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Socialized Medicine: As UK Docs Murder Alfie, Hospitals Are Overrun with Rats

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Alfie Evans’ parents seems to have run out of legal options. Britain’s National Health Service, its courts, and even its pundits have decided that they know what’s best for the child and that’s for him to die, no matter what his parents wishes or the legal options may be. Anyone who disagrees is simply advancing…

 

The post Socialized Medicine: As UK Docs Murder Alfie, Hospitals Are Overrun with Rats appeared first on Conservative Tribune.

 

 

 

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I really think this inflammatory feed should be removed :RpS_thumbdn:

 

UK doctors are not 'murdering' that poor little boy and we should be promoting such lies

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I really think this inflammatory feed should be removed :RpS_thumbdn:

 

UK doctors are not 'murdering' that poor little boy and we should be promoting such lies

 

Perhaps not, but the News Feeder ( I believe) is something that is part of the forum. I wouldn't remove it without the forum owner/ administrator's go ahead.

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One more horrific tragic example of Socialism monster control over peoples lives. Asking a system for permission to save the life of one's son elsewhere. Being refused! Because going elsewhere makes the monster system look incompetent to those who read of it. Therefore no! You cannot take your baby boy elsewhere for possible life saving treatment that cannot be afforded in this country's hospital. Ergo, baby dies. But at least he died in the control of the homeland monster.

If the baby was ambulatory were they my child, I would have picked them up and taken them out of that hospital and to the one that would give their life a chance. God help anyone who tried to stop me.

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Posted (edited)

This little boy had now died - he will never know that he has been a pawn in a bigger battle.

 

Part of the problem I have with this type of irresponsible reporting is that people are just so gullible and likley to jump on any bandwagon without thinking things through - we are so wired today to think with our hearts - not our heads - we are like children!

 

Bear in mind that the medical team are not allowed to speak publicly in defense of their decision - all you are getting is the parent's 'side' of the story and the parents have been badly advised by a legal team with all kinds of agendas - written by people who have no understanding of medical ethics and the british legal system (seemingly) as it relates to care of Children.

 

Medical ethics is a very complicated subject, not just legally, but socially - I have a tonne of respect for the doctors who had made a very tough decision in the full knowledge of the flak they would take - let me ask you all a question - should a doctor perform a potentially dangerous and painful procedure that isn't going to improve the medical condition of the patient (is that morally right)?

 

The child did not have 'an undiagnosed' problem - he had a degenerative condition that does not have medical a label (not that rare an occurrence) - there was a definite prognosis - the brain was going to continue to deteriorate and there was no cure.

 

Without artificial help he would quickly die, and with artificial help he would slowly die - the procedures needed to slow down that death were becoming increasingly invasive and painful for the child and were not providing the child with any quality of life. So, what is a doctor to do - keep hurting a little baby for no perceivable benefit (a form of child abuse) or remove treatment and allow nature to take it's course?

 

All those people who are crying out about parental rights need to understand that what you are demanding is the right of a parent to insist that others (doctors and nurses) abuse a child - this is a case where the broitish courts have ruled in favour of the child (not the doctors) against the parents.

 

This sort of inflammatory, uninformed reporting is grossly negligent in my opinion

Edited by reformed baptist
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I really think this inflammatory feed should be removed :RpS_thumbdn:

 

UK doctors are not 'murdering' that poor little boy and we should be promoting such lies

 

Perhaps not, but the News Feeder ( I believe) is something that is part of the forum. I wouldn't remove it without the forum owner/ administrator's go ahead.

I'm not asking for the News Feeder to be turned off - where on earth do you get that idea from?

 

I am asking for 'oversight' off it - to be honest I usually ignore it - but these reports are terrible - written by people who do not care about the truth or accurate reporting (or even the child) - and if we love truth we shouldn't be promoting this type of tripe - I don't want to promote the fascist agenda anymore then i want to promote the socialist one!

