Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
atpollard

Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected For?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Maggie said:

 I do believe we have the free will to decline the gift of Grace.

Hello Maggie,

 

Again, we are using that word Grace. I asked, "Please clarify, are you suggesting that faith is a prerequisite to Grace? And if so, please clarify what "grace" entails in relation to the verses in question."

 

Maggie, the reason I am asking this is because I do not know what you think. Would you consider Election and Regeneration an act of Grace? If so, I suspect timing has a lot to do with this. If Election takes place before the foundation of the world, then how is man's free will a factor? As I have indicated in a previous post some are quite man centered in doctrine. They believe God looked down through corridors of time and foreseen who would choose Him. They base election on what God saw man had done first (Synergism). Man thereby chooses God before Regeneration. Of course if you believe this then I have to ask what does Regeneration mean to you?

 

Please don't answer in this thread. I'm actually trying to get it back on track to the OP. This thread is about what Election is for.

 

Here's a thread I'd like you to consider, but if it doesn't answer your questions adequately I encourage you to create a thread of your own in the Calvinism category.

 

God bless,

William

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:40 PM, William said:

Ask Paul about Esau. What is the term used when God, before anyone does good or bad .... 

 

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:20 AM, William said:

You didn't answer the question. Obviously you do not believe life begins at conception. And please provide the verses that says God "saw Esau's life before he lived it and God hated him".

 

When does "election" occur? And is the Father's election based on any conditions?

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, all I have been doing is saying how can the unborn be guilty , I would think it is obvious I believe life begins at conception.

If life didn't begin at conception, why would I be arguing that the stillborn are innocent

Why would God hate Esau? We are commanded to love our enemy's, yet God hates Esau. Why would God hate Esau?

 

I would suggest its like Maggie said, God is Omniscience.

Is it your view that Gods election is for no particular reason, or is it possible that he knows us before we were created and that is why he hated Esau

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guppy said:

Is it your view that Gods election is for no particular reason, or is it possible that he knows us before we were created and that is why he hated Esau

And Jacob? Did Jacob merit God's grace too?

 

2 hours ago, Guppy said:

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, all I have been doing is saying how can the unborn be guilty , I would think it is obvious I believe life begins at conception.

If life didn't begin at conception, why would I be arguing that the stillborn are innocent

Why would God hate Esau? We are commanded to love our enemy's, yet God hates Esau. Why would God hate Esau?

 

As to the rest of your points and questions, I'm ignoring you from here on out. You're far too inconsistent for me to deal with.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Guppy said:

 

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, all I have been doing is saying how can the unborn be guilty , I would think it is obvious I believe life begins at conception.

If life didn't begin at conception, why would I be arguing that the stillborn are innocent

Why would God hate Esau? We are commanded to love our enemy's, yet God hates Esau. Why would God hate Esau?

 

I would suggest its like Maggie said, God is Omniscience.

Is it your view that Gods election is for no particular reason, or is it possible that he knows us before we were created and that is why he hated Esau

 

 

Where is written that God "hated" esau?in Genesis Isaac loves esau and rebekkah loves jacob(just turned to genesis) and the only separation God told of was that from both children would be two nations one ruling the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Where is written that God "hated" esau?in Genesis Isaac loves esau and rebekkah loves jacob(just turned to genesis) and the only separation God told of was that from both children would be two nations one ruling the other.

Malachi 1 and Romans 9

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, William said:

Malachi 1 and Romans 9

Very well I shall see about those scriptures.

  • Best Answer 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Very well I shall see about those scriptures.

I can't tell you how frustrating this has been. Thank you for taking the time to address the questions and points from Scriptures.

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, William said:

Malachi 1 and Romans 9

 

10 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Very well I shall see about those scriptures.

So basically the all around understanding is that God gives mercy to who he wants no matter if good or evil has been done and that actually makes sense because esau and jacob were no exception to having adam's old sin yet between the two God lifted up jacob and loved him and hated esau and lowered him.

Edited by Joefizz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, William said:

I can't tell you how frustrating this has been. Thank you for taking the time to address the questions and points from Scriptures.

