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Unforgivable Sin

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  • Unforgivable Sin

    Hebrews 6:4 KJV

    "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

    This was just worth sharing; let us all take this heavy admonishment to heart.

    Amen.

  • #2
    Hi Trist, who do you believe the author of Hebrews was addressing here? Also, what do you think of some of the terminology that's used in verses 4-6?

    I know that this is the principle passage used to demonstrate that a true Christian can lose his/her salvation, but every church I know of that teaches that a true Christian's salvation can be lost, also teaches that it can be regained (through confession and repentance). The problem is this however, there is nothing that is taught more clearly in this short passage than the fact that salvation, if it can be lost, cannot be regained. I wonder why those churches (as well the people who believe that salvation can be lost) always seem to skip over that part of the passage, like it doesn't even exist?

    Thanks!

    --David

    Hebrews 7
    25 He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

    "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

    "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

    "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

    "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by David Lee View Post
      Hi Trist, who do you believe the author of Hebrews was addressing here? Also, what do you think of some of the terminology that's used in verses 4-6?

      I know that this is the principle passage used to demonstrate that a true Christian can lose his/her salvation, but every church I know of that teaches that a true Christian's salvation can be lost, also teaches that it can be regained (through confession and repentance). The problem is this however, there is nothing that is taught more clearly in this short passage than the fact that salvation, if it can be lost, cannot be regained. I wonder why those churches (as well the people who believe that salvation can be lost) always seem to skip over that part of the passage, like it doesn't even exist?

      Thanks!

      --David

      Hebrews 7
      25 He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

      I would best describe those whom he is talking about as the individuals that were prayed for in Ephesians 1:17-18 KJV.

      I wonder such things too; every week. I have spent the past two months diligently reading my bible after work, praying that the spirit of wisdom be given to me each time if it be in the will of the Father, and when I read verses like these I am left scratching my head as to how so many denominations hold their silly views, or how many denominations try to weave around the fleet of ships that are convicting verses such as these. In the day of Noah only eight souls were saved in all the earth, and in the time of Elijah only 7,000 were set aside for the Lord. When I hear doctrines like "once saved always saved" being preached, it becomes no mystery to me when the Lord says only a remnant shall be saved. Reminds me of Matthew 23:13 KJV.

      As for Hebrews 7, He is certainly able, but I cannot know his mind.

      Amen.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Trist View Post
        I would best describe those whom he is talking about as the individuals that were prayed for in Ephesians 1:17-18 KJV.
        Interesting! Why those folks in particular? I ask because the Book of Hebrews was written to, well, Jewish Christians (or "almost" Jewish Christians), and the Book of Ephesians was written specifically to Gentile saints .. e.g. Ephesians 1:1b, Ephesians 2:11.

        Thanks!
        Last edited by David Lee; 06-26-2017, 12:58 PM.
        Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

        "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

        "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

        "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

        "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Trist View Post
          In the day of Noah only eight souls were saved in all the earth, and in the time of Elijah only 7,000 were set aside for the Lord. When I hear doctrines like "once saved always saved" being preached, it becomes no mystery to me when the Lord says only a remnant shall be saved. Reminds me of Matthew 23:13 KJV.
          I'm not following you here. What does the loss of life on Earth at the time of the Flood have to do with true believers persevering in the faith to Glory?

          Thanks!

          --David
          Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

          "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

          "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

          "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

          "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
          Comment>

          • #6
            As for OSAS -- The fact that the Holy Spirit comes Immediately to indwell the person as soon as salvation takes place and never leaves the person. The 'sealing' power of the Holy Spirit. And that He has promised to Never leave us or forsake us. Points To eternal security. OSAS.
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Trist View Post
              "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."
              Most Christians fail to see that the scenario described above is a HYPOTHETICAL. Please note "IF they shall fall away". The very next verse confirms that this is a hypothetical scenario, but the passage is a warning nonetheless.

              But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

              Originally posted by Trist View Post
              When I hear doctrines like "once saved always saved" being preached, it becomes no mystery to me when the Lord says only a remnant shall be saved.
              The two doctrines are not contradictory at all. The eternal security of the believer is clearly taught throughout the New Testament. Also many are called but few are chosen is also true. In other words, a relatively small number of people (compared to all human beings) will be saved, but those who are genuinely saved cannot and will not lose their salvation.

