ordered arrangement of the facts of Scripture which concern the doctrine of the Trinity. They assert the distinct personality of the Father, Son, and Spirit... and their consequent perfect equality; and the subordination of the Son to the Father, and of the Spirit to the Father and the Son, as to the mode of subsistence and operation. These are scriptural facts, to which the creeds in question add nothing; and it is in this sense they have been accepted by the Church universal (catholic).

      The Nicene Creed with Scriptural references. It has to be proofed:


      I Believe
      Rom. 10:9, Jas 2:19, John 14:1

      In one God,
      Deut. 6:4, Is. 44:6

      The Father
      Is. 63:16, 2 Pet 1:17, Matt. 6:9

      Almighty,
      Gen. 17:1, Ps. 91:1, Rev. 4:8

      Maker
      Job 4:17, 35:10, Is. 17:7, 54:5

      of heaven
      Gen 1:1, 8

      and earth
      Ps. 104:5, Jer. 51:15

      and of all things
      Gen 1:31

      visible and invisible.
      Ps. 89:11-12, Amos 4:13, Rev. 3:5, Col. 1:16

      And in one Lord
      Eph. 4:5

      Jesus Christ,
      Acts 10:36, 11:17, Rom. 1:7, 5:1, 1 Cor 1:2, 6:11, 2 Cor. 1:2, 8:9
      Gal. 1:3, 6:14, Eph. 1:2, 3:11, Phil. 1:2, 3:20, Col. 1:3, 2:6, 1 Thes. 1:1, 5:9,
      2 Thes. 1:1, 2:14, 1 Tim. 6:3, 14, 2 Tim. 1:2, Philemon 1:3, 25, Heb. 13:20,
      Jas. 1:1, 2:1, 1 Pet. 1:3, 3:15, 2 Pet. 1:8, 14, Jude 17, 21, Rev. 22:20-21

      the only-begotton,
      John 1:18

      Son of God,
      Matt 3:17, John 3:16

      Begotten of His Father,
      Heb. 1:5

      Before all worlds,
      John 1:1, Col. 1:17, 1 John 1:1

      begotten,
      John 1:1, Heb. 1:5

      Not Made,
      Mic. 5:2, John 1:18, 17:5

      Being of one substance with the Father,
      John 10:30, 14:9

      By whom all things were made;
      1 Cor. 8:6, Col 1:16

      Who for us men
      Matt 20:28, John 10:10

      and for our salvation
      Matt 1:21, Luke 19:10

      came down from heaven
      Rom. 10:6, Eph. 4:10

      and was incarnate
      Col. 2:9

      by the Holy Spirit
      Matt 1:18

      of the Virgin Mary
      Luke 1:34-35

      and was made man;
      John 1:14

      and was crucified
      Matt. 20:19, John 19:18, Rom. 5:6, 8, 2 Cor. 13:4

      also for us
      Rom. 5:8, 2 Cor. 5:15

      under Pontius Pilate.
      Matt. 27:2, 26, 1 Tim 6:13

      He suffered
      1 Pet. 2:21, Heb. 2:10

      and was buried.
      Mark 15:46, 1 Cor. 15:4

      And the third day
      Matt. 27:63, 28:1, 1 Cor. 15:4

      He rose again
      Mark 16:6, 2 Tim. 2:8

      according to the Scriptures
      Ps. 16:10, Luke 24:25-27, 1 Cor. 15:4

      and ascended
      Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9

      Into heaven
      Mark 16:19, Acts 1:11

      and sits at the right hand of the Father.
      Ps. 110:1, Matt. 26:64, Acts 7:56, Heb. 1:3