 

God bless,

William

Oh believe me I know the feeling I'm no "rookie" with this anymore,the biggest thing I have had to deal with is explaining "salvation" not by works and that none of us is perfect/sinless yet once in awhile on Christian sites I discuss on we get "trolls" even some of them believe the earth is flat and that they "must" tell everyone!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

 

So basically the all around understanding is that God gives mercy to who he wants no matter if good or evil has been done and that actually makes sense because esau and jacob were no exception to having adam's old sin yet between the two God lifted up jacob and loved him and hated esau and lowered him.

 

37 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Oh believe me I know the feeling I'm no "rookie" with this anymore,the biggest thing I have had to deal with is explaining "salvation" not by works and that none of us is perfect/sinless yet once in awhile on Christian sites I discuss on we get "trolls" even some of them believe the earth is flat and that they "must" tell everyone!

"Salvation not by works", I have read tons of commentary on Romans 9. Can't say how much I am amused to read from someone that writes out the life and works of Jacob vs Esau. That is, as if Jacob was worthy of God's affections being set upon him. Jesus in John 1:47 said this about Nathanael, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!” This was an obvious allusion and contrast to Jacob.

 

God bless,

William
 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, William said:

As to the rest of your points and questions, I'm ignoring you from here on out. You're far too inconsistent for me to deal with.

I apologize to you and anyone else I may have confused, I apologize that I have not articulated my position well enough to cause that confusion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2018 at 8:39 PM, Maggie said:

 

No.  I believe Faith is the work of God.  Anything else would be of my doing.  i.e. works.  

 

 

 

But since you brought this up.   I do believe we have the free will to decline the gift of Grace.  It is God Who does the calling, but not all are chosen.  Matthew 22:14  Therefore, I do not believe in "forced salvation. "  

I believe that we are elected, predestined, called, appointed... but why do so many Calvinists not like to consider God's omniscience when discussing it?  It's as if we're not allowed to consider that He is all knowing & as a result He predetermined whom He would choose.    Everyone is okay with saying God's omniscience can be trusted with aborted or stillborn babies or children who die, but it's almost forbidden when discussing it for those He's called.  I don't get it.  

If we look at Romans 9 and all the many other places that Scriptures says Called, Chosen, or by the will of God, predestination, appointed, or similar things.   

1Here are just a few verses that I discovered that might help you. Duet 7:7-8, Eph. 1:4, 2 Tim. 1:9, Matt. 11:27, 1Thess. 1:4, 11. *2 Thess. 2:13 Acts 1:2, 13:48. Romans 1:6, 8:29, 30 9:16, 18, 22-24, 11:7,8. Matt. 11:27, Col 3:12,14.

 

As for "Free Will" there are somethings we do have free will on, like what vehicle I drive (but I still pray for guidance) and things like this.  Now if you are where I was not too long ago I had a very difficult time in accepting that God made the choice as to whom went to heaven and who did not. I wrestled with the free will thing for a long time, I continued to ask William over and over questions about free will and everything he said was too different from my upbringing. So I started writing down verses that said that God made that choice. This took lost of time a prayer and reading Scripture before the final verse that totally changed my mind 2 Thess. 2:13.

 

Some people, will never ever even consider there is a God. Some people are wicked, and they would rather split you wide open as look at you, say nothing about mentioning God. There are nice seemingly very wise men like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins that refused to acknowledge there was even a possibility of a higher power. Their intelligence was worldly, and God created these men knowing their end in hell, He predestined them before the wold was even created. Instead of focusing on the damned focus on those God created to predetermined, chosen, called, to be His from the first. 

 

Look at the world of people who have evil intent, being raised believing murder, rape, and wickedness is the right way to believe. Many in gangs like MS 13 are examples of those so lost so deep in wickedness they are evil to the core of their soul. For many Christians its difficult to believe evil people exist. But look at Sodom and how God could find only just a very few to save. In many ways much of our worlds population is even worse than Sodom. There are some wicked people that use children for sex and then murder them. Parents have no interest in teaching their children anything about Jesus Christ or even acknowledging there is a God. In turn their children turn out to be pagan to the core. These type of children grow up thinking there is no need for marriage, and do what even feel good and right, drunkenness and immorality are all part of a good time.

 

For those who find out how truly special being chosen by God truly is, our love and gratitude is forever shown in our love for Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

I would suggest you pray and ask God to show you His will for this. Read Scripture and write down these verses. I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
Articles - News - Privacy Policy