The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy

Am I the only one that condones abortion?

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  • Am I the only one that condones abortion?

    Allow me to prefice this by saying I know what a controversial topic this is, and I know about the option to give your baby up for adoption, but for some this is not achievable or will be frowned upon by family and friends. I'm just saying, I would rather perform an abortion at a very early stage, than have a baby you can't care for, provide for financially or give a good life. I know a few people that have had abortions and as tough of a decision as it is, they never regretted it and are very happy in their personal lives. I don't believe that someone else should have the right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their own bodies. Does anyone agree with this, or have any insight onto this? Don't attack me, let's have a rational debate here. Look forward to hearing from you guys.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Norjak71 View Post
    Allow me to prefice this by saying I know what a controversial topic this is, and I know about the option to give your baby up for adoption, but for some this is not achievable or will be frowned upon by family and friends. I'm just saying, I would rather perform an abortion at a very early stage, than have a baby you can't care for, provide for financially or give a good life. I know a few people that have had abortions and as tough of a decision as it is, they never regretted it and are very happy in their personal lives. I don't believe that someone else should have the right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their own bodies. Does anyone agree with this, or have any insight onto this? Don't attack me, let's have a rational debate here. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
    So your basis for supporting an abortion is money and what you judge as a good life before life even has the opportunity to live out life? You realize that minorities make up the large part of statistical poverty? You don't believe that someone else should have the right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their own bodies? When the mother murders herself it is called suicide. Do you think it wrong to condemn suicide? The baby is not her body, but when murdered is called an abortion. You believe the mother should have the right to play God over the body and life of the baby? And the mother has the right to sacrifice the innocent before her altar of self?

    In America, abortion is easily affordable and achievable. Planned Parenthood has made it possible for you to donate your money to eradicate children based on race, or what you consider worthy of life.



    On blacks, immigrants and indigents:

    "...human weeds,' 'reckless breeders,' 'spawning... human beings who never should have been born." Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants and poor people

    On sterilization & racial purification:

    Sanger believed that, for the purpose of racial "purification," couples should be rewarded who chose sterilization. Birth Control in America, The Career of Margaret Sanger, by David Kennedy, p. 117, quoting a 1923 Sanger speech.

    On the right of married couples to bear children:

    Couples should be required to submit applications to have a child, she wrote in her "Plan for Peace." Birth Control Review, April 1932

    On the purpose of birth control:

    The purpose in promoting birth control was "to create a race of thoroughbreds," she wrote in the Birth Control Review, Nov. 1921 (p. 2)

    On the rights of the handicapped and mentally ill, and racial minorities:

    "More children from the fit, less from the unfit -- that is the chief aim of birth control." Birth Control Review, May 1919, p. 12

    On religious convictions regarding sex outside of marriage:

    "This book aims to answer the needs expressed in thousands on thousands of letters to me in the solution of marriage problems... Knowledge of sex truths frankly and plainly presented cannot possibly injure healthy, normal, young minds. Concealment, suppression, futile attempts to veil the unveilable - these work injury, as they seldom succeed and only render those who indulge in them ridiculous. For myself, I have full confidence in the cleanliness, the open-mindedness, the promise of the younger generation." Margaret Sanger, Happiness in Marriage (Bretano's, New York, 1927)

    On the extermination of blacks:

    "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population," she said, "if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America, by Linda Gordon

    On respecting the rights of the mentally ill:

    In her "Plan for Peace," Sanger outlined her strategy for eradication of those she deemed "feebleminded." Among the steps included in her evil scheme were immigration restrictions; compulsory sterilization; segregation to a lifetime of farm work; etc. Birth Control Review, April 1932, p. 107
    On adultery:

    A woman's physical satisfaction was more important than any marriage vow, Sanger believed. Birth Control in America, p. 11

    On marital sex:

    "The marriage bed is the most degenerating influence in the social order," Sanger said. (p. 23) [Quite the opposite of God's view on the matter: "Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." (Hebrews 13:4)

    On abortion:

    "Criminal' abortions arise from a perverted sex relationship under the stress of economic necessity, and their greatest frequency is among married women." The Woman Rebel - No Gods, No Masters, May 1914, Vol. 1, No. 3.

