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Bull of the Woods

Who are "We the people"?

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The constitution opens of course with "We the people". Lincoln spoke of a "government of the people, by the people, for the people" in the Gettysburg Address.

Who are the people? As the constitution was being drafted were they thinking the slaves were included in that phrase? How about free blacks? How about Native Americans?

Were Jews included?

Lincoln made a big shift on a concept of the Declaration of Independence when he stressed that the founders included people of African ancestry in the phrase "all men are created equal", even though the constitution did not allow all to be treated as equals. 

My real question is for today. Who is included in the "We the people"?

Does it include legal immigrants? Does it include Muslims born here in the US?

Atheists?

If anyone cares to give their thoughts maybe it's easier to say who isn't included in "We the people".

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You need to specify a point in time as the phrase 'we the people' has evolved as our society has evolved.  Also does the phrase confer/infer specific rights and privileges in order to be included?  It is a complicated question and the answer will change depending as the parameters change.

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1 hour ago, Civilwarbuff said:

You need to specify a point in time as the phrase 'we the people' has evolved as our society has evolved.  Also does the phrase confer/infer specific rights and privileges in order to be included?  It is a complicated question and the answer will change depending as the parameters change.

"My real question is for today. Who is included in the "We the people"?

Does it include legal immigrants? Does it include Muslims born here in the US?

Atheists?

 If anyone cares to give their thoughts maybe it's easier to say who isn't included in "We the people"."

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Citizens (this would also encompass unborn babies).

 I should also add that those who don't believe that the Creator is the foundation of our rights (see the Declaration of Independence) I consider less than full citizens.

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9 minutes ago, Faber said:

Citizens (this would also encompass unborn babies).

 I should also add that those who don't believe that the Creator is the foundation of our rights (see the Declaration of Independence) I consider less than full citizens.

Today, citizens seems reasonable.

I don't think it right  to have a litmus test of right thinking correctly about God.

And when God gives gifts of rights,  doesn't he do so on his own without our thinking correctly or, in the case of many people, their not considering the source of their rights in any way whatsoever.

 

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If a person does not believe our rights come from God then this leads to terrifying alternatives which will bring the country down.

 Belief in the Creator is a "self-evident" truth. If one were to deny that then anything goes.

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2 hours ago, Faber said:

If a person does not believe our rights come from God then this leads to terrifying alternatives which will bring the country down.

 Belief in the Creator is a "self-evident" truth. If one were to deny that then anything goes.

Well our faith itself is a gift. How would you determine who are not believers? What would be done with them?

Why is it necessary in a republic that everyone understands what the ultimate source of their rights and the governmental authority comes from?

 

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We the People of the United States, in Order establish  to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The above people who wish to establish justice insure domestic tranquility etc 

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1 hour ago, Bull of the Woods said:

Well our faith itself is a gift. How would you determine who are not believers? What would be done with them?

Why is it necessary in a republic that everyone understands what the ultimate source of their rights and the governmental authority comes from?

 

1. Those who do not believe that our rights come from the Creator.

2. They should not be in a position of leadership in this country.

3. Because if rights come from man then man can take away these rights. This is why when they come from the Creator they are "inalienable" - they can not be taken away. That our rights come from the Creator is what the Declaration of Independence affirms is a "self-evident" truth.

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7 hours ago, Faber said:

1. Those who do not believe that our rights come from the Creator.

2. They should not be in a position of leadership in this country.

3. Because if rights come from man then man can take away these rights. This is why when they come from the Creator they are "inalienable" - they can not be taken away. That our rights come from the Creator is what the Declaration of Independence affirms is a "self-evident" truth.

I can understand the idea that someone who doesn't understand or rejects that these inalienable rights come from the creator would be dangerously flawed and should not be voted for.

 

I am not sure how inalienable rights are inalienable if they can be taken away. Government can prevent them from being exercised but can't actually take them away.

 

Individuals, whether they believe in the creator or not, and even if they live in another country, even North Korea, have those same inalienable rights. It's just that the government they are living under doesn't accept God's authority or their responsibility to not interefere.

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On 5/15/2018 at 1:11 PM, Bull of the Woods said:

"My real question is for today. Who is included in the "We the people"?

Does it include legal immigrants? Does it include Muslims born here in the US?

Atheists?

 If anyone cares to give their thoughts maybe it's easier to say who isn't included in "We the people"."

Yes, yes, and yes.

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