      And He will come again
      Jn. 14:3, 1 Thes. 4:16

      with glory
      Matt. 16:27, 24:30, 25:31, 26:64, Mark. 8:38, Col. 3:4

      to judge
      Matt. 25:31-46, Acts 17:31

      both the living and the dead,
      Acts 10:42, 1 Pet. 4:5

      whose kingdom
      John 18:36, 2 Tim. 4:1, 18

      will have no end.
      Luke 1:33, Rev. 11:15, Ps. 145:13


      And I believe in the Holy Spirit,
      Matt. 28:19, Acts 13:2

      The Lord
      2 Cor. 3:17

      And giver of life,
      John 6:63, Rom. 7:6, 8:2, 2 Cor. 3:6

      who proceeds from the father
      John 14:16-17

      and the Son,
      John 15:26, Rom. 8:9, Gal. 4:6

      Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped
      Luke 4:8, John 4:24

      and glorified
      John 4:24, 1 Tim. 1:17

      Who spoke by the prophets.
      1 Pet. 1:10-11, 2 Pet 1:21

      And I believe in one
      1 Cor. 10:16-17, 12:12-13

      Holy
      Eph. 3:16-17, 5:27, 1 Pet. 2:9

      Catholic
      1 Cor. 1:2

      and Apostolic
      Eph. 2:20, Rev. 21:14

      Church,
      Acts 20:28, Eph. 1:22-23, Col. 1:24, Heb. 12:23, 1 Pet. 2:9

      I acknowledge one Baptism
      John 3:5, Rom. 6:3, Eph. 4:5

      For the remission of sins,
      Acts 2:38, 1 Pet. 3:21, Tit. 3:5

      And I look for the resurrection of the dead
      1 Thes. 4:16, 1 Cor. 15:12-13, 16, 52

      And the life of the world to come.
      1 Cor 15:54-57, Rev. 22:5

      Amen.
      Ps. 41:13, 2 Cor. 1:20
      Comment>

      • #4
        I also would like these to be considered as the Basic Doctrines and Beliefs of Christianity and Christforums' staff.

        The following are the basic Christian beliefs central to the Christian faith.
        1. There is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:5-6; Galatians 4:8-9).
        2. God is three in one or a Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; John 14:16-17; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Acts 2:32-33, John 10:30,17:11, 21; 1 Peter 1:2).
        3. God is omniscient or "knows all things" (Acts 15:18; 1 John 3:20).
        4. God is omnipotent or "all powerful" (Psalm 115:3; Revelation 19:6).
        5. God is omnipresent or "present everywhere" (Jeremiah 23:23, 24; Psalm 139).
        6. God is sovereign (Zechariah 9:14; 1 Timothy 6:15-16).
        7. God is holy (1 Peter 1:15).
        8. God is just or "righteous" (Psalm 19:9, 116:5, 145:17; Jeremiah 12:1).
        9. God is love (1 John 4:8).
        10. God is true (Romans 3:4; John 14:6).
        11. God is spirit (John 4:24).
        12. God is the creator of everything that exists (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 44:24).
        13. God is infinite and eternal. He has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Genesis 21:33; Acts 17:24).
        14. God is immutable. He does not change (James 1:17; Malachi 3:6; Isaiah 46:9-10).
        15. The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:11-12; 2 Corinthians 13:14).
        16. Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1, 14, 10:30-33, 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8).
        17. Jesus became a man (Philippians 2:1-11).
        18. Jesus is fully God and fully man (Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 4:15; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
        19. Jesus was sinless (1 Peter 2:22; Hebrews 4:15).
        20. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6; Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22).
        21. Man was created by God in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27).
        22. All people have sinned (Romans 3:23, 5:12).
        23. Death came into the world through Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-15).
        24. Sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).
        25. Jesus died for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2; 2 Corinthians 5:14; 1 Peter 2:24).
        26. Jesus' death was a substitutionary sacrifice. He died and paid the price for our sins, so that we might live. (1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45).
        27. Jesus resurrected from the dead in physical form (John 2:19-21).
        28. Salvation is a free gift of God (Romans 4:5, 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 1:8-10).
        29. The Bible is the "inspired" or "God-breathed," Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21).
        30. Those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell forever after they die (Revelation 20:11-15, 21:8).
        31. Those who accept Jesus Christ will live for eternity with him after they die (John 11:25, 26; 2 Corinthians 5:6).
        32. Hell is a place of punishment (Matthew 25:41, 46; Revelation 19:20).
        33. Hell is eternal (Matthew 25:46).
        34. There will be a rapture of the church (Matthew 24:30-36, 40-41; John 14:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).
        35. Jesus will return to the earth (Acts 1:11).
        36. Christians will be raised from the dead when Jesus returns (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).
        37. There will be a final judgment (Hebrews 9:27; 2 Peter 3:7).
        38. Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).
        39. God will create a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).

