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Zuno_Yazh

Innocence By Christ

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According to the Bible, everyone shares Adam's guilt in the matter of the forbidden fruit.

 

†. Rom 5:12 . . Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

 

†. Rom 5:19 . .Through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners.

 

However: though Adam's disobedience made everyone sinners; it didn't make everyone sinful: that's something else altogether. I'm not talking about the so-called "fallen nature" here; I'm just talking about joint principals in Adam's disobedience.

 

This seems very unfair; I know, and I certainly do not dispute it. But we have to accept the divine legality of this because "joint principle" is a crucial factor in Christianity.

 

No doubt Adam went on from the forbidden fruit incident to commit more and more acts of disobedience; but we are not concerned with those for now because none of them count in this matter. The only act of his that counts is the fruit thing.

 

The remainder of the fifth chapter of Romans go on to explain that Jesus' one act of obedience in the matter of his crucifixion is, for us, the only obedience of his that matters because just as God reckons that Adam's one act of disobedience accounts everybody disobedient; so He reckons that Jesus' one act of obedience can account anyone and everyone compliant.

 

Simply put, just as Adam's one act of disobedience made everybody guilty, in a similar manner, Jesus' one act of obedience can make everybody innocent; i.e. Adam's act made everybody unrighteous, Jesus' act can make anyone and everyone righteous.

 

People made innocent via Jesus one act of obedience go right on sinning as before, that's unchanged (1John 1:8) however, their sins don't go in the books as an indictment against them.

 

†. 2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them

 

The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory; i.e. an indictment.

 

Bottom line: Adam's one disobedient act precludes the possibility of anybody getting past the wrath of God on their own merits. Along the same line, Jesus' one obedient act makes it very possible for everybody to get past the wrath of God on Christ's own merits.

 

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You need no other argument, you need no other plea.

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Bottom line: Adam's one disobedient act precludes the possibility of anybody getting past the wrath of God on their own merits. Along the same line, Jesus' one obedient act makes it very possible for everybody to get past the wrath of God on Christ's own merits.

 

Jesus' sacrifice only provides the possibility of salvation?

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Posted (edited)
Jesus' sacrifice only provides the possibility of salvation?

 

 

The possibility of innocence.

 

For example: I'm pretty sure that a really good friend of mine is in hell. I met him when we were just kids in the second grade; and became friends for life. Were there something I could do to get him out of hell I'd do it even if he fully deserves to be there. But though I might rescue my friend, it is not within my power to exonerate him. In effect, any effort to rescue my friend would be considered a jailbreak and he'd become a fugitive from justice.

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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The possibility of innocence.

 

But 'innocence' isn't mentioned in Rom 5! In fact the whole point of Rom 5:11-21 is that the guilty are justified - not made innocent, but declared 'righteous.' Merely being 'innocent' is not enough to get anyone into heaven good requires obedience not innocence.

 

Nor is it presented a possibility - rather it is presented as certainty - notices that it 'results in' not it creates the possibility is what Paul actually says: Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life - just as the condemnation is certain for those in Adam, the justification is certain for those in Christ.

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in Christ.

 

 

†. 1Cor 15:22 . . As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

I got in Adam by birth; i.e. my mother was biologically related to him.

 

People get in Christ by birth too. The Spirit, as per John 3:3-8, is-- in a manner of speaking -- biologically related to Christ.

 

If you can understand biological relationships, then you can understand supernatural relationships; viz: in Adam people are born of man, in Christ people are born of God.

 

†. John 1:12-13 . .To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

Note that the perquisite to being born of God is belief; i.e. unbelievers are not in Christ; they are quite outside; i.e. unbelievers are just as unrelated to Christ as a flying squirrel is unrelated to a saguaro cactus.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

†. 1Cor 15:22 . . As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

I got in Adam by birth; i.e. my mother was biologically related to him.

 

People get in Christ by birth too. The Spirit, as per John 3:3-8, is-- in a manner of speaking -- biologically related to Christ.

 

If you can understand biological relationships, then you can understand supernatural relationships; viz: in Adam people are born of man, in Christ people are born of God.

 

†. John 1:12-13 . .To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

Note that the perquisite to being born of God is belief; i.e. unbelievers are not in Christ; they are quite outside; i.e. unbelievers are just as unrelated to Christ as a flying squirrel is unrelated to a saguaro cactus.

 

You haven't responded to the points being made - this is getting to be a habit I think :RpS_sad:

 

1) Where is 'innocence' in Rom 5?

 

2) Why is being guilty certain, but being innocent only possibility?

 

Edited by reformed baptist

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†. John 1:12-13 . .To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

Note that the perquisite to being born of God is belief; i.e. unbelievers are not in Christ; they are quite outside; i.e. unbelievers are just as unrelated to Christ as a flying squirrel is unrelated to a saguaro cactus.

  • John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

This is a descriptive and manifestative character of the sons of God. The Father elects, and by virtue of election and the covenant of grace, the Elect are the children of God before faith. The Elect are a gift to Jesus Christ who came into the world to gather them together, and save them. Yet no man can comfort in his adoption until they believe in it. John 1:12-13 The verses are simply emphasizing that the Jews have been rejected and strangers have been adopted, those that believe have been engrafted by faith into Christ. They are adopted and have the right to be called sons of God.

 

Belief is not the prerequisite to regeneration. Regeneration precedes faith.

 

Ephesians 2:5 states the timing. When you were dead you were made alive by God. You did nothing, you couldn't because you were spiritually dead in sin and trespasses. Dead men do nothing. You did not choose to be physically born nor did you choose to be spiritually born. God made you alive, He not only enabled faith but provided everything you need to believe in.

  • Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved5

Again, you were dead and you were alive by God. You did nothing.

  • Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

You have been saved by Grace, and what of faith? This is not your own doing. Even faith can be a work if it's in or of oneself. It is the work of Christ that we are saved by, the object of our faith and not by anything we had done. Belief in or of ourselves is powerless and does nothing without the object of faith - Jesus Christ.

 

Soli Deo Gloria! (Glory to God alone)

 

God bless,

William

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