    On the YMCA and YWCA:

    "...brothels of the Spirit and morgues of Freedom!"), The Woman Rebel - No Gods, No Masters, May 1914, Vol. 1, No. 3.
    On the Catholic Church's view of contraception:
    "...enforce SUBJUGATION by TURNING WOMAN INTO A MERE INCUBATOR." The Woman Rebel - No Gods, No Masters, May 1914, Vol. 1, No. 3.

    On motherhood:

    "I cannot refrain from saying that women must come to recognize there is some function of womanhood other than being a child-bearing machine." What Every Girl Should Know, by Margaret Sanger (Max Maisel, Publisher, 1915) [Jesus said: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep... for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in which they shall say, Blessed (happy) are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts which never gave suck." (Luke 23:24)]
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    • #3
      You are definitely not alone in feeling this way. Personally, I have experienced an abortion. It is not an easy task. I think people forget that we are human and have said the negative thoughts people spew from their mouths a thousand times over. People already know what they're doing is seen as a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary. In my case, I could not financially support a child and I was on birth control while having sex. Things happen and I was not in a position to bring a child into the world. Adoption? Majority of my family is adopted and I came from a pretty terrible situation. Putting a child into the system is terrible.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by lexinonomous View Post
        You are definitely not alone in feeling this way. Personally, I have experienced an abortion. It is not an easy task. I think people forget that we are human and have said the negative thoughts people spew from their mouths a thousand times over. People already know what they're doing is seen as a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary. In my case, I could not financially support a child and I was on birth control while having sex. Things happen and I was not in a position to bring a child into the world. Adoption? Majority of my family is adopted and I came from a pretty terrible situation. Putting a child into the system is terrible.
        And you have no regret about the life lost to your decisions? You don't feel any shame whatsoever, and you wouldn't hesitate to promote abortion on a Christian board?
        • Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

        Comment>

        • #5
          Here is a thought. If you are not financially, or emotionally, ready to bring a child into this world then you should not be having sex. Once you have a child growing within you it is no longer a decision that just pertains to you, it now also pertains to this new life which belongs as much to God as you do. By aborting the pregnancy you are basically saying to God that you don't care what His plans were for this child, you just don't want to go through the hassle of bringing the child to full term.

          Yes, there are cases where children are not better off, per se, having gone through the foster care system, but God is able to use anyone for His will.
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          • #6
            From a pure Biblical perspective (this is Christ Forums), I don't see any way to get around the fact that someone was alive and then is dead ... that sounds like murder to me.

            Abortion is not the 'unforgivable sin' and should be taken seriously, but not at the expense of our witness. God is about Love and Truth. We need to stand for both.

            Like divorce, abortion is something whose only appropriate response is tears. It is a tragedy and a loss. It cannot ever be treated as nothing. Those who have gone through either (divorce or abortion) have my sympathy.

            Norjak71 sorry, but I can't agree with you. Killing a baby is never OK. At the absolute best, like to save the life of a mother, it might be medically necessary. However it is ALWAYS a tragedy and a time for mourning. In our society, it is almost always about a baby paying for the sin of its parents, making it a double tragedy. So "OK" isn't how I feel about it.
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            • #7
              No, you are not alone. To be honest I am still not really sure where I stand here. It is product of my work, too, though, and I think that matters. I know the Bible teachings and all of that, and human life is sacred, but when you are confronted with certain situations that happen out there, you cannot help but think about. It is certainly a tough issue, and this is evident almost everywhere you look, but I don't think that should stand in the way of honest and open discussions. For that, I say thank you for sharing.
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              • #8
                Here's a fairly recent statement by Melody Green concerning the personhood of an unborn child, and the need for adoption instead of abortion (from her homepage earlier this year):

                "A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person and NOT "the mother's body". The mom is appointed to care for the separate life she carries within her and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one."-- Melody Green
                I was 16 yrs old when "Roe" become the law of the land, and I could find nothing wrong with it whatsoever (in fact, I thought it was great :rolleyes:). Of course, I was a non-Christian teenager who wanted to have sex (but had, up until that point, chosen not to because I worried about getting someone pregnant and what would happen to me if I did). Well, "Roe" made quick work of that, because it took the worry about getting pregnant off the table.

                And I remained a faithful Pro-Abortion person until the day I became a Christian because I never gave a moment's thought to1) the unborn child and the loss of his or her life, or2) the fact that I was giving hardy approval to a practice that destroyed the life of one made in God's image (Genesis 1:26-27), and one whose life and formation in the womb God was so intimately involved with (Psalm 139:13-16).