        Comment>

        • #5
          Good evening Brothers and Sisters .Agape love and may the Lord shine favorably upon us here and through his Grace bless us in our endeavors to Glorify him and present our self's as a holy living sacrifice.
          Key notes of faith

          1-*...that the Word of God is the Bible, written by God and given to us without error and is sufficient to reveal who God is and what He requires of us for our eternal salvation.*
          2Tim 3:16-17;*Luke 16:31

          2-*...that God exists eternally in three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All are one in will and yet three distinct beings with purpose.
          ( Father as God (Philippians 1:2), Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3–4).)
          1John 5:7;*Mat 28:19;*2Cor 13:14

          3-*...that God created the world in the space of six literal 24 days (evening and night and a number of the day to mark it) and all for His glory.
          Col 1:16;*Gen 1:31

          4-*...that God created Adam and Eve in His image and that the sin of our first parents brought the rest of mankind into a state of sin, misery, bondage, and condemnation. That we have inherited that sin and are in desperate need of Gods Sovereign Grace
          Gen 1:27;*Rom 5:12; Eph 2:8-9

          5-*...that God’s law shows us who God is, what He requires of us, and, due to our sin, condemns us all.
          Rom 3:20;*Rom 7:7;*Gal 3:24

          6-*...that our perfect obedience to the law of God is both impossible and insufficient to earn us a right standing with God.
          Gal 3:11

          7-*...that God has revealed the only way of salvation from our sin in the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
          John 5:24;*Rom 10:9-10

          8-*...that the Gospel was first revealed to Adam and Eve and then progressively revealed in the Old Testament until it was fully revealed in Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
          Gen 3:15;*Heb 1:1-2

          9-*...that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, the unique Mediator between God and man.
          John 1:14;*1Tim 3:16;*1Tim 2:5

          10-*...that Jesus Christ perfect obeyed the law of God for us and died under the wrath of God for the forgiveness of our sins.
          1 John 3:4-5;*1Pet 3:18

          11-*...that Jesus Christ rose from death for our justification and ascended into heaven to sit at His Father’s right hand.
          1Cor 15:3-5;*Heb 10:12

          12-*...that the salvation purchased by Jesus Christ is brought to men’s souls by the preaching of the gospel by the power of the Holy Spirit whom God has elected at the foundations of the earth.
          Rom 10:14:*Rom 10:17

          13-*...that justification comes to us by faith alone, and is based on the righteousness of Christ and not based on anything in us.
          Eph 2:8;*2Cor 5:21

          14-*...that faith is God’s gift to us by His Spirit, and all believers in Christ are elected, justified, sanctified, and glorified by grace alone.
          Eph 2:8;*Rom 8:30; 1 Pet 1:2

          15-*...that the Church of Jesus Christ is the community of all true believers.
          1 Cor 1:2;*Eph. 1:20-22

          16-*...that believers are brought into the local church by water baptism, which is for believers only.
          Matt 28:19-20;*Mark 16:16;*Acts 8:36-37

          17-*...that the church is responsible to teach baptized believers all that Christ commanded them.
          Matt 28:19-20;

          18-*...that the church is responsible to provide public worship where prayer, singing, Scripture reading, preaching, discipline, baptism, and the Lord’s Supper are to be conducted.
          1 Tim 4:13;*1Tim 3:15;*Eph 5:19;*1Cor 11:23-25

