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  • About myself.

    I believe in God and Jesus and love them. But I'll be honest with you. My personal beliefs sometimes conflict with the bible so I choose to follow my own path and hope my Mom was right when she said as long as you are generally good person you can go to heaven. I hope to get along well with the people here despite some conflicting ideas and grow spiritually as a person.

  • #2
    Hey NewDawn, greetings.

    Let me warn you about being a generally good person, even Adolph Hitler thought he was a generally good person. We are all generally good in our own eyes. It is only when we measure ourselves against the Bible can we see how good, or rather, not good we are. Indeed, God gave the Mosaic law that is our school master, showing us good from bad.

    I do believe there are generally good and generally bad people. I don't agree with those who like to say they're the chief of sinners (although, they know themselves better than I do). But, I also believe none of us are as good as we think we are (except for those few who honestly revel in what wretches they are). And, none of us reach God's standard that is perfection, not even on a good day.

    I do believe that generally good people who love God, really love God, will make it to the Kingdom of God, even if like everyone else they're wrong about some things.

    I appreciate your honesty, but I don't believe I can go anywhere with someone who doesn't believe the whole Bible. Once you go through that door, the whole Bible becomes worthless. You pick what you want to believe, and what you pick is just a reflection of you, not the Bible, not a bit. And, if you can pick, you're rejecting the authority of the Bible, which means what you pick has no authority. That raises the question, if the Bible has no authority for you, then what is your authority? You? Your culture? Are you up to being your own authority on the universe and eternity? If so, I hope you spared yourself the wasted time in school.

    For message from those who are perishing is the Bible can't be trusted.




    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      Hey NewDawn, greetings.

      Let me warn you about being a generally good person, even Adolph Hitler thought he was a generally good person. We are all generally good in our own eyes. It is only when we measure ourselves against the Bible can we see how good, or rather, not good we are. Indeed, God gave the Mosaic law that is our school master, showing us good from bad.

      I do believe there are generally good and generally bad people. I don't agree with those who like to say they're the chief of sinners (although, they know themselves better than I do). But, I also believe none of us are as good as we think we are (except for those few who honestly revel in what wretches they are). And, none of us reach God's standard that is perfection, not even on a good day.

      I do believe that generally good people who love God, really love God, will make it to the Kingdom of God, even if like everyone else they're wrong about some things.

      I appreciate your honesty, but I don't believe I can go anywhere with someone who doesn't believe the whole Bible. Once you go through that door, the whole Bible becomes worthless. You pick what you want to believe, and what you pick is just a reflection of you, not the Bible, not a bit. And, if you can pick, you're rejecting the authority of the Bible, which means what you pick has no authority. That raises the question, if the Bible has no authority for you, then what is your authority? You? Your culture? Are you up to being your own authority on the universe and eternity? If so, I hope you spared yourself the wasted time in school.

      For message from those who are perishing is the Bible can't be trusted.



      I don't think the bible is worthless. Just dated. Like for example all the animal sacrifices. God seemed to love his animal sacrifices. Most of us don't do that anymore. Also God seemed to be totally cool with incest. But again most of us don't do that anymore either. Then there is the whole thing that strictly out right states that God is against all homosexuals. Male or female. Well I have a few friends who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual and they are great people and see no reason as to why they should be denied access to heaven and it would appear that most Americans agree with me on that. Those are just a few small parts of the bible that I disagree with. But as a whole I think its a great book. But just as I said before it's a little dated. Not outdated. Just dated.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by NewDawn View Post

        I don't think the bible is worthless. Just dated. Like for example all the animal sacrifices. God seemed to love his animal sacrifices. Most of us don't do that anymore.
        God no longer requires animal sacrifices because their purpose has been accomplished. All of us have sinned and the only way sin can be atoned for is by the blood. The death of Jesus Christ and the blood that he shed is the only thing that takes away our sins. Animal sacrifices were a picture of what he would do and they provided a way for people to express their faith. Now they are no longer needed.

        Also God seemed to be totally cool with incest. But again most of us don't do that anymore either.
        There is no way you can start a race from just two people without incest. Today there are enough people so that incest is no longer necessary.

        Then there is the whole thing that strictly out right states that God is against all homosexuals. Male or female. Well I have a few friends who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual and they are great people and see no reason as to why they should be denied access to heaven and it would appear that most Americans agree with me on that.
        God isn't against homosexuals any more than he is against heterosexuals. He is against sin of all kinds and any sin that hasn't been forgiven will keep us out of Heaven.
        Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
        (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV)

        Homosexual sin is just like any other sin; it is enough to keep us out of God's kingdom but like any other sin it can be forgiven.
        And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
        (1 Corinthians 6:11 ESV)
        Clyde Herrin's Blog
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        • #5
          Originally posted by NewDawn View Post
          I don't think the bible is worthless. Just dated. Like for example all the animal sacrifices. God seemed to love his animal sacrifices. Most of us don't do that anymore. Also God seemed to be totally cool with incest. But again most of us don't do that anymore either. Then there is the whole thing that strictly out right states that God is against all homosexuals. Male or female. Well I have a few friends who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual and they are great people and see no reason as to why they should be denied access to heaven and it would appear that most Americans agree with me on that. Those are just a few small parts of the bible that I disagree with. But as a whole I think its a great book. But just as I said before it's a little dated. Not outdated. Just dated.