              Why? Because God has guaranteed eternal life to all those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Which results in the New Birth, and since the New Birth is IRREVERSIBLE, the eternal security of the believer is assured. Just as a baby cannot be "unborn", a Christian cannot be unborn.

              Frankly, OSAS has a negative connotation because those who reject it claim that it frees the believer to live like the devil and yet remain saved. But those who are genuinely saved cannot live like the devil, since there are serious consequences. And if they are genuinely saved, they will have no desire to live like the devil.

              BTW the title of this thread refers to the unpardonable sin, which is something else altogether. As we see in Scripture, the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin, and that is essentially attributing to Satan the works of God.
              Comment>

              • #8
                I was also wondering what all of this has to do with the unpardonable sin. Because, as you've commented , they are two different subjects. Another thread I'd been on had a poster making comments that were seriously close to doing that. I was inwardly cringing when I read his comments.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  @ Trist -- The verse you mentioned - being hypothetical? Definitely a strong warning. And why do you say "Most Christians fail to see....." And How would you know how 'most' Christians interpret that verse. Maybe I'm sounding too critical.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                    @ Trist -- The verse you mentioned - being hypothetical? Definitely a strong warning. And why do you say "Most Christians fail to see....." And How would you know how 'most' Christians interpret that verse. Maybe I'm sounding too critical.
                    Just to clarify, this passage has been discussed on other Christians forums and Christians GENERALLY interpret it in one of two ways: (1) believers can lose their salvation or (2) those who are addressed came very close to being saved but were not really regenerated.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lucas View Post
                      Just to clarify, this passage has been discussed on other Christians forums and Christians GENERALLY interpret it in one of two ways: (1) believers can lose their salvation or (2) those who are addressed came very close to being saved but were not really regenerated.
                      How do you come "very close" to being saved?
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Trist View Post

                        How do you come "very close" to being saved?
                        By aligning yourself with Pelagian theology.

                        God bless,
                        William
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trist View Post
                          How do you come "very close" to being saved?
                          Absurd, isn't it? Not my theory, but that is what some people think about this passage. At the same time there are many who have been convicted and convinced yet refused to respond to the Gospel. They did indeed come very close to being saved, but in the end remained lost. A good example is the Rich Young Ruler who walked away from salvation because he loved his wealth more than he loved Christ.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lucas View Post
                            They did indeed come very close to being saved, but in the end remained lost. A good example is the Rich Young Ruler who walked away from salvation because he loved his wealth more than he loved Christ.
                            Absurd is right, but I'm not surprised that Christians think this. It is very common for a person's theological inconsistencies to lead to these conclusions. For example,

                            The Rich Young Ruler exhibited idolatry. He was not born again (Ezekiel 36:25-27), in other words God did not save the young man through His monergistic works. There is no close about it. Man cannot reach up to the heavens by pulling up his own bootstraps. In the very same chapter it is said that with man salvation is impossible. Something impossible is not even close.

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trist View Post
                              How do you come "very close" to being saved?
                              In the Book of Hebrews, these were Jews who had confessed Christ and were members of the visible church. They had come to know and understand that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and that both the Scriptures and the church teach that salvation cannot be had apart from Him ... yet they still refused to trust Him and in His works alone (and to come to Him on the basis of faith alone), as William just mentioned. For these, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins .. Hebrews 10:26b (and there are many who are just like them in the church today, those who want all the benefits God has to offer, but they don't want Him).

                              Just to be clear, these were not Jewish Christians who had lost their salvation, they were Jews who never had it to begin with. We know this because the Bible tells us that the Lord continues His mighty work in those who are His, and that He will see all of His saints through this life to Glory .. e.g Philippians 1:6, 2:13, Hebrews 7:25. We also know this because of the great and wonderful promises that He made to and about all who are elect .. e.g. John 6:37-40, 44, John 10:27-28, Ephesians 1:4-6.

                              Yours and His,
                              David

                              Matthew 7
                              21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
                              22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
                              23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
                              Last edited by David Lee; 06-26-2017, 06:51 PM.
                              Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                              "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                              "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                              "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                              "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                              Comment>
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