          *19-*...that Sunday is the Lord’s Day( our sabbath is in Christ), the day of public worship for Christians and rest form our normal labors and activities and that no man should be judged based upon his sabbath.
          1 Cor. 16:1-2;*Acts 20:7;*Rev. 1:10; Heb 3:11; Heb 4 ; Col 2:16

          20-*...that each local church is to be self-governed by its Shepard (Pastor), elders and servants under the Word of God.
          1Th 5:12;*Heb. 13:17*

          21-*...that each local church is called and commanded by Christ to "GO" spread the Gospel to others throughout the world and make diciples.
          Matt 28:19-20;*Mark 16:15

          22-*...that the souls of believers who die before Christ returns enjoy temporary joy and satisfaction with Him in heaven.
          Heb 12:23;*Phil. 1:23;*2 Cor. 5:1,6,8

          23-*...that the Lord Jesus Christ will return to this earth a second time in glory to judge the living and the dead.
          Acts 17:31;*Rom 2:5-8;*John 5:22;*2Cor 5:10

          24-*... that the bodies of believers will be resurrected when Christ returns at His Second Advent into their glorified state.
          1Th 4:16;*John 6:39,*40,*44,*54

          25-*...that all who reject the Gospel in hardened unbelief will suffer eternal, conscious punishment in Hell in both body and soul.
          Mat 25:41-46;*Mat 13:41-42;*Rev 20:15

          26-*...that all those chosen by God will not suffer condemnation but enter into the new heavens and the new earth in body and soul to enjoy eternal, joyous communion with God and other believers.




          Here are just a few Bible verses that I wanted to add notea predestination, election and reprobation, and God’s sovereignty if that helps mold the topic.

          Predestination

          Romans 8:29*— “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

          Ephesians 1:5*— “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

          Foreknowledge

          Romans 8:29*— “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

          Romans 11:2*— “God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? How he maketh intercession to God against Israel….”

          Acts 2:23*— “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”

          I Peter 1:2*— “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

          Election and Reprobation

          Canons 1, 6 — “That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it proceeds from God’s eternal decree, ‘For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world’ (g). ‘Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will’ (Eph. 1:11). According to which decree He graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while He leaves the non-elect in His just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy. And herein is especially displayed the profound, the merciful, and at the same time the righteous discrimination between men equally involved in ruin; or that decree of election and reprobation, revealed in the Word of God, which, though men of perverse, impure, and unstable minds wrest to their own destruction, yet to holy and pious souls affords unspeakable consolation.”

          Romans 9:10-13*— “And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

          Election

          Ephesians 1:3,*4*— “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

          I Peter 1:2*— “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

          Reprobation

          Canons I, 15 — “What peculiarly tends to illustrate and recommend to us the eternal and unmerited grace of election is the express testimony of sacred Scripture that not all, but some only, are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal election of
          God; whom God, out of His sovereign, most just, irreprehensible, and unchangeable good pleasure, hath decreed to leave in the common misery into which they have willfully plunged themselves, and not to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but leaving them in His just judgment to follow their own ways, at last for the declaration of His justice, to condemn and punish them forever, not only on account of their unbelief, but also for all their other sins. And this is the decree of reprobation which by no means makes God the author of sin (the very thought of which is blasphemy), but declares Him to be an awful, irreprehensible, and righteous judge and avenger thereof.”

          Matthew 11:25,*26*— “At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.”

          John 10:26*— “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.”

          John 12:37-40*— “But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

          Romans 9:13-18*— “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

          Romans 11:7-10*— “What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: let their eyes be darkened that they may not see, and bow down their back always.”

          I Peter 2:8*— “And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”

          God’s Sovereignty

          Acts 15:18*— “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.”

          Isaiah 46:10*— “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:”

          Job 23:13,*14*— “But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.”