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I really think this inflammatory feed should be removed :RpS_thumbdn:

 

UK doctors are not 'murdering' that poor little boy and we should be promoting such lies

 

Perhaps not, but the News Feeder ( I believe) is something that is part of the forum. I wouldn't remove it without the forum owner/ administrator's go ahead.

A misunderstanding, I think. I was talking about deleting this particular topic, not getting rid of News Feeder entirely. This subject is rather near and dear to people on both sides of the debate and with Mr. Evans' tragic death, the conversation is only going to get worse. Oversight, certainly. Perhaps the admins could appoint somebody to review certain articles that others might find objectionable and filter out those stories that would cause unnecessary conflict. I'd suggest the same thing with the Babylon Bee articles.

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I really think this inflammatory feed should be removed :RpS_thumbdn:

 

UK doctors are not 'murdering' that poor little boy and we should be promoting such lies

 

Perhaps not, but the News Feeder ( I believe) is something that is part of the forum. I wouldn't remove it without the forum owner/ administrator's go ahead.

That would be good - but to be clear the issue for me is not is this 'offensive' - I am strong proponent of freedom of speech - it is the dishonesty of the material that alarms me, and the fact this poor kid is being used.

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I see the simple 'unpluging ' of the child,, the same as my DNR request for myself/husband. The part of this I see as child abuse is not allowing the child to be taken else where.

 

I wish this country was as concerned about our children dying via abortion 58 million Alifes.

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The part of this I see as child abuse is not allowing the child to be taken else where.

 

Are you talking about the hospital in Italy?

 

Again it was to ask these doctors to perform more invasive (and painful) procedures to prepare a child to travel to a place where doctors are going to do even more invasive procedures that will not have any benefit for the child - not to mention the stress of travelling. Every time a doctor has to decide on a procedure it is a case of weighing up the benefit as opposed to the risk and harm the procedure involves - what was the benefit to the child of preparing min to travel here?

 

I don't know these doctors personally - but all the doctors I do know would have done all they could for this boy if there was any hope of improving his condition - I have no reason to think these doctors are cut from the same cloth

 

I wish this country was as concerned about our children dying via abortion 58 million Alifes.

 

That I quite agree with :RpS_thumbup:

 

 

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I suspect we got only Part of the situation. And in England - there are the different policies. We want Every country to operate the same way We do. It just doesn't happen. And, even in This country -- the same thing probably happens frequently. We simply don't hear about it.

 

And, of course, we want the best for the baby and his parents.

 

Some years ago, my grandson - an older child- was involved in a horrible accident at home. The medics were able to get his heart going again. He was put on medications that kept his heart beating, but there was a great deal of brain damage. Now, he Could have been left on those medications indefinitely. So - the next day - we helped our daughter and son-in-law make a very hard decision. Ben was a climber -- he loved nature -- he would not want to be attached to a machine indefinitely. So he was unplugged -- shortly he was gone.

 

Situations like this Should be left to the parents and Dr. and not be published for everyone to comment about.

 

The hospital is being characterized as the 'big bad wolf' -- in That country they were doing what That country Does. The Pope even got involved -- That was not necessary.

 

The baby was diagnosed with the degenerative condition -- unless there was a question of the diagnosis. Sometimes we simply have to accept the bad things that happen. Sometimes babies are born with things that just aren't curable. We Can have the assurance that they will be in heaven with God.

 

And I'd agree with the last comment -- I wish this country was as concerned about our children dying via abortion.

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I suspect we got only Part of the situation. And in England - there are the different policies.

 

Correct on both counts I suspect - as I said above, the doctors are legally bound not to comment in public :RpS_thumbup:

 

Some years ago, my grandson - an older child- was involved in a horrible accident at home.

 

I am so sorry to hear that - that must have been an incredibly tough time you for and your family - i don't know I would cope with something like that.

 

 

 

 

 

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I suspect we got only Part of the situation. And in England - there are the different policies.

 

Correct on both counts I suspect - as I said above, the doctors are legally bound not to comment in public :RpS_thumbup:

 

Some years ago, my grandson - an older child- was involved in a horrible accident at home.

