Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christforums

.... an orthodox (true and correct when contrasted with Liberal theology) Protestant forum whose members espouse the Apostolic doctrines in the Biblical theologies set forth by Augustine, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin and John Knox etc. We do not "argue" with nor do we solicit the membership of people who espouse secular or cultic ideologies. We believe that our conversations are to be faith building and posts that advance heretical or apostate thinking will be immediately deleted and the poster permanently banned from the forum. This is a Christian Protestant community for people to explore the traditional theologies of Classical Protestantism.

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
CaptainFarkus

How can the trinity be one God?

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, CaptainFarkus said:

A person is an individual. A being is the nature or essence of a person. One God cannot exist as three divine persons.

That isn't the case, a tree can is a being, but it isn't a person (at least philosophically speaking) - we are dealing with theology here so normal everyday definitions are not always helpful - you have to allow us to define the terms we are using. In Regards to the trinity getting the language exactly right perplexed the church of Jesus Christ for a long time - finally it was settled on these terms that we use today. In English they are 'essence/ being' and 'person' and we make a distinction between the two (as philosophy often does) and we state:

 

1) God is one essence

2) There are three distinct (but not separate) persons who are partake of that one essence

 

Now, personally I am loath to go beyond that into explaining the difference between 'essence' and 'person' - for this God we are talking about and to be frank if I could figure him out he wouldn't be greater then me would he. 

 

However, my friend, if you cannot accept that we mean different things when we say: "God is one" and "there are three are who are God" then we won't get anywhere (I'm not asking you to agree with me on this point I am asking you accept that this is the language I am using and understand that I am making a distinction - can you do that? 

 

Now, moving on. 

 

How many persons does the scripture identify as God? 

 

(1) The scripture identifies the Father as God - 1 Thess  1:1

(2) The scriptures identify Jesus as God - John 20:28

(3) The scriptures identify the Spirit as God - Acts 5:3-4

 

And yet clearly these three persons are distinct - at the baptism of Jesus we read of the following occurrences:  When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Mat 3:16-17 NKJ)

 

So, we have three divine persons each taking on specific functions at the baptism of Jesus:

 

(a) The Son is being baptized

(b) The Father is speaking from heaven

(c) The Spirit is alighting on Jesus

 

Three persons - each of whom is God - but not three Gods! Indeed Jesus declare "I and my father are one" (John 10:30) - we have just seen that he and the father are distinct persons - yet here Jesus says they are one! He can't mean they are the same person (that makes a nonsense out the Bible) but he can mean they are one essence/ being. 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For simple people like me ... God is:

     1 WHAT  &  3 WHOs

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

In John 20:28 Is Thomas acknowledging Christ as Lord and God or Christ as his Lord (My Lord) and the Father (who was also in Christ) as his God? When saying / or acknowledging both there?

 

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

Only given Jesus also said,

 

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

Even as it also says,

 

2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

And again (keeping with "the words")

 

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

 

But also here, the oneness between them it says, 

 

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

But Jesus also says,

 

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,

that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

So he prayed his disciples would have the same oneness they had between them (which pertained to His Father being in him)

 

Doesnt change anything but rather acknowledges all of the above just understood differently, even the order of things before and after Thomas declaration in John 20:28  where it appears to show more of what is there between Psalm 45:6, John 20:17,  Psalm 45: 7 as acknowledged in Hebrews 1:8 (and where this was at the right hand of the Father) having recieved the promise (the gift of God) to breath upon them, and after that manner could be acknowledged  by Thomas there in John 20:28

 

Just reasoning these and a few others from the scriptures

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fireproof
Wrong verses added

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/11/2018 at 4:33 AM, reformed baptist said:

1) God is one essence

2) There are three distinct (but not separate) persons who are partake of that one essence

 

Now, personally I am loath to go beyond that into explaining the difference between 'essence' and 'person' - for this God we are talking about and to be frank if I could figure him out he wouldn't be greater then me would he. 

Amen reformed baptist, I like you word essence. I think persons was a bad choice to define something infinite. I agree we can't fully comprehend an infinite God. I like to think the word "Elohim" which is not singular, is like saying the Smiths. You know like describing the family. The following is a reference to Jesus answering prayer:

 

John 14:13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

 

I personally have no problem praying/talking to Jesus but, like most, I formally pray to the Father.

 

6280.gif

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/10/2018 at 10:46 AM, CaptainFarkus said:

I was asking a question. I'm asking how the trinity can be one God.

Hi, and welcome CaptainFarkus. I'll just leave the following scripture hoping to give you some perspective as to God's unity. 

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus
 

If this can be true in millions of believers, surely there can be oneness in God. I do not know your background in doctrine, but Jesus being equal with God made Himself of no reputation to be born as man, suffer the cross for us. He is als said to be Emanuel. Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 

 

What does Jesus refer to Himself? If you're familiar with the name Jehovah, it is the Jewish national name of God, and Jesus says this in Isa 43:11  I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour.  

 

I'll leave off here for the moment waiting for any questions, and or response. I hope it gives you a bit of insight into the problem many find in understanding the Oneness of God, and many times it just takes more familiarization with the different manner our Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are referred to as being. E.g., The Holy Spirit is also said to be the God of Peace, and there is scripture referring to Annais lying to God in Act 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 
Act 5:4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God

 

Once you obtain the precept by precept of God's word, faith must be applied. I hope this helps, May God bless it to your need in Jesus' name..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LORD (Jehovah) made Jesus (the Son of God) both Lord and Christ it shows

 

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord,

Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Mark 12:36-37)

 

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,

whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 4:11 AM, Fireproof said:

In John 20:28 Is Thomas acknowledging Christ as Lord and God or Christ as his Lord (My Lord) and the Father (who was also in Christ) as his God? When saying / or acknowledging both there?

