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Does prison solve anything?

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    #16
    I wonder what would happen if we were to have a similar prison system to say Norway or Denmark, the problem is though is that the U.S. has a much higher proportion of crime for our population even if you were to adjust for us having such a larger population

    To punish or rehabilitate, what is the goal of correctional justice?

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      #17
      I think that prison is great for the criminals who will never be safe in society. The problem is that you have criminals who's crimes are illegal but not dangerous to other people being put with the serial killers, the terrorist, the rapist, and other harder criminals. By default the smaller criminals have to become harder and meaner to survive jail. Jail essential trains lesser criminals into being harder ones. I'm not against hard punishment for breaking the law but I wonder if their time wouldn't be better spent performing hard labor to keep them out of the jail environment. There is a place in Colorado, or Wyoming, that has the inmates work a farm and learn how about farming and husbandry while they are in jail. It teaches them a trade and they can make money for their time. It's also a safer environment than the yard. Jail needs to reimagined so that it stops producing worse criminals than the ones that came in.

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        #18
        Originally posted by LeapOfFaith89 View Post
        It teaches them a trade and they can make money for their time.
        What do you mean they can make money for their time? Isn't their time supposed to be restitution for the crimes? For example, in secular society when someone takes the life of another, society in all its wisdom deems the time of the guilty party worthy compensation for the life they took as if their time is so valuable. They are then made "slaves of the state". I'm just asking for clarification of whether or not you support slavery of the state? Or whether you think inmates should be paid for their services? As to my example, I believe if a person is found guilty of taking the life of another (murder), then no other restitution or punishment will do besides life for a life. Your thoughts?

        God bless,
        William

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          #19
          Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.

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            #20
            Originally posted by artyarson View Post
            Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.
            Yes. A very heart warming experience in some cases. Some of the churches I have attended have members that were prior prison inmates. One in particular died in a motorcycle accident a few years ago. Thousands showed up for his funeral. He was the drummer of the worship band in church. These men turned their life around, they were transformed and renewed by the words spoken to them in the prison ministry.

            On the other hand, I have met those that never were subjected to prison ministries, and in person they seemed to think they were being oppressed by the law. I think it is very common for the unrighteous to feel oppressed, whether by the law of man, religion, or by God.

            God bless,
            William

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              #21
              Yes, prison is a great boon to society PROVIDED that the person who is imprisoned is actually guilty of the crime that was committed. There is a concept of justice, mercy and forgiveness that is literally writ large throughout many of the books of the Bible, both in the Old and New Testaments. The first concept of the law was akin to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and that morphed into a more merciful view of justice as espoused by Jesus. In the encounter with Zacchaeus in Luke 19:1-10, Jesus remarked that “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
              Now, salvation came in response to the restitution that Zacchaeus promised to pay .. fourfold more than the money he extorted originally. In the same way, restitution and repayment for crimes committed is justice and a prerequisite for a peaceful and tolerant society. Some crimes are serious enough, that the person is a threat to society if he/she were to remain free so prison is the method used to make repayment for the crime(s) committed while safeguarding society.

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                #22
                Originally posted by artyarson View Post
                Have you ever guys met and interacted with a former prisoner? What was the experience like? Please, share your stories.
                I'm one of them. So I know first hand how it feels. As I've said earlier, prison is suppose to be a correctional facility. They are to give us options on how to be better citizens. Some guys go in to jail and come out even worse as they feel like pent up dogs and they have no other job skill but to break the law again to get ahead in life.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by William View Post

                  What do you mean they can make money for their time? Isn't their time supposed to be restitution for the crimes? For example, in secular society when someone takes the life of another, society in all its wisdom deems the time of the guilty party worthy compensation for the life they took as if their time is so valuable. They are then made "slaves of the state". I'm just asking for clarification of whether or not you support slavery of the state? Or whether you think inmates should be paid for their services? As to my example, I believe if a person is found guilty of taking the life of another (murder), then no other restitution or punishment will do besides life for a life. Your thoughts?

                  God bless,
                  William
                  I think it's also worth mentioning that most people tend to forget how recent of a trend this is. Back in history, you were only imprisoned while awaiting a sentence or if you were a high profile person (such as royalty, politician, military etc). Other than that, it was: a death sentence, exile or some form of public retribution. This idea that we're going to send criminals by the millions to prison with dozens of years sentence and with no other plan, and expect it to solve the security situation seems like utter negligence to me.
                  Last edited by CarlosTL; 07-14-2016, 10:51 AM.

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                    #24
                    The prison ought to be a correctional facility. A place where people are sent in order to have their behaviour normalized so as to have the right attitude that will fit into any normal society. It is quite unfortunate that inmates when returning from prison become worsen than the time they left. This shouldn't be. It simply means the purpose of sending people to prison has been defeated. May God help our society.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by emuzeskylow View Post
                      The prison ought to be a correctional facility. A place where people are sent in order to have their behaviour normalized so as to have the right attitude that will fit into any normal society. It is quite unfortunate that inmates when returning from prison become worsen than the time they left. This shouldn't be. It simply means the purpose of sending people to prison has been defeated. May God help our society.