          Psalm 115:3*— “But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

          Daniel 4:35*— “And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

          Romans 9:15,*18*— “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion…. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

          Malachi 3:6*— “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

          Jeremiah 32:17*— “Ah, Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:”

          God’s Sovereignty over Sin

          II Samuel 16:11*— “And David said to Abishai, and to all his servants, Behold, my son, which came forth of my bowels, seeketh my life: how much more now may this Benjamite do it? let him alone, and let him curse; for the LORD hath bidden him.”

          II Samuel 24:1*— “And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.”

          Job 1:12*— “And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.”

          Job 1:21*— “And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”

          Proverbs 21:1*— “The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.”

          Amos 3:6*— “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

          Isaiah 45:7*— “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

          Acts 2:23*— “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”

          Acts 4:27,*28*— “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.”

          Romans 9:19-22*— “Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:”
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by ghamm20 View Post
            Good evening Brothers and Sisters .Agape love and may the Lord shine favorably upon us here and through his Grace bless us in our endeavors to Glorify him and present our self's as a holy living sacrifice.
            Key notes of faith
            G'morning Ghamm20,

            Thank you for your suggestions. In the upcoming weeks and/or months I will be deciding on staff. We currently have around 3 volunteers, but as of now I am the only webmaster and sole "human" staff member. I believe staff should have some kind of statement of belief. Your points made through 1-26 are great. The other notes on predestination, election, etc., seemingly have a Reformed leaning. Despite myself being Reformed, I am most willing to open up the statement of belief to a more "universal" approach and state only the unifying beliefs of staff. Though I think your other notes are most logically consistent with points 1-26, namely points 6-14 which cover Soteriology.

            As a new member, I was wondering whether you may offer some feedback on this? Our General Faith categories range from Seventh Day Adventist, Roman Catholics, all the way to non-denominational. Pooling from this venue, would you consider these to be appropriate for a Christian website? On another note, I personally liked point number "3-*...that God created the world in the space of six literal 24 days (evening and night and a number of the day to mark it) and all for His glory. Col 1:16;*Gen 1:31". This would oppose an allegorical approach to Genesis.

            Thank you for your feedback thus far, and God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              I think it’s best to keep it simple. The more you have in the more disagreements you will have.

              The Nicene Creed is good although the Orthodox will object to a Nicene creed that includes the filioque clause.

              The regarding the list, personally I would leave it out. If you must have it then stop at #19.


              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by Bede View Post
                I think it’s best to keep it simple. The more you have in the more disagreements you will have.

                The Nicene Creed is good although the Orthodox will object to a Nicene creed that includes the filioque clause.

                The regarding the list, personally I would leave it out. If you must have it then stop at #19.
                Trying my best.... what are your thoughts concerning post number 4, Bede?

                God bless,
                William

                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by William View Post

                  Trying my best.... what are your thoughts concerning post number 4, Bede?

                  God bless,
                  William
                  4. God is omnipotent or "all powerful" (Psalm 115:3; Revelation 19:6).

                  It depends on the definition of omnipotence.

                  Peter Vardy is a lecturer in Philosophy of Religion at London University’s Heythrop College. He has written a book The Puzzle of God in which he discusses this (among other topics).

                  He gives four definitions and argues against the first two and the last, considering the third one the most satisfactory.

                  1. God can do anything, including the logically impossible.

                  2. God can do everything that is logically possible.

                  3. God can do everything that is absolutely possible. (He says the last one is the one given by Thomas Aquinas who defines absolutely possible as not involving a contradiction.)

                  4. God has all the logically possible powers that are possible for God to have.

                  Having read his arguments I’ll go with definition 3.

                  I guess that’s a bit more comment than you were looking for. :D
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post

                    4. God is omnipotent or "all powerful" (Psalm 115:3; Revelation 19:6).

                    It depends on the definition of omnipotence.

                    Peter Vardy is a lecturer in Philosophy of Religion at London University’s Heythrop College. He has written a book The Puzzle of God in which he discusses this (among other topics).

                    He gives four definitions and argues against the first two and the last, considering the third one the most satisfactory.

