Discuss science topics such as creation and evolution and how they relate to Christianity.

Look what the pope said

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  • Look what the pope said

    Ran across this quote by the pope and I have to say I'm unimpressed... Oh well.

    Thought of you guys😀


    Pope Francis was quoted as saying, “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.“The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it.”

    Source: The Pope and Evolution | Theology Unchained

  • #2
    I for one, thought this was an interesting statement from the Pope. Basically he's putting forth the bridge theory between complete denial of science and the complete denial of God's act of creation.

    Also, yes, the science pertaining the Big Bang theory might explain the events after the explosion up until today but it says nothing about what instigated it. There's only weak theories on what it was that triggered the whole thing and later theories involving hyperspace and multiverse don't really help on that aspect. They only serve to point out there's something bigger out there, more convoluted than we ever imagined. So on that regard there's certainly room for intelligent design.

    In my opinion this is a very important step towards battling the phobic stance that many scientists and believers have for each other...which is becoming too prominent these days. I remember I had a math professor back at school, a very serious scientist who acted as a consult to the local public education system in his spare time, he used to tell us that hard science isn't an arbitrary thing that man made; math is universal through geometry, physics, chemistry, etc, therefore the very existence of a brilliant design that can only be perceived by conscious organisms capable of abstract thinking like humans is more of a thumbprint of God upon Creation rather than evidence of His absence.
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    • #3
      What struck me as sad was that The Pope said he didn't believe God could create different forms of life by his own power.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by wfredeemed009 View Post
        What struck me as sad was that The Pope said he didn't believe God could create different forms of life by his own power.
        I'm not sure that's what he meant. Or at least the way I perceived the "no magic wand" part, was that God didn't pull the world out of thin air, rather built it layer by layer and filled it until it was complete. Or alternatively that He bothered to create the world in a meticulous process, rather than creating on a mere whim. That we humans, sort of see slow and longterm processes as a mundane thing, even though they hold a certain magnificence, and we are therefore likely to take this kind of slow change for granted, because we don't live long enough to see where the path leads, or in this case where the path started. Remember, to God our sense of time is laughable.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by wfredeemed009 View Post
          What struck me as sad was that The Pope said he didn't believe God could create different forms of life by his own power.
          Read it the same way, and I took his statement as meaning he does not believe in the supernatural.

          The first and second laws of thermodynamics demonstrate that the Universe is dying and winding down from an ultimate heat death. What has an ending has a beginning and therefore finite. These two laws in thermodynamics that have never been observed to contradict nature, which in itself, if wrong, demonstrates absolutely no certainty on the part of science.

          Julianne You mentioned the multiverse "theory" which has been debunked over a decade ago. I do not believe it is a theory but a hypothesis, a hypothesis that attempted to demonstrate how the universe is infinite ... .

          The multiverse hypothesis is based on the supposition that what we have to this point considered to be “the universe” is but a small component of a vast, possibly infinite, assemblage of universes. The multiverse principle is an attempt to evade evidence for the apparent fine-tuning of cosmic laws, values and constants such that the universe would be conducive to bio-habitability. The core thesis of the multiverse concept attempts to expand one’s probabilistic resources beyond that which is available in the observable universe such that the likelihood of attaining a single bio-habitable universe by chance is rendered more plausible.
          In other words, like macro evolution, the multiverse hypothesis is not observable, repeatable or testable. Therefore, it hardly qualifies as science, but rather a fictional narration of secular "religion". The absence of independent philosophical and/or scientific evidence for the existence of a universe-ensemble, the concept remains nothing more than radical metaphysical conjecture.

          God bless,
          William
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          • #6
            Originally posted by William


            Julianne You mentioned the multiverse "theory" which has been debunked over a decade ago. I do not believe it is a theory but a hypothesis, a hypothesis that attempted to demonstrate how the universe is infinite ... .
            .

            God bless,
            William
            Proponents of the "multi-verse theory", often try to justify their claims by saying that the universe is infinite. To believe something like that, that has to take faith. An infinite universe that has a mind of its own sounds like a deity to me...
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            • #7
              Originally posted by William View Post
              Read it the same way, and I took his statement as meaning he does not believe in the supernatural.
              I get what you and wfredeemed009 are trying to say, but my doubt on this meaning of the Pope's words lies in that he'd have no motive to start suggesting that God isn't supernatural. It's not going to attract any more believers into Catholicism, as omitting the supernatural part would make the Catholic church look more like a philosophical current rather than a religious church. Rather if we intepret what he said in the sense that God doesn't need to go around the laws of physics, because He made them to be what He wanted from the birth of the universe, then this notion would appeal to scientists who feel estranged by the more extreme creationist views by people who completely reject any science & its applications, including modern medicine.

              This Pope seems to emphasise dimplomacy a lot. Otherwise I can't fathom why he'd say something like that.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Julianne

                I get what you and wfredeemed009 are trying to say, but my doubt on this meaning of the Pope's words lies in that he'd have no motive to start suggesting that God isn't supernatural. It's not going to attract any more believers into Catholicism, as omitting the supernatural part would make the Catholic church look more like a philosophical current rather than a religious church. Rather if we intepret what he said in the sense that God doesn't need to go around the laws of physics, because He made them to be what He wanted from the birth of the universe, then this notion would appeal to scientists who feel estranged by the more extreme creationist views by people who completely reject any science & its applications, including modern medicine.

                This Pope seems to emphasise dimplomacy a lot. Otherwise I can't fathom why he'd say something like that.
                Maybe you're right, I don't really know what he's thinking. However, I wait, seeing how he will try to appease our post-modern society next. This quote above just shows me Pope Francis is likely to assign credit somewhere else when it truly belongs to God. Sola Deo gloria!
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