Against the World - Rapture Theology: The Arrogance of the West

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  • Against the World - Rapture Theology: The Arrogance of the West


  • #2
    I think the Arrogance of the West argument gives Pretribbers too much credit. I think they lack the capacity to appreciate the experiences of others, the real persecution other Christians have suffered. And, the Pretrib Rapture is really just candy gobbled up by mostly the same people who fall Faith Healers and Prosperity Teachers. They want to be healthy, wealthy, and never die. And, there’s plenty of crooked men welling to sell them what they want to buy.

    Here’s the Tribulation in the Bible:
    Mark 12:18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

    Not only is there no hint of Pretrib, “the Tribulation” passage powerfully contradicts Pretrib doctrine. Arrogance, childishness, whatever it is, Pretrib Dispensationalism doesn’t come from the Bible.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      And, the Pretrib Rapture is really just candy gobbled up by mostly the same people who fall Faith Healers and Prosperity Teachers.
      Can't agree with that, seeing that the Pre-Trib position is the only one that balances Scripture.

      It is a little difficult trying to discuss the issue with those who are A-Millennial, but it is possible, after going through the passages thought to be symbolic, metaphorical, or allegory.

      So if you would like to discuss it, I'd be glad to.


      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      Here’s the Tribulation in the Bible:
      Mark 12:18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
      Agreed, this is definitely a reference to the Tribulation.

      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post

      Not only is there no hint of Pretrib, “the Tribulation” passage powerfully contradicts Pretrib doctrine. Arrogance, childishness, whatever it is, Pretrib Dispensationalism doesn’t come from the Bible.
      Denying Dispensations in Scripture is always a head-scratcher for me. You do see the difference between the Age of Law and the Age of Grace, right? And prior to the establishment of the Covenant of Law, was there not a different economy? And prior to the Fall? Can we say those conditions can be seen afterward?

      The idea that the Pre-Trib view is so closely associated with a Dispensational Theology is not entirely accurate. Progressive Dispensationalists, for example, follow a closer approach to Catholics and Most Protestants. And most despise a literal approach to Scripture. But if we were to be consistent in the approach these groups take, we would miss much of what is being taught in Scripture, primarily in Prophecy.

      God bless.


      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
        They want to be healthy, wealthy, and never die.
        False argument, lol.

        As a Pre-Tribber, death holds no fear for me, I take the same view Paul did.

        Here is a Rapture passage for you to consider:

        2 Corinthians 5

        KJV

        1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

        Paul makes the point that our earthly bodies, that is, the physical abode of our spirit here, is not the only body we look forward to. He is speaking of the glorified form we will have, that is, the body we receive at the Rapture.



        2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

        Paul states, essentially, "We desire to be in those bodies, we yearn for that."


        3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

        Now, what does he mean...naked?

        He means dying and being without either that earthly tabernacle or...the one from Heaven, the glorified body. If we die prior to the Rapture, we will go to Heaven without either body.



        4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

        Here Paul makes it clear we are not desiring death, where we would be found in an unclothed (naked) state, but we are desiring to be clothed with that eternal body God has promised us, that which is not subject to death.



        5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

        6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

        7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

        8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

        He, God, created us in Christ for that very purpose, which is eternal life. We have the Eternal Indwelling of the Spirit of God as the earnest, the down-payment of that creative act and promise.

        And he makes the point that we would rather to be dead and with the Lord than here, but we maintain that it is not our desire, thus death should not be the desire of the Christian, nor should it produce fear.

        Now, all of that to ask one question: we know there is going to be a Rapture, a time at which the Church, as a whole, is transformed. We have been resurrected spiritually in the New Birth, and at the Rapture we will be resurrected physically. The question is, how can we have the Church resurrected as a whole and reconcile that with Revelation 20? Clearly there is a resurrection of believers, yet a thousand year period separating their resurrection and the resurrection of "the rest of the dead," who, when resurrected...stand before the Great White Throne.

        While our A-millennial brethren deny a literal thousand years, still I have found not one person that can reconcile Prophecy of both Old and New Testaments to that position without literally (no pun intended) denying many other teachings. Prophecy did not change when Revelation was written, it is no different than the Prophecy of the Old Testament. The Old Testament taught a coming Kingdom which has as of yet not been fulfilled. We do not see animals docile, nor men considered babes when they die at 100 years old.

        And that Kingdom is key to understanding not only Revelation, but the Gospels themselves. When Christ sent the Disciples out to preach, they did not preach the Gospel of Christ, but the Gospel of the Kingdom.

        And it might surprise some to hear me say that Peter was in opposition to the Gospel of Christ.


        God bless.
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