                    1. God can do anything, including the logically impossible.

                    2. God can do everything that is logically possible.

                    3. God can do everything that is absolutely possible. (He says the last one is the one given by Thomas Aquinas who defines absolutely possible as not involving a contradiction.)

                    4. God has all the logically possible powers that are possible for God to have.

                    Having read his arguments I’ll go with definition 3.

                    I guess that’s a bit more comment than you were looking for. :D
                    Hi Bede,

                    It isn't more of a comment than what I am looking for. I'm mainly interested in your views as a Roman Catholic and whether you take up issue with anything listed?

                    I believe omnipotence is actually defined by God's character.... Can God lie? A question some ask attempting to prove God is not omnipotent. His very character has determined that He will never do some things, because to do them would be inconsistent with His principles (Can God make a stone too heavy for Him to lift?). Which is more an example of omnipotence? Failing to adhere to Principal or even being tempted by such humanistic nature or adhering to principal?

                    As for God operating logically, I caution the argument. Some would have us believe that Intelligence/rationality/logic etc., although present in the Universe could end at an encounter/or meeting with the Creator, by their argument intelligence/rationality/logic etc., would cease and be similar to a god imbecile with finger to lip (blah blah blah blah) full of noise and emotional disturbances void of meaning. But on the other hand, Vardy's perspective can be found reinforced in John Calvin's comment on Matthew 6:9 that to speak of God being in heaven "separates him from the rank of creatures, and reminds us that, when we think of him, we ought not to form any low or earthly conceptions: for he is higher than the whole world."

                    In short, I agree with point number 4 from Vardy.

                    God bless,
                    William
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by William View Post

                      Hi Bede,

                      It isn't more of a comment than what I am looking for. I'm mainly interested in your views as a Roman Catholic and whether you take up issue with anything listed?

                      I believe omnipotence is actually defined by God's character.... Can God lie? A question some ask attempting to prove God is not omnipotent. His very character has determined that He will never do some things, because to do them would be inconsistent with His principles (Can God make a stone too heavy for Him to lift?). Which is more an example of omnipotence? Failing to adhere to Principal or even being tempted by such humanistic nature or adhering to principal?

                      As for God operating logically, I caution the argument. Some would have us believe that Intelligence/rationality/logic etc., although present in the Universe could end at an encounter/or meeting with the Creator, by their argument intelligence/rationality/logic etc., would cease and be similar to a god imbecile with finger to lip (blah blah blah blah) full of noise and emotional disturbances void of meaning. But on the other hand, Vardy's perspective can be found reinforced in John Calvin's comment on Matthew 6:9 that to speak of God being in heaven "separates him from the rank of creatures, and reminds us that, when we think of him, we ought not to form any low or earthly conceptions: for he is higher than the whole world."

                      In short, I agree with point number 4 from Vardy.

                      God bless,
                      William
                      Hi William,

                      Vardy argues against #4 in favour of #3, the difference being that #3 concerns God’s acts and #4 God’s powers. The argument then gets into whether God has potential and I get a bit loost!


                      But going back to the list:
                      Catholics (& I think Orthodox and ossibly some others) will reject:
                      #26. Jesus' death was a substitutionary sacrifice. He died and paid the price for our sins, so that we might live.
                      Jesus died for our sins but not by a substitutionary sacrifice; at least not in my understanding of what Reformed Theology means - penal substitution.

                      Christ was our substitute in that it was by his whole life and death that he could make atonement to the Father where we could not. But penal substitution - no.


                      A few other minor reservations:

                      #22 – unless you include original sin then not all have sinned (e.g. babies have not personally sinned).

                      #29 in that Jesus is the Word of God (capital ‘W’) not a book, which is the word or words of God (lower case ‘w’).

                      #30/#31 Are these meant to cover all people or is it left open to what happens to people who have never heard of Jesus?

                      #34 I don’t like the word rapture. It seems to be loaded with weird ideas. I tend to avoid eschatology as there seem to be some strange theories going around. But that’s just me.

