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Do we need any texts....

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  • Do we need any texts....

    This is slightly derrived from another thread about translations.
    A response had me thining but I didn't want to de-rail the conversation so adding it here.

    People notice with me that I'm stubborn.
    The main thing I'm stubborn about is always following what I believe the right thing to do (with common sense of course, if I'm confident of facts etc....).

    I believe that God gave us the feelings of guilt, love, caring, sadness, passion......and all the others as a way of letting us know what it the right way to act.
    Why would an all powerful God need to use written word when they could mould us with the right feelings to act as they wanted?

    I 100% believe in God, just not confident on the things built around God by people.

    Thank you for any direction or your thoughts :)

  • #2
    Originally posted by FruitNNut View Post
    This is slightly derrived from another thread about translations.
    A response had me thining but I didn't want to de-rail the conversation so adding it here.

    People notice with me that I'm stubborn.
    The main thing I'm stubborn about is always following what I believe the right thing to do (with common sense of course, if I'm confident of facts etc....).

    I believe that God gave us the feelings of guilt, love, caring, sadness, passion......and all the others as a way of letting us know what it the right way to act.
    Why would an all powerful God need to use written word when they could mould us with the right feelings to act as they wanted?

    I 100% believe in God, just not confident on the things built around God by people.

    Thank you for any direction or your thoughts :)
    Hello FruitNNut,

    In short the view you're expressing isn't anything new. It is called Pelagianism, which is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid.

    A biblical view on this subject can be summed up under the doctrine of Total Depravity. Basically, one really needs to water down God's holiness and redefine good or the "right thing" which one does. In human terms good may be helping an old lady across the street. I suggest reading God's commandments.

    Basically, your view suggest that man in himself has no need for Jesus Christ. He is basically good and only in need of a little guidance, whereas Calvinism's doctrine of Total Depravity suggest that man's nature is thoroughly corrupt and sinful as a result from the fall. If you read the link to the commandments I provided you'll see there are actually 623 laws, not just ten. But lets address a few of the big ten, if you're unfamiliar, Ray Comfort usually asks these questions in demonstrating man's depravity:

    Questions:
    1. Have you ever taken the Lord's name in vain?
    2. Have you ever lied? What do you a person that lies?
    3. Have you ever stole anything? What do you call a person that steals things?
    4. Have you ever looked upon another with lust? Do you know what Jesus said about those that have lusted after another?

    Now, I ask you, are you a good person that has been molded by right "feelings"?

    Being a Christian doesn't mean that we do not sin. But our conversion begins with confessing our sins and need for Christ Jesus.

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      With the 4 questions, you can answer either one either way and it isn't good or bad unless the situation is taken into account.
      Juding the situation is done by feeling (which of course is based on experience and knowledge).
      1. I wouldn't use the lords name in vain around someone it would upset but if I knew my company wouldn't be offended or it was just me then I don't see a problem
      2. We all lie, I just hope I use a lie at the right place to save feelings or for a greater good
      3. Stealing of course is bad, but what if you had to steal something back to return it someone that had it stole off them first?
      4. Lust is a natural sexual response we all have, we made to feel those feelings else why would we have them? There would be a problem if we acted on them without thought but the feeling isn't a problem

      I don't judge myself as good because I fit those commandments, I judge myself good as I try my best to either better a situation or at least not make it worse :)

      I mean no offense by any of my comments and am really interested in getting these views out and bounced around.
      Thank you for you response, I'm going to read up on some of the links you posted :)
      Comment>

      • #4
        Man may not need written texts, Enoch, Abraham and others didn't have them but a time came when God wanted those who Worshipped Him to be perfect. That's why the laws were given. And when they were given, the Israelites were told to write them down and teach them to their children [forever]. That's why we need those texts because humans can forget things.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Smithee View Post
          Man may not need written texts, Enoch, Abraham and others didn't have them but a time came when God wanted those who Worshipped Him to be perfect. That's why the laws were given. And when they were given, the Israelites were told to write them down and teach them to their children [forever]. That's why we need those texts because humans can forget things.

          But we still feel those natural emotions/feelings that were given to us by God, we can never forget those :)
          Written word is forever being fought over, misunderstood and can be twisted.
          Love always feels like love,
          Shame always feels like shame,
          Guilt, happiness, pride, desire......I just think we feel these because of more than just an evoloutionary reason :)
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          • #6
            Everything we know about God comes from the Bible. Without a belief in the accuracy and importance of the Bible, our ´religion´ is whatever we want it to be. You can wake up tomorrow and completely change your beliefs and change who you think God is and his traits. When you start having the power to decide who God is, then God is no longer a god... he is just your own imagination and creation. It takes a special kinda arrogance to just say ´well this is who I think my God is...´
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            • #7
              Originally posted by petesede View Post
              Everything we know about God comes from the Bible.
              So before there was a Bible people knew nothing about God?
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Origen View Post
                So before there was a Bible people knew nothing about God?
                God revealed himself directly to the people of the OT. But I was imprecise with my wording.. not ´bible´ but texts. the Jews had religious texts very early, and learned to reproduce them with amazing accuracy. The scrolls were written with exactly the same line length so they could proofread very easily. Entire scrolls were discarded if a single line was ´short´ a letter.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by petesede View Post
                  the Jews had religious texts very early, and learned to reproduce them with amazing accuracy. The scrolls were written with exactly the same line length so they could proofread very easily. Entire scrolls were discarded if a single line was ´short´ a letter.
                  Let me make sure I understand you. Are you saying that every line was exactly the same length?
                  Last edited by Origen; 05-05-2016, 01:49 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    Let me make sure I understand you. Are you saying that every line was exactly the same length?
                    Not like every line had exactly the same number of characters as the lines above it. But the copies were like photocopies of each other. If the original scroll had 78 characters on a line, the person scribing the copy had 78 characters on the line. They never used smaller writing to fit more words on a scroll. So scroll 8, line 14, the last word would be exactly the same on thousands of scroll 8s. The Jews were also insane about memorizing their texts and at different ages you would have to have memorized more of it until at age 13ish, you would have all 5 books memorized. With so many people having memorized the texts, it would be impossible for an error to go unnoticed.
                    Comment>
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