                      Correct. From my understanding in the USA these prisons are actually named correctional facility, but most of the time because of overcrowding, there is no rehabilitation. I actually slept on the floor of a cell that was actually meant to hold 2 people, but threw 3 guys in there. The only rehabilitation there is, is in the form of a community television set. Most of the guys in there have no access to worship of any kind, and grow weary. When they eventually do get out, they come out lost and will get back into unlawfulness to make a living.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by emuzeskylow View Post
                        The prison ought to be a correctional facility. A place where people are sent in order to have their behaviour normalized so as to have the right attitude that will fit into any normal society. It is quite unfortunate that inmates when returning from prison become worsen than the time they left. This shouldn't be. It simply means the purpose of sending people to prison has been defeated. May God help our society.
                        I'm sure some will point to society or law abiding citizens and tell them that they are responsible whether by ideology or financially. It amazes me how on one hand a society can promote solidarity and then on the other individuality. Society can make an attempt to indoctrinate or transform people's minds according to its standards, but if the unjust refuse to conform or submit to authority they will reject responsibility and accountability for themselves to society. Our society is really becoming a gray area the further it strays from God's word. For example, Kim Davis was thrown into jail because she refused to compromise on her faithful duties as a Christian. Some would love to see her indoctrinated or rehabilitated according to liberal ideology which is at odds with the Christian faith.

                        God bless,
                        William

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by turnb43 View Post
                          I wonder what would happen if we were to have a similar prison system to say Norway or Denmark, the problem is though is that the U.S. has a much higher proportion of crime for our population even if you were to adjust for us having such a larger population

                          To punish or rehabilitate, what is the goal of correctional justice?
                          We all make mistakes. There is punishment, then there is discipline.
                          Punishment is simply, "You did this, now I'll do this back."
                          Discipline is, "You did wrong, now I'm going to try and show you how to get back on track."

                          Punishment is NOT what we need. Our tax dollars go to locking people up. We need discipline.
                          But, there are certain cases (As with insane people, serial killers, rapists, ect...) where they should remain in prison for the rest of their lives.
                          People who have robbed, or have done a smaller crime, should have jail time, just not for life. Maybe a few weeks, then they are watched closely, and given lots of counsel. Life counseling, ect...
                          Because, it seems, that even after getting out of prison, nobody has learned their lesson (not always, but there are plenty of people who get out of jail, and then go do crime once again). It doesn't seem very effective.
                          In my point of view, it is more of a, "We don't want to deal with you in the outside world, so, you'll be locked up."
                          Just my two cents.

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                            #28
                            I favor a system with both punishment and rehabilitation as it depends on the crime and if that person is repentant or not. Those who cannot be rehabilitated or cannot see that they have done wrong, then there is no choice but to take away their freedom and protect society from them.

                            The problem is rehabilitation costs more money and time, and there are not enough resources to fund this. I favor rehabilitation especially for the younger or first time offender, but it doesn't always work and once they are out they commit another crime.

                            I worked with a chap when I did some volunteer work in a homeless shelter, and he was in charge. After a couple of days he told me he had been in jail as a teenager and told me that it had taught him what not to do. At first I was a little afraid, but he was a down to earth and honest chap who had learned his lesson. He admitted he had done stupid and bad things when he was younger, and now he was working to to help others. Rehabilitation can work.

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                              #29
                              Many people that go to prison don't ever change, and that's the sad thing about them being locked up, and then going right back to what they were doing before.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                If the court system really did treat everyone equally, and had sentences that fit crimes rather than mandatory sentencing, it might work. However, if you have ever seen the reality of court in action, you will quickly see that there is a gross discrepancy in the way the poor are treated. Wealthy people with their own paid lawyers go first, are treated with more respect, and are given serious time by the court and their attorneys. They almost always get a good break. The poor people who get a public defender, who are often uneducated about their rights, are literally scared into pleading guilty to save the defender any work. Often they do not understand their rights, are afraid, and cowed into pleading guilty to things they never did in order to take some deal because the defender does not have any time to build a proper case for them. The poor end up looking like a mass of chickens on a conveyer belt just helplessly going to slaughter. The way court runs once the 'real' lawyers leave and the poor are then shuffled forth is sickening and disheartening. If you see it in action, you will know without a doubt that 'justice' is not applied equally at all. Until all people have a truly equal chance in court, I am afraid some of those people filling the prisons will just be poor people that were thrown under the bus by overworked public defenders. I agree that anyone that has done anything violent, like rape or attacking people, are unsafe to be allowed to terrorize society. I also don't see how throwing some scared poor kid with some drugs in his pocket in there for a longer sentence than a rapist is going to solve much. The system as it is, is a mess. But it starts with the way the law is enforced and with our imbalanced judicial system. The problem begins there, not in the prison.

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