                      However #26 is the one that could be a problem
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bede View Post

                        Hi William,

                        Vardy argues against #4 in favour of #3, the difference being that #3 concerns God’s acts and #4 God’s powers. The argument then gets into whether God has potential and I get a bit loost!
                        Without reading Vardy's arguments I understand God having potential concerning all possibilities is a flawed argument suggesting God can fall into temptation or go against His Character and Principals. These types of arguments likewise lose me too.

                        I'd love to hear your view and or comments pertaining to this video which addresses your point on number 22:





                        Thank you for sharing your reservations. And I totally respect your view on Eschatology. Matter of fact, I avoided even speaking about Eschatology for quite a while on the forum because I realized such topics would be indexed in the search engines therefore bringing "entertaining" people out of the wood work. :D

                        God bless,
                        William
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Mostly good. I see one serious omission. The NT states many times, such as in Luke 13:3, that repentance (regretting past sin, turning away from sin) is necessary. I don't see anything about repentance in your list.

                          While I agree that people who die apart from Christ are punished for eternity, "Hell" is not eternal, but is destroyed, Rev 20:14. I don't think the "lake of fire" is ever called Hell in any translation, even of the two are popularly thought of as the same. But, I also take the position that references to fire are figurative, a symbol of destruction. Everything thrown into fire is destroyed, aside from Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom to destroy it, not to torment the people -- a literal demonstration of a spiritual truth. God didn't build an eternal torture chamber.

                          Another objection is the Rapture of the church. If Christians have believed in this hope for the last 2000 years, history has proven their hope was in vain, a false hope. But, the Rapture is another modern doctrine that hasn't been held by Christians for most of church history. You might examine the context of your proof texts a little more closely. E.g. "38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left." You want to be taken like the people in the Flood were taken away? If that's not clear enough, " 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

                          Originally posted by William View Post
                          I also would like these to be considered as the Basic Doctrines and Beliefs of Christianity and Christforums' staff.

                          The following are the basic Christian beliefs central to the Christian faith.
                          1. There is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:5-6; Galatians 4:8-9).
                          2. God is three in one or a Trinity (Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; John 14:16-17; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Acts 2:32-33, John 10:30,17:11, 21; 1 Peter 1:2).
                          3. God is omniscient or "knows all things" (Acts 15:18; 1 John 3:20).
                          4. God is omnipotent or "all powerful" (Psalm 115:3; Revelation 19:6).
                          5. God is omnipresent or "present everywhere" (Jeremiah 23:23, 24; Psalm 139).
                          6. God is sovereign (Zechariah 9:14; 1 Timothy 6:15-16).
                          7. God is holy (1 Peter 1:15).
                          8. God is just or "righteous" (Psalm 19:9, 116:5, 145:17; Jeremiah 12:1).
                          9. God is love (1 John 4:8).
                          10. God is true (Romans 3:4; John 14:6).
                          11. God is spirit (John 4:24).
                          12. God is the creator of everything that exists (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 44:24).
                          13. God is infinite and eternal. He has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Genesis 21:33; Acts 17:24).
                          14. God is immutable. He does not change (James 1:17; Malachi 3:6; Isaiah 46:9-10).
                          15. The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:11-12; 2 Corinthians 13:14).
                          16. Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1, 14, 10:30-33, 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8).
                          17. Jesus became a man (Philippians 2:1-11).
                          18. Jesus is fully God and fully man (Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 4:15; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
                          19. Jesus was sinless (1 Peter 2:22; Hebrews 4:15).
                          20. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6; Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22).
                          21. Man was created by God in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27).
                          22. All people have sinned (Romans 3:23, 5:12).
                          23. Death came into the world through Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-15).
                          24. Sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).
                          25. Jesus died for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2; 2 Corinthians 5:14; 1 Peter 2:24).
                          26. Jesus' death was a substitutionary sacrifice. He died and paid the price for our sins, so that we might live. (1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45).
                          27. Jesus resurrected from the dead in physical form (John 2:19-21).
                          28. Salvation is a free gift of God (Romans 4:5, 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 1:8-10).
                          29. The Bible is the "inspired" or "God-breathed," Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21).
                          30. Those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell forever after they die (Revelation 20:11-15, 21:8).
                          31. Those who accept Jesus Christ will live for eternity with him after they die (John 11:25, 26; 2 Corinthians 5:6).
                          32. Hell is a place of punishment (Matthew 25:41, 46; Revelation 19:20).
                          33. Hell is eternal (Matthew 25:46).
                          34. There will be a rapture of the church (Matthew 24:30-36, 40-41; John 14:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).
                          35. Jesus will return to the earth (Acts 1:11).
                          36. Christians will be raised from the dead when Jesus returns (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).
                          37. There will be a final judgment (Hebrews 9:27; 2 Peter 3:7).
                          38. Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).
                          39. God will create a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Thanks,

