Spiritual warfare is the Christian concept that the Devil and demons attempt to thwart Good and the will of God.

Is that The Holy Spirit?

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    Is that The Holy Spirit?

    My pentacostal/carismatic brethren please don't take offence to this, I'm posting this thread out concern.

    I understand there's prophecies, dreams, vision, and sometimes people will just know things that they wouldn't have a way of knowing, but where do these things come from and how can we know if it's coming from God? Plenty of men have done miraculous things, not all men of God though.
    ​Let's take ​​look in Exodus 7:20-22. Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. The fish in the Nile died and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.
    But the Egyptian magicians did the things by their secret arts.
    ​​​​​ Here we see the ungodly can perform miricales similar to real men of God.
    Matt. 24:24 For false Christ and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect- if that were possible.
    2 Thess. 2:9. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders.

    Whatever your told by anyone must be tested with God's word. 2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. (see also, 2 Tim. 3:16-17, 2 Tim. 4:2, and Heb. 4:12.)

    Another thing to consider is that miracles were almost exclusive to Christ, the apostles and some aquaintecnes of the apostles and served to validate the Gospel. Acts 2:43, Acts 5:12,
    2 Cor. 12:12, Heb. 2:4.

    Test your apostles, prophets and yoursevels by God's word and seek truth above miracles. Matt. 12:38-41.

    Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.
    ​​​​ May Christ lead us in truth and rightiousness.

    #2
    How can we tell if a man is of God? I asked Jesus this and the answer I got after awhile was that if a person is of God they won't want anything from you but will want to give you help. They'll not want you to give them anything.

    ​​​​​​I know by your post that you are a denominational disciple. Are you aware that denying the gifts that God had provided for ministry among His people is no different from those that use God's word wrongly?

    I know that you have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit and that you have been taught that God no longer does these things. Also that if you cannot explain something by reason that it must not be if God.

    I feel no anger here my friend at all only frustration. Jesus saved me outside of church walls (see Ezekiel chapter 34). I thank my God I was not taught all the things my heavenly father no longer does. Married 14 years and no children. Medically impossible. Jesus promised us a son and sent him. Only God makes life.


    How do I know the things I've experienced are from God? Like the apostles I can only speak the things I seen and heard. None of the things ever happened in the 33 years I was unsaved. The devil NEVER did anything good to me! The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus comes to give me abundant life. The people from churches that came to me NEVER ever told me about the love of God and His forgiveness. Just "COME TO OUR CHURCH".


    Jesus loved me enough to rescue me, save me, baptize me in His Holy Spirit.

    I probably shouldn't have replied to you but feel empathy for you because God has been so limited in your experience. What if you looked at the Bible as if everything in it were true? All of it. All for today. Who told you that God got out of the miracle business? If you think we no longer need miracles take a stroll through the hospitals, nursing homes. The gifts of the spirit, the great commission of Mark.
    Mark 16:15-18 KJVS
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


    I've walked with the Lord for 40 years seeing His hand in our life and the lives of others. I've seen churches in America grow cold and dead. They deny more and more even the preaching of the blood and cross of Jesus. They deny that God continues to do all the things He did on the day of Pentecost.

    I too want nothing from any man but to admonish them to believe the Bible over denominational traditions.
    Comment>

      #3
      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      How can we tell if a man is of God? I asked Jesus this and the answer I got after awhile was that if a person is of God they won't want anything from you but will want to give you help. They'll not want you to give them anything.
      So you're suggesting that Christians are never in need of charity? Since you asked Jesus this and the answer you claim is from him please provide the Scriptures to back up you claim. If you cannot are we to take your word about it and write these things down? That is, unless you suggest that what Jesus says needs not be written down? I take it you believe the Canon is not closed and Scripture is being written today? Perhaps you can perform some miracles to authenticate your office?