 

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

Only given Jesus also said,

 

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

Even as it also says,

 

2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

And again (keeping with "the words")

 

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

 

But also here, the oneness between them it says, 

 

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

But Jesus also says,

 

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,

that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

So he prayed his disciples would have the same oneness they had between them (which pertained to His Father being in him)

 

Doesnt change anything but rather acknowledges all of the above just understood differently, even the order of things before and after Thomas declaration in John 20:28  where it appears to show more of what is there between Psalm 45:6, John 20:17Psalm 45: 7 as acknowledged in Hebrews 1:8 (and where this was at the right hand of the Father) having recieved the promise (the gift of God) to breath upon them, and after that manner could be acknowledged  by Thomas there in John 20:28

 

Just reasoning these and a few others from the scriptures

 

 

 

 

In answer to your first question: Thomas was acknowledging Christ as His Lord and as His God.

https://www.christforums.org/forum/cult-groups-movements/heresy-hill/arianism/25971-the-use-of-my-god-in-john-20-28

 

 God dwells in all believers but we are never to refer to other believers as (1) "My God," and (2) we are never to worship other believers, but we are to worship Christ because He is God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fireproof said:

The LORD (Jehovah) made Jesus (the Son of God) both Lord and Christ it shows

 

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord,

Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Mark 12:36-37)

 

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,

whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

 

 

 

Christ was made "Lord," means the resurrection gave full proof of what He has always been even before this time (Luke 2:11). In the like manner the resurrection "declared" that He was the Son of God even though He was the Son of God before this time as well (John 1:49). Notice that He was never referred to as "Lord Jesus" until after His resurrection (Luke 24:3).

New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): Related to this use of cheir is the notion of the right hand, dexia (cheir). This expresses a person's power and authority. To sit at the right hand (en dexia) signifies the possession of equal power and dignity (2:146, Hand, C. Blendinger).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): By His exaltation to the place of honour alongside God, Jesus of Nazareth has become the Christ and Kyrios of the world. The Messianic Psalm is thus fulfilled; the Messiah has entered His glory; the Messianic age has dawned. Jesus in the place of honour at the right hand of God has a share in the glory and power and deity of God which He exercises by sending the Holy Spirit (2:39-40, dexios, Grundmann).

 

 Do you believe the Lord Jesus is God?

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Faber said:

Christ was made "Lord," means the resurrection gave full proof of what He has always been even before this time (Luke 2:11). In the like manner the resurrection "declared" that He was the Son of God even though He was the Son of God before this time as well (John 1:49). Notice that He was never referred to as "Lord Jesus" until after His resurrection (Luke 24:3).

New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): Related to this use of cheir is the notion of the right hand, dexia (cheir). This expresses a person's power and authority. To sit at the right hand (en dexia) signifies the possession of equal power and dignity (2:146, Hand, C. Blendinger).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): By His exaltation to the place of honour alongside God, Jesus of Nazareth has become the Christ and Kyrios of the world. The Messianic Psalm is thus fulfilled; the Messiah has entered His glory; the Messianic age has dawned. Jesus in the place of honour at the right hand of God has a share in the glory and power and deity of God which He exercises by sending the Holy Spirit (2:39-40, dexios, Grundmann).

 

 Do you believe the Lord Jesus is God?

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I would probably go with "the Son of man" in that comparison (as he acknowledges himself to be)  in  Mark 9:9 and Luke 18:31 (for example)  but who is declared "the Son of God" (as you agree) by the resurrection from the dead (as is shown us in Romans 1:4). Since he refers to himself as the Son of man and the Son of God. As he had said, it must go as it was written concerning the Son of man  (who is Jesus Christ our Lord) made of the seed of David (and in the flesh suffered, died, was buried) and was raised up again. and declared the Son of God. So I think we agree here. Although calling him master and Lord and acknowledging Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God is shown to us in the scriptures before that time maybe not the "Lord Jesus" but they were calling Jesus Lord before the LORD said anything to our Lord Jesus at his ascension is how I would reason with that. 

 

I believe Jesus is "the Son of" God. and that when he ascended he ascended to his God and our God  as is shown in John 20:17 and when he did so that even God the Father acknowledges the Son by calling him God as is also shown in Psalm 45:6-7  which is again comfirmed  in Heb 1:8 where he was also made Lord and a priest forever. I do believe that for us there is one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 8:6

 

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all acknowledged as God in scripture

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Faber said:

In answer to your first question: Thomas was acknowledging Christ as His Lord and as His God.

https://www.christforums.org/forum/cult-groups-movements/heresy-hill/arianism/25971-the-use-of-my-god-in-john-20-28

 

 God dwells in all believers but we are never to refer to other believers as (1) "My God," and (2) we are never to worship other believers, but we are to worship Christ because He is God.

I dont read ism links, but I also dont think of Jesus Christ as a believer but our Lord so I dont know how that applies, after the manner of timing of ascending and Thomas not being there when the others were and Christ having received the Spirit to breathe upon them, I would think that was not of men but of God.

 

Christ was not alone, 

 

John 8:29 He who sent me with  me

 

God was in Christ

 

2 Corinthians 5: 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

He asked them if they believed this

 

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? 

 

 

Edited by Fireproof
Just added more verses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Fireproof said:

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all acknowledged as God in scripture

Oaky. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
Articles - News - Registration Terms