                The first question I normally ask those who are both "Christian" and "Pro-Choice" is, "how do you justify being both of those at the same time". However, I think I'd rather ask you guys a new question instead,which part of abortion do you see as being, "Christian", and why do you believe it is"?

                Remember, far more than 99% of all the abortions performed since "Roe" were done simply for the sake of the mother's convenience, not because there was a risk to her health or to her life.

                Thanks!

                Yours and His,
                David


                "He [John the Baptist] will be filled with the Holy Spirit
                while yet in his mother’s womb"

                Luke 1:15





                Last edited by David Lee; 06-08-2017, 01:03 PM.
                Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                Comment>

                • #9
                  The issue is very simply. Except to save the mother's life, if you believe that the unborn is an innocent human being, then there can be no moral justification for an abortion. No one's personal preference can override a moral imperative.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    ....if you believe that the unborn is an innocent human being, then there can be no moral justification for an abortion.
                    So what say you Christian, "Pro-Choicers", do you believe an unborn child is an innocent human being, or do you believe something else?

                    Thanks!

                    --David




                    "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby
                    leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was
                    filled with the Holy Spirit"

                    Luke 1:41





                    Last edited by David Lee; 08-19-2016, 08:05 PM.
                    Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                    "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                    "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                    "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                    "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Norjak71 View Post
                      Allow me to prefice this by saying I know what a controversial topic this is, and I know about the option to give your baby up for adoption, but for some this is not achievable or will be frowned upon by family and friends. I'm just saying, I would rather perform an abortion at a very early stage, than have a baby you can't care for, provide for financially or give a good life. I know a few people that have had abortions and as tough of a decision as it is, they never regretted it and are very happy in their personal lives. I don't believe that someone else should have the right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their own bodies. Does anyone agree with this, or have any insight onto this? Don't attack me, let's have a rational debate here. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
                      I agree. I don't agree with late-term abortion, because at that point the baby is alive. Women SHOULD be able to do what they want with their bodies.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AGustOfWind View Post
                        I agree. I don't agree with late-term abortion, because at that point the baby is alive. Women SHOULD be able to do what they want with their bodies.
                        Hi AGoW, how do we determine the point of gestation when the unborn child moves from dead to alive?

                        Thanks!

                        --David

                        Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                        "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                        "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                        "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                        "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          For me, part of it comes down to the fact that you are unable to make a determination of what kind of life the unborn child will have. You may think that you are not ready to be a parent (in which case preventative measures should have been taken beforehand), that you are unable to financially support a child (FYI: my parents did it with 4 kids and under $30k/year), or any other myriad of reasons why a person would try and justify an abortion. If the person having the abortion is a Christian, they should be more concerned with what the Bible teaches than whether or not family or friends will be offended if they put the baby up for adoption. I think the issue that needs answered here is not whether or not society has a right to tell someone what to do with their body, but rather whether or not the Bible has a right to tell someone what to do with their body. According to the Bible, abortion is wrong, which I literally take to mean at ANY point after conception, not after whatever stage. Christian's are fine with using preventative measures, so that is the route that should be taken. If a believer ends up pregnant while using protection, then that is Gods way of saying it is time for you to become a parent (even if you give the child up for adoption you are still now a parent). In my opinion, this issue is far too often looked at from a secular viewpoint and not based on the teachings of the Bible, which allows for some wiggle room.

                          Quote from Ronald Raegan: "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born." In the end, I feel you are correct that other people should not have the right to tell you what you can do with your body in terms of abortion, that is between you and God. However, if abortion is to be argued under this premise, then it needs to be carried to the extreme... If society has no right to dictate what can be done with someone's body, then all drugs need to be legalized, suicide can't be illegal, and people should be legally allowed to walk around naked in public if they so desire.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AGustOfWind View Post
                            I don't agree with late-term abortion, because at that point the baby is alive. Women SHOULD be able to do what they want with their bodies.
                            First, it is alive at the moment of conception. Second, the baby is not the woman's body. DNA proves that. Take a biology course.
                            Last edited by Origen; 08-20-2016, 05:46 PM.
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EntropiaAddict View Post
                              Quote from Ronald Raegan: "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
                              I like that.
                              Comment>
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