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      I know by your post that you are a denominational disciple. Are you aware that denying the gifts that God had provided for ministry among His people is no different from those that use God's word wrongly?
      So am I. Are you aware of that the Pentecostal/Charismatics are a denomination/movement which are the most exploited denomination in Protestantism? And what gifts are you speaking about? Waving hands as if you're in a Woodstock concert? Perhaps unbiblical holy laughter? Have you ever slayed someone in the spirit punched another in the gut or kicked a dying man in the area he has cancer like Todd Bentley? Maybe you babble like an imbecile and call it a tongue? Or maybe you translate by lying to others as to what that gibberish meant? Do you do those things as Pentecostals/Charismatics teach and do?

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      I know that you have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit and that you have been taught that God no longer does these things. Also that if you cannot explain something by reason that it must not be if God.
      No, you don't know that. And I find your statement completely unacceptable on this board. Moderators will address you and your response.

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      I feel no anger here my friend at all only frustration.
      Likewise, I feel total frustration towards a collective body that rejects sound theology. Without orthodox theology they have idolatry and blasphemy.

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      I probably shouldn't have replied to you but feel empathy for you because God has been so limited in your experience.
      And that's your problem. You place experience above Scripture. If you lie and get ahead in life should you lie if lying goes against what Scripture states? If you say no because Scripture says so and takes precedent over your experience why don't you follow the principle of Sola Scriptura? Perhaps if more Pentecostal/Charismatics placed Scripture above experiences they'd be more sound and less deceived by con artists.

      For example:

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      The people from churches that came to me NEVER ever told me about the love of God and His forgiveness.
      Should a person believe that they are forgiven without doubting though they may never feel or see it (experience)? Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding".

      Originally posted by clawmute View Post
      I too want nothing from any man but to admonish them to believe the Bible over denominational traditions.
      The fact that Innerfire uses Scriptures and teaches Sola Scriptura and not tradition is proof that he is biblical.

      God bless,
      William
      Comment>

        #4
        Originally posted by clawmute View Post
        How can we tell if a man is of God? I asked Jesus this and the answer I got after awhile was that if a person is of God they won't want anything from you but will want to give you help. They'll not want you to give them anything.

        ​​​​​​I know by your post that you are a denominational disciple. Are you aware that denying the gifts that God had provided for ministry among His people is no different from those that use God's word wrongly?

        I know that you have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit and that you have been taught that God no longer does these things. Also that if you cannot explain something by reason that it must not be if God.

        I feel no anger here my friend at all only frustration. Jesus saved me outside of church walls (see Ezekiel chapter 34). I thank my God I was not taught all the things my heavenly father no longer does. Married 14 years and no children. Medically impossible. Jesus promised us a son and sent him. Only God makes life.

        How do I know the things I've experienced are from God? Like the apostles I can only speak the things I seen and heard. None of the things ever happened in the 33 years I was unsaved. The devil NEVER did anything good to me! The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus comes to give me abundant life. The people from churches that came to me NEVER ever told me about the love of God and His forgiveness. Just "COME TO OUR CHURCH".

        Jesus loved me enough to rescue me, save me, baptize me in His Holy Spirit.

        I probably shouldn't have replied to you but feel empathy for you because God has been so limited in your experience. What if you looked at the Bible as if everything in it were true? All of it. All for today. Who told you that God got out of the miracle business? If you think we no longer need miracles take a stroll through the hospitals, nursing homes. The gifts of the spirit, the great commission of Mark.
        Mark 16:15-18 KJVS
        And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

        I've walked with the Lord for 40 years seeing His hand in our life and the lives of others. I've seen churches in America grow cold and dead. They deny more and more even the preaching of the blood and cross of Jesus. They deny that God continues to do all the things He did on the day of Pentecost.

        I too want nothing from any man but to admonish them to believe the Bible over denominational traditions.
        Hold up!

        First Innerfire89 makes a valid point. His OP is a call to believers to be careful. He is correct when he states "Plenty of men have done miraculous things, not all men of God though." Thus his very Biblical admonition to test the spirit by the Word is completely sound.

        Second, you have read into his comments something that is not there. No where does Innerfire89 say or even suggest "God got out of the miracle business." In fact his post declares the opposite.