          Animal sacrifice reflects God's high regard of animals. We now kill animals thanklessly for food. But, God is mindful of all animals (Jesus said so), and animal sacrifice places the highest value on an animal that is going to be eaten. Those animals foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice, so in a sense, they represented Christ. But, with Christ's sacrifice, it is no longer appropriate to sacrifice animals. Still, the Bible tells us to treat animals well and to be thankful for our food.

          Hosea 6:6 For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. God instituted sacrifice for what it represented, not because God loved it. He didn't. In God's paradise, there is no animal death. We saw this in the Garden of Eden before the fall and we'll see it again after Christ's coming when the lion will lay down beside the lamb.

          Your unrepentant homosexual friends will be denied access to Heaven. They may be generally good people, but they are proudly guilty of immoral behavior and thoughts. The thoughts of most Americans (who are, like yourself, just following the lead of the media and the law, in the absence of moral leadership in this country) is irrelevant. If they are generally good people, it's not because they're homosexuals, but is in spite of them being homosexuals.


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          • #6
            I need some clarification on the homosexual part. Because to me it sounds like you said. "It's ok to be a homosexual, but its not ok to do homosexual things, or have homosexual thoughts." Which doesn't make a lick of sense.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
              God isn't against homosexuals any more than he is against heterosexuals. He is against sin of all kinds and any sin that hasn't been forgiven will keep us out of Heaven.
              Yes, God is against sins of all kinds, but heterosexuality is not a sin as you (hopefully inadvertently) imply. God is against homosexuals if they're not repentant. So, you are wrong in your equivocation.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cornelius View Post

                Yes, God is against sins of all kinds, but heterosexuality is not a sin as you (hopefully inadvertently) imply. God is against homosexuals if they're not repentant. So, you are wrong in your equivocation.
                Oh I get it now! It's kind of like with the pedophile disorder. There are some pedophiles out there that never act on their desires because they know that they are wrong morally and legally. So they work their hardest on not acting on those desires and the ones who do are often times caught and imprisoned and rightfully so. Homosexuality is kind of like that. If you have homosexual desires but realize that those desires are wrong and sinful to act on in the eyes of God and work hard to keep them in check then you can go to heaven. But if you don't at least try to control them and just act on those desires blatantly just because it’s not against the laws of man then you are sinning by the laws of God and will eventually be punished for it. Maybe not in this world but in the next. Am I right? If so thanks for that clarification.

                I guess that can be applied to the rest of the bible as well. Now I can understand what you said about me making the whole bible worthless if I pick and choose what parts I like and toss the rest. If I don't try and follow the whole bible then I am no better than some person who would outright side with Satan.

                /mindblown
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NewDawn View Post
                  Oh I get it now! It's kind of like with the pedophile disorder. There are some pedophiles out there that never act on their desires because they know that they are wrong morally and legally.
                  Pedophiles, like homosexuals, believe it's their sexual orientation. I don't know how many avoid acting on their feelings because I don't know how many of them there are. I assume that most people with pedophile feelings remain convinced that acting on their feelings is wrong and so they avoid such actions. But, it is our sin nature to desire to do things that are wrong, even if we don't want such desires. We can usually easily choose not to act upon criminal and immoral feelings. But, once we decide that which is wrong isn't wrong, then we become unrestrained (aside from precautions, such as homosexual men attempting to avoid AIDS, or a robber not wanting to get caught) in our crime and immorality. However, the desire itself is sin.

                  Heterosexuality isn't a sin, but heterosexuals do struggle with sin, such as desire to be unfaithful to their spouses. We all have sins we struggle with. When we try to change any of our desires, we can see how much bondage we're actually in. I believe we can transform any desire, but it takes time. For a Christian, a life focused on God can transform the mind. But, a key difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved are repentant for their sins. Christians desire to not desire to sin.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NewDawn View Post
                    If you have homosexual desires but realize that those desires are wrong and sinful to act on in the eyes of God and work hard to keep them in check then you can go to heaven.
                    This is close to the truth. Someone who has homosexual desires but doesn't act on them is not guilty of this sin. But the Bible says all of us have sinned and none of us deserves to go to heaven. A gay person who doesn't act on his sexual desires has still committed sins of other kinds and can go to Heaven only if he repents of his sins and puts his faith in Christ.

                    Here are two sites that might help you understand homosexuality from a Christian perspective:

                    Seven Things I Wish My Pastor Knew About My Homosexuality | Public Discourse

                    Start here | True Freedom Trust
                    Clyde Herrin's Blog
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                      This is close to the truth. Someone who has homosexual desires but doesn't act on them is not guilty of this sin. But the Bible says all of us have sinned and none of us deserves to go to heaven. A gay person who doesn't act on his sexual desires has still committed sins of other kinds and can go to Heaven only if he repents of his sins and puts his faith in Christ.

                      Here are two sites that might help you understand homosexuality from a Christian perspective:

                      Seven Things I Wish My Pastor Knew About My Homosexuality | Public Discourse

                      Start here | True Freedom Trust
                      Thanks for the links. I'll take a look at them.
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