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They Must Change The Laws

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  • They Must Change The Laws

    The current gun ownership and use laws seem not to be effective. Unless the laws are changed, then we should expect more shooting incidents which will claim a lot of lives. I see no reason for citizens to have rights to own and use guns. Recent shootings which may or may not be linked to terrorism are just a signal of what is to come. This issue should not be made to be a political issue since it affects everybody. Some shootings have been linked to drug use and others linked to terrorist acts. We have witnessed shootings in schools whereby children have lost lives. The US must ensure that everybody is safe from such incidents.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Francis View Post
    I see no reason for citizens to have rights to own and use guns.
    I do, the second amendment. The right to protect myself and my family. The right not to have my guns (a law abiding citizen) taken by the government because of the crimes of others.
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    • #3
      Actually, the laws should be enforced as originally written, not the watered down, heavily interpreted versions we have now. That really is the biggest problem with our current government. They think the system is broken because of the laws. The system is broken because of the people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Knotical View Post
        Actually, the laws should be enforced as originally written, not the watered down, heavily interpreted versions we have now. That really is the biggest problem with our current government. They think the system is broken because of the laws. The system is broken because of the people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws.
        Exactly. The FBI knew about Mateen before Orlando. The gun store owner even called the FBI and told them he wanted to purchase body armor and large amounts of ammunition.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Origen View Post
          Exactly. The FBI knew about Mateen before Orlando. The gun store owner even called the FBI and told them he wanted to purchase body armor and large amounts of ammunition.
          Now that is another thing. What could he possibly have wanted body armor and ammunition other than to do something horrific? That really should be the call of the gun store owner. He should have a responsibility to prevent someone like this from obtaining that stuff from his store, even if he has a slight inkling the guy might do something off with it.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Knotical View Post
            Now that is another thing. What could he possibly have wanted body armor and ammunition other than to do something horrific? That really should be the call of the gun store owner. He should have a responsibility to prevent someone like this from obtaining that stuff from his store, even if he has a slight inkling the guy might do something off with it.
            The owner did not sell him body armor (I believe the store does not even carry body armor) and that is what prompted him to call the FBI.

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            • #7
              Sounds like the FBI has once again failed to do their duty.
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              • #8
                The legal gun owners in the United States are NOT the problem here. We have around 55 million gunowners, and only a few of these shootings, and almost all of the shootings like this last one have been done by someone who is in some way affiliated with a terrorist group, or wants to be part of one.
                Terrorists don't care whether their weapons are legal ones or not; so if the kinds of weapons that they want to use are not available legally, then they will just get those same weapons illegally.

                What needs to be dealt with are the criminals and the terrorist cells here, and not the legal gun owners.
                Making drugs illegal has done nothing to stop the sale of those drugs, and making guns illegal is not going to stop terrorists from shooting people, either.
                There are actually quite a few times where a similar shooting has been stopped immediately, just because there was an armed citizen there to stop the criminal from killing people; but those stories are not theones which make headlines, obviously.
                They do not commit these horrible shootings in gun-free zoness for no reason, folks !
                Would you believe that some people are actually putting a special colored light on their front porch to announce that their home is a gun-free home ?
                What better way could you tell a thief that this place is safe to rob and steal and the owners are defenseless !
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                • #9
                  To be honest, I don't think changing the laws will have much of an effect. Anyone who can buy a 3D printer can print a gun. So tech has made it a lot easier for the bad guys to get guns. Though owning a 3D printed gun is illegal I doubt that would stop terrorists from using these guns if they are the only ones they can obtain. The focus should be on fighting Islam/radical Islam and closely monitoring hate groups.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Smithee View Post
                    The focus should be on fighting Islam/radical Islam and closely monitoring hate groups.
                    But I am afraid that the Americans on power (claimed being Christian) don't agree with you ;)
                    Please don't tell me you still don't know that one of the closest allies to the US System happens to be the fanatic radical Islamist Royal family of Saudi Arabia?
                    This USA ally applies, openly and for more than 80 years so far, on their people Al-Sharia of Al-Qaeda!
                    I mean, I would be grateful if you explain this dilemma. Thank you.
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                    • #11
                      Well I think that most people can agree on one thing, and that is that something needs to be done. Of course you are going to get the arguments from both sides on whatever issue that you bring up, and we know this so there is really no surprise there. Whether it be through the legal system or whatever other way - I am having trouble thinking of other options - this is too much violence and it needs to stop. I am curious to see where the debate goes, and I hope it is not just another flash in the pan.
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                      • #12
                        The problem isn't owning guns. In a healthy society, guns are a necessary precaution against the government and vandals. So basically gathering dust in a safe. I do think that there should be more training to prevent people from absentmindedly keeping their gun in a purse or on a bed side table for even a second when they have kids. There have been so many accidents where kids accidentally shot themselves or someone with a gun. But they do background checks to get a gun and that doesn't stop people from doing bad things. The problem isn't the gun it's the person holding the gun. I lived in a small town where during hunting season, almost everyone had guns in holsters and in their windows. And it never made me feel unsafe because I knew they had grown up knowing the safety precautions and proper training. But in the city, you get stupid people who have them just randomly in their drawers or out in the open and I feel unsafe even if there is only one because they don't treat it with respect. So I agree with more training on safety, but not more laws restricting getting a gun. Also more gun laws doesn't equal a safer environment.
                         