 

I am so sorry to hear that - that must have been an incredibly tough time you for and your family - i don't know I would cope with something like that.

 

 

 

 

They didn't cope with it well at all. He's a Former son-in-law -- he was too concerned that having a son die due to the fainting/choking game being allowed -- he refused family counseling and filed for divorce instead. A pretty bad family split. No one would admit to the police the cause Of the 'accident' Ben Did have some minor problems -- police ruled it suicide rather than even accidental death. The RCC part of the family didn't like that -- the suicide part.

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I suspect we got only Part of the situation. And in England - there are the different policies.

 

Correct on both counts I suspect - as I said above, the doctors are legally bound not to comment in public :RpS_thumbup:

 

Some years ago, my grandson - an older child- was involved in a horrible accident at home.

 

I am so sorry to hear that - that must have been an incredibly tough time you for and your family - i don't know I would cope with something like that.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing that - I am so sorry your family had to endure such a tragedy - The Lord is our strenght

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The Alfie situation has been on Fox News just recently -- the infant passed away either yesterday or today.

 

Socialized medicine is Not the way to go, but the infant would have died no matter due to his illness. We need to be praying for the family.

 

And there are no easy answers to health care.

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I see the simple 'unpluging ' of the child,, the same as my DNR request for myself/husband. The part of this I see as child abuse is not allowing the child to be taken else where.

 

I wish this country was as concerned about our children dying via abortion 58 million Alifes.

 

This thread isn't about abortion. Nor does it have any similarities to abortion. There are no 58 million Alfies.

http://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c7126fd95f5f9ca9709508b448ebe86da288d96f/0_130_1875_1125/master/1875.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=1a72c35de1d879d127e93576bdfde5a8

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This thread isn't about abortion. Nor does it have any similarities to abortion. There are no 58 million Alfies.

http://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c7126fd95f5f9ca9709508b448ebe86da288d96f/0_130_1875_1125/master/1875.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=1a72c35de1d879d127e93576bdfde5a8

 

We just read/view things differently. This thread reads to me to be about a parents choice. About the medical profession. About the death of a child.

 

 

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We just read/view things differently. This thread reads to me to be about a parents choice. About the medical profession. About the death of a child.

 

 

A born child. Not a fetus in the womb. There is not one iota of similarity between precious little Alfie's plight and abortion. Actually, to conflate abortion with this story about this poor child and his family is disrespectful derailing through the non sequitur that is abortion.

You do know the difference between a born child and a fetus in utero, or child in utero, right?

 

 

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A born child. Not a fetus in the womb. There is not one iota of similarity between precious little Alfie's plight and abortion. Actually, to conflate abortion with this story about this poor child and his family is disrespectful derailing through the non sequitur that is abortion.

You do know the difference between a born child and a fetus in utero, or child in utero, right?

 

 

Yes, the age of the child is the difference . Now we are really off topic .

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The article mentioned the conditions of the hospital -- that it had rodents in it. That situation would not have affected the baby's illness. It's Also true that a hospital should be clean.

 

The fact, is , though, that when a building, hospital, is full of people -- there will probably, eventually be health problems. Which is one reason the medical profession has patients out as quickly as possible. People usually heal better at home.

 

Remembering way back with Florence Nightengale -- people going to hospitals back then were the last resort. Partly because of lack of simple hygiene -- washing hands between patients. The Dr's back then practically ostricized her. The highly intelligent Dr's of that day didn't wash their hands between patients. No face masks or gloves or anything that modern medicine automatically does these days.

 

 

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On 4/29/2018 at 3:34 AM, Sue D. said:

The article mentioned the conditions of the hospital -- that it had rodents in it. That situation would not have affected the baby's illness. It's Also true that a hospital should be clean.