        Third, it is one thing to question his theology, his interpretation of Scripture, but to question his salvation is unacceptable. You are in no position to question his salvation simply because you disagree with his post especially when you have clearly misrepresented his OP.
        Comment>

          #5
          Originally posted by clawmute View Post
          How can we tell if a man is of God? I asked Jesus this and the answer I got after awhile was that if a person is of God they won't want anything from you but will want to give you help. They'll not want you to give them anything.

          ​​​​​​I know by your post that you are a denominational disciple. Are you aware that denying the gifts that God had provided for ministry among His people is no different from those that use God's word wrongly?

          I know that you have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit and that you have been taught that God no longer does these things. Also that if you cannot explain something by reason that it must not be if God.

          I feel no anger here my friend at all only frustration. Jesus saved me outside of church walls (see Ezekiel chapter 34). I thank my God I was not taught all the things my heavenly father no longer does. Married 14 years and no children. Medically impossible. Jesus promised us a son and sent him. Only God makes life.


          How do I know the things I've experienced are from God? Like the apostles I can only speak the things I seen and heard. None of the things ever happened in the 33 years I was unsaved. The devil NEVER did anything good to me! The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus comes to give me abundant life. The people from churches that came to me NEVER ever told me about the love of God and His forgiveness. Just "COME TO OUR CHURCH".


          Jesus loved me enough to rescue me, save me, baptize me in His Holy Spirit.

          I probably shouldn't have replied to you but feel empathy for you because God has been so limited in your experience. What if you looked at the Bible as if everything in it were true? All of it. All for today. Who told you that God got out of the miracle business? If you think we no longer need miracles take a stroll through the hospitals, nursing homes. The gifts of the spirit, the great commission of Mark.
          Mark 16:15-18 KJVS
          And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


          I've walked with the Lord for 40 years seeing His hand in our life and the lives of others. I've seen churches in America grow cold and dead. They deny more and more even the preaching of the blood and cross of Jesus. They deny that God continues to do all the things He did on the day of Pentecost.

          I too want nothing from any man but to admonish them to believe the Bible over denominational traditions.
          I was baptized in the name of The Farther, The Son and The Holy Spirit, that's the one and only baptism.

          Miracles do in fact still happen, people are healed though prayer and any time a sinner repents and turns to Christ for salvation is a miracle.
          And there are still gifts, but some have ceased because thier purpose was complete.
          1 Cor. 13:8-10 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophesies, they shall; whether there be tounges, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
          For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
          But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. Now the perfect was to come is completed Scripture, if we still had prophets their word would be counted as Scripture because a word from God is a word from God, but we see at the end of Rev. that Scripture is finished and not add or take away one word or be damned.

          God is not limited in my experience, I'm a new person, new creature with a true outlook in life with an eternity to invest in. Not to be a jerk, but have been pushed by some apostle or having tounges prayed over me did nothing.
          Comment>

            #6
            Originally posted by clawmute View Post
            How can we tell if a man is of God? I asked Jesus this and the answer I got after awhile was that if a person is of God they won't want anything from you but will want to give you help. They'll not want you to give them anything.
            Hi Clawmute, the Bible gives us several ways that a man might fulfill the command to "test himself, to see that he is in the faith" .. 2 Corinthians 13:5, but I don't remember the one that you just mentioned above being among them. That doesn't mean that it isn't there, or at least alluded to, of course, so if I've missed it, please point it out. Thanks!

            I believe that God, in giving us the church, gave us to each other to minister to/serve one another. And I believe that God intends that His people would not only serve/minister 'to' others in the body, but that He also intends that we not only allow, but even expect that our brothers and sisters in Christ are there to minister to us when we are in need (be it physically, emotionally, and/or spiritually). In fact, I believe that such an understanding regarding two-way fellowship/ministry within the body is one of the signs that accompanies those who are mature in the faith.

            We are called to love and care for others in the body, but we are are called and expected to allow them to love and care for us as well (IOW, as the need arises in either case).

            Perhaps I've misunderstood your meaning however. If I have, please elaborate.

            Thanks

            Yours and His,
            David

            Hebrews 10
            24 Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
            25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

            Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

            "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

            "Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~A. W. Pink

            "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

            "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
            Comment>
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