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                        • #13
                          As long the business of producing/trading guns/weapons is safe and protected by laws (not just in America), the reasons for which its products are sold are irrelevant.
                          On the other hand, artificial wars and bloody conflicts have to be created, from time to time and in this or that region, in order for this business to keep flourishing. After the Hollywood perfect crime on 9/11/2001, spreading terror became rather easy to do and even justified in the daily episodes of the International Endless Series "War on Terror" that we watch for 15 years so far..

                          Please note that only 'rare' people in the world who live much like Jesus Christ did don't need using guns (or alike) for self-defence against other humans... It happened that I am one of them.

                          Kerim
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                            As long the business of producing/trading guns/weapons is safe and protected by laws (not just in America), the reasons for which its products are sold are irrelevant.
                            On the other hand, artificial wars and bloody conflicts have to be created, from time to time and in this or that region, in order for this business to keep flourishing. After the Hollywood perfect crime on 9/11/2001, spreading terror became rather easy to do and even justified in the daily episodes of the International Endless Series "War on Terror" that we watch for 15 years so far..

                            Please note that only 'rare' people in the world who live much like Jesus Christ did don't need using guns (or alike) for self-defence against other humans... It happened that I am one of them.

                            Kerim
                            Without any proof you're presenting yourself as a false witness committing some pretty vicious slander. Do you have any proof that the war on terror was committed for profit? And you do realize that 9/11 was not committed by violent gun acts but by "kamakazi" style suicidal terrorist? Do you think we should ban all commercial flights or even airlines? Did you catch the article some two weeks ago when the knife wielding Muslim murdered 30-40 people in China? Should knives now be banned too?

                            I'm trying to understand your logic here, but our forefathers warned us of Islam deeming its ideology as incompatible with the West: What The Founders Thought About Islam, In Their Own Words -Christforums
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                            • #15
                              I am sorry for disappointing you, William :(

                              If Jesus had a chance to prove He wasn't a criminal person as accused by the ancient Honourable Just Jewish leaders, it would be possible, not just for me but for many professional American engineers I met on the internet, to prove (by solid scientific proofs besides other means) that the tragedy of 9/11/2001 is actually a horrible Hollywood 'perfect' crime in which 'ALL' systems (hence not just the US one) in the world are involved, directly or indirectly (yes, even the Syrian one). So you can be sure that whatever you (and most of the world) are made to believe has to be true because its is protected by all men on power in the world. So please don't worry ;)

                              How many here heard of the millions of kids who were raised in fear in today's Israel since its creation; created a few years after destroying Europe in WW2 (destroyed for the glory of... you guess). Most of them, when adult, had no choice but to be fanatic radical believers to the point they can slaughter the demon in a baby (as they were taught) if he is not Jewish and his parents had properties on the Promised Land. So how could the world hear of the today's kids (also by millions) who are raised after the great success on 9/11/2001 to play the terrorists in the "War on Terror" series... since year 2010?

                              And since almost all ordinary people have no idea of what was planned against them by their men on power, they won't hear of what is scheduled for the next decades in this famous series "War on Terror". I am afraid that Europe will be 're-destroyed' in the 20's :( Millions of European kids were already prepared to play the 9/11 terrorists in this beautiful continent. The same is prepared against the Chinese people but I am not sure if they will be hit by Terror (continuous as in the Arab Spring) also in the 20's or it will be postponed to the after next decade (30's). After all, Obama was very clear on this point that the great nations (mainly USA and Russia) will not be able defeating Al-Qaeda (known now as ISIS) before many decades... right? Now you know why Obama was instructed to say this ;)

                              Therefore, the only thing that ordinary persons in the world (the targets in the "War on Terror" endless series) can do is to wish each other... whatever is good.

                              Kerim
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