 

Actually the article didn't say that - it spoke about cases of hospitals having rodents in them (and other pests) - similar to the swipe at GPs for not allowing patients who are too far away to register at their practices - it was a pointless smear that says more about the reporter and the publication then it does about the actual situation. Just to address the point about GPs refusing patients registration because of distance - in this country general practitioners are obliged to make house calls  if a patent is unable to get to the practice - if a patient lives an hours drive away you're talking about two and half hours to visit one patient, a practice round the corner could do it in 30 mins. In a normal surgery a doctor will see around 15 patients in 3 hours - and surgeries are always full - it is good practice for doctors to refuse registration for patients a long distance away. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 12:00 AM, Becky said:

This thread reads to me to be about a parents choice. About the medical profession. About the death of a child.

 

That is what alarms me about the way the people are reading and reacting to this - this is a not a situation of parents against the medical profession (or the state) - it was a case about what is best for a little child - making it anything else is to buy into political agendas and completely miss the point. 

 

It is a terribly emotive subject - I do not know how I would react if I found myself in similar situation with one of my Children - but just ask yourself an honest question here - who was thinking about what is best for the child in this case? 

 

1) The medical team who wanted to stop invasive and traumatic treatments that were not providing any tangible benefits for the child but were causing him discomfort and who knew that if they withdrew treatment he would die peacefully and naturally

2) The parents who were demanding that these doctors continue this traumatic treatment of their child (and yes as a parent I fully understand their desire to see their child live longer)

3) The 'legal team' that have made all kinds of strange demands like trying the doctors for murder

4) The Pope who wanted this poor child transferred to a hospital with worse facilities

5) the media who have turned the whole situation in to a complete circus

 

As I say I do not know what would happen if I found myself in a similar situation - my heart does out to Sue D in regards that sad time in her families life - and my heart goes out to the parents of Alfie - no parent should outlive their child! But, and this is important, I do know that if someone was hurting one of my children, I would do all that I could to help them and I would welcome the intervention of the state to protect my child and act in my child best interests (especially if, for some reason, my ability to act was impaired) - and that is the case here - the parents ability to act in the best interest of their child were emotionally impaired (not surprisingly - mine would have been too) - who must take responsibility to act in the best interest of the child in such a case? 

 

Today, all over the world, doctors will be being asked to make life or death decisions for many people and it is their job to put the patient first! Consider, for example, a heart attack - when a person goes into cardiac arrest they can often be resuscitated - however that isn't a pleasant experience (it isn't like on TV) - how many relatives know this to be the case so whenever there is a cardiac arrest they want the doctors to try and bring their loved one back. But what about if that cardiac arrest is the result of multi organ failure and if the doctors bring that person back through the traumatic process of resuscitation they will just arrest again, and again, and again - the medical team need to act in the best interest of the patient (not the relatives) - that is the type of action doctors all over the world will be called upon to make - the only difference here is that this was a child and the media turned it into a circus. 

 

I simply want to say  thank you to every doctor who is going to try and do their best for me and act in my best interests and I hope (and pray) that the laws of this land will continue to give them that ability. If anything should happen to my child I really hope there is someone who loves me enough to respond like Sue D did in her family situation, and I hope I will listen to them!    

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There is an emotional need to keep another person alive as long as possible -- there's Always that chance that God will perform a miracle - at the last minute- like in the New Testament times.  Jesus Christ brought Jairus's daughter back to life.  We in this country want everything to happen like it does Here. 

 

We have Shriner's Hospital and Dell Children's Hospital and other hospitals who work miracles with baby's / small children and older kids.  We'd like Every child  to have positive improvements -- but we don't really know how many of Those children live very long lives.

 

And, I've also heard that when the paddles are used to try bringing a patient back -- that lots of times it's more for 'show' for the sake of parents or whomever -- than that it really works -- and that it can have painful after affects for the patient. 

 

And I appreciate rb's comment regarding my own family's experiences. 

 

If more people could have the assurance of knowing they'd be seeing their loved ones in the future -- in heaven -- that would help them say a temporary 'good bye' in the here and now.  My two daughters miscarried three baby's very early in their pregnancies.  The one daughter miscarried two boys (little boys can't survive with IP) and the other daughter, we don't really know.  Either a boy or a girl is waiting in heaven along with Ben.  

 

We love our baby's as long as we have them.  They are always a part of us. 

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