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CDF47

War in Heaven

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Posted (edited)

The Bible describes a war in heaven and the casting out of Satan and his followers:

 

Isaiah 14: 12 - 17, states "12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"

 

Revelation 12: 7 - 9 states, "7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

 

I believe this war occurred before the creation of this universe.  Man was created and God allowed Satan to tempt man so they could see what he would do.  God of course, knew he would fall and He had a plan in place to redeem him.  

 

In this life, there is both a test and a lesson.  The test is to show there are no fence sitters, as there may have been in the war in heaven.  You have to choose one side or the other.  The lesson shows what happens when free will is allowed.  

 

Just a couple thoughts.  Do you have any thoughts about the war in heaven and how it plays into the overall Bible.

Edited by CDF47

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Briefly, a thought I explored some time ago, and asked for help with, is expressed in the question "How can heaven be the scene of a war?"

 

The answer is "There is a lower heaven which Satan has access to, as the Opposer, the Adversary, and the Accuser of the brethren." Job 1:9, Job 2:5, Zec 3:1-2, Luk 22:31, Rev 12:10,

 

In contrast to other theories, I consider the woman in Revelation 12 to be Israel and the man child she brought forth to be the Lord Our Saviour currently ascended to heaven and enthroned there while Israel experiences the wilderness until things come to a head. 

 

In a recent discussion I asked "Does Satan still have access to the lower heaven and is he still accusing the brethren?"

 

A consensus was "Yes", on both counts, which means, although cast out of the higher heaven and operating as the prince of this world, John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11, and the prince of the power of the air, Eph 2:2, and although his fall from rulership over individuals who are delivered in the name of Christ is as lightning from heaven, Luk 10:18, the war with Michael and His angels is yet to take place.

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2 hours ago, Placable37 said:

Briefly, a thought I explored some time ago, and asked for help with, is expressed in the question "How can heaven be the scene of a war?"

 

The answer is "There is a lower heaven which Satan has access to, as the Opposer, the Adversary, and the Accuser of the brethren." Job 1:9, Job 2:5, Zec 3:1-2, Luk 22:31, Rev 12:10,

 

In contrast to other theories, I consider the woman in Revelation 12 to be Israel and the man child she brought forth to be the Lord Our Saviour currently ascended to heaven and enthroned there while Israel experiences the wilderness until things come to a head. 

 

In a recent discussion I asked "Does Satan still have access to the lower heaven and is he still accusing the brethren?"

 

A consensus was "Yes", on both counts, which means, although cast out of the higher heaven and operating as the prince of this world, John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11, and the prince of the power of the air, Eph 2:2, and although his fall from rulership over individuals who are delivered in the name of Christ is as lightning from heaven, Luk 10:18, the war with Michael and His angels is yet to take place.

Interesting take.  Do you think he fell before the creation of man and the creation of this universe?  How do you feel the war in heaven fits in with the creation of man?

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Scripture tells us this about the Devil:

Joh 8:44
(44)  You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8
(8)  He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

We observe through various references, allusions, and inferences that Satan introduced sin into God's Presence and caused a rebellion, and that all who sinned then as angels, or later as exalted humans, are cast down: always cast down in God's good time; from heaven, from Eden, from rulerships etc.

2Pe 2:4
(4)  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6
(6)  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

Isaiah 14 is not literally about Lucifer who became Satan, but is a clever allusion to him as personified in the king of Babylon: 

Isa 14:4
(4)  That you shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

 

Ezekiel 28 is likewise not literally about Satan but is an allusion to him as personified in the prince/ king of Tyre 

Eze 28:2
(2)  Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus says the Lord GOD; Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet you are a man, and not God, though you set your heart as the heart of God:
Eze 28:12-19
(12)  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
(13)  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
(14)  Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(15)  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(16)  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
(17)  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(18)  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
(19)  All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

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50 minutes ago, Placable37 said:

Scripture tells us this about the Devil:

Joh 8:44
(44)  You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8
(8)  He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

We observe through various references, allusions, and inferences that Satan introduced sin into God's Presence and caused a rebellion, and that all who sinned then as angels, or later as exalted humans, are cast down: always cast down in God's good time; from heaven, from Eden, from rulerships etc.

2Pe 2:4
(4)  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6
(6)  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

Isaiah 14 is not literally about Lucifer who became Satan, but is a clever allusion to him as personified in the king of Babylon: 

Isa 14:4
(4)  That you shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

 

Ezekiel 28 is likewise not literally about Satan but is an allusion to him as personified in the prince/ king of Tyre 

Eze 28:2
(2)  Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus says the Lord GOD; Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet you are a man, and not God, though you set your heart as the heart of God:
Eze 28:12-19
(12)  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
(13)  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
(14)  Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(15)  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(16)  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
(17)  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(18)  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
(19)  All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

Very good breakdown.  Yes, it appears the rebellion began in heaven before the creation of this universe.  Satan and his followers were then cast out of heaven into darkness.  This universe was then created.  The Lord then allowed the devil unto this earth and into Eden to tempt Adam and Eve.  Man then fell and was now also a sinner.  So there are angels that are sinners and all men and women are sinners.  

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