                            I'll work on taking non essential doctrine from out of the statement of belief eg., eschatology. I have a feeling we will be left with nothing more than the Nicene Creed.

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              We will be using the Nicene Creed and a Reformed statement of belief. Basically, the Nicene Creed will be used to qualify category moderators. If anyone rejects the Nicene Creed then they are ineligible from the most basic staff position.

                              Global Moderators will be required to adhere to not only the Nicene Creed, but also a Reformed Statement of Faith.

                              An example:
                              1. The Bible, having been inspired by God, is entirely trustworthy and without error. Therefore, we are to believe and obey its teachings. The Bible is the only source of special revelation for the church today.
                              2. The one true God is personal, yet beyond our comprehension. He is an invisible spirit, completely self-sufficient and unbounded by space or time, perfectly holy and just, and loving and merciful. In the unity of the Godhead there are three “persons”: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
                              3. God created the heavens and the earth, and all they contain. He upholds and governs them in accordance with his eternal will. God is sovereign (in complete control) yet this does not diminish human responsibility.
                              4. Because of the sin of the first man, Adam, all mankind is corrupt by nature, dead in sin, and subject to the wrath of God. But God determined, by a covenant of grace, that sinners may receive forgiveness and eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ has always been the only way of salvation, in both Old Testament and New Testament times.
                              5. The Son of God took upon himself a human nature in the womb of the virgin Mary, so that in her son Jesus the divine and human natures were united in one person. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life and died on a cross, bearing the sins of, and receiving God’s wrath for, all those who trust in him for salvation (his chosen ones). He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, where he sits as Lord and rules over his kingdom (the church). He will return to judge the living and the dead, bringing his people (with glorious, resurrected bodies) into eternal life, and consigning the wicked to eternal punishment.
                              6. Those whom God has predestined unto life are effectually drawn to Christ by the inner working of the Spirit as they hear the gospel. When they believe in Christ, God declares them righteous (justifies them), pardoning their sins and accepting them as righteous, not because of any righteousness of their own, but by imputing Christ’s merits to them. They are adopted as the children of God and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who sanctifies them, enabling them increasingly to stop sinning and act righteously. They repent of their sins (both at their conversion and thereafter), produce good works as the fruit of their faith, and persevere to the end in communion with Christ, with assurance of their salvation.
                              7. Believers strive to keep God’s moral law, which is summarized in the Ten Commandments, not to earn salvation, but because they love their Savior and want to obey him. God is the Lord of the conscience, so that men are not required to believe or do anything contrary to, or in addition to, the Word of God in matters of faith or worship.
                              8. Christ has established his church, and particular churches, to gather and perfect his people, by means of the ministry of the Word, the sacraments of baptism (which is to be administered to the children of believers, as well as believers) and the Lord’s Supper (in which the body and blood of Christ are spiritually present to the faith of believers), and the disciplining of members found delinquent in doctrine or life. Christians assemble on the Lord’s Day to worship God by praying, hearing the Word of God read and preached, singing psalms and hymns, and receiving the sacraments.

                              God bless,
                              William
                              Comment>
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