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kathydixon

What is passover all about?

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Before commenting I must add that this is a trick question and anyone under the age of 21 should not visit

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Hi @kathydixon, did you leave something out? I'm afraid I'm not following you.

 

No I didn't leave something out. I personally know the biblical events of Passover and found it disturbing to say the least. And I was going to use this forum to express my views.

I'm grateful that no one responded and I responded in kind. Somethings are best left to the dead.

 

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Hi @kathydixon, did you leave something out? I'm afraid I'm not following you.

 

No I didn't leave something out. I personally know the biblical events of Passover and found it disturbing to say the least. And I was going to use this forum to express my views.

I'm grateful that no one responded and I responded in kind. Somethings are best left to the dead.

Could you share what it is that you find disturbing about it? Potentially you don't like the idea of an angel of death?

 

The event is found in Exodus 12. The blood on the doorposts was to protect the Israelite families from the punishment meant for the Egyptians. The 1st born would be taken only if there was no blood put upon the doorpost of a given house.

 

Feel free to share.

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I'm with Sue D - what do you find disturbing?

 

 

Lemme speculate that some people are rudely awaken when they realize preconceived notions about God are not scriptural. They are forced to answer a question honestly, is my God scriptural? That is, opposed to a man made image projected upon a higher power. For example, is my idea of justice my standard for god, or is the Scriptural God the standard bearer for Justice?

 

The bible is not a fluffy story book of information. It includes actual historic events, and examples which we may be bothered by, and this is why we pray for discernment. Because not all examples in Scripture are to be followed, but rather learned from. Take for example the history of Israel, slaves of Egypt, whose history we learn from to this day. I realize that if we were to take a "modern" millennial approach to these events some may be disturbed that this occurred and they'd want to destroy the history or remove it from our text as are the actions of today's liberal/democrat party. Needlessly said, we'd be bound to repeat history because we do not learn from it.

 

God bless,

William

 

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I'm with Sue D - what do you find disturbing?

 

 

Lemme speculate that some people are rudely awaken when they realize preconceived notions about God are not scriptural. They are forced to answer a question honestly, is my God scriptural? That is, opposed to a man made image projected upon a higher power. For example, is my idea of justice my standard for god, or is the Scriptural God the standard bearer for Justice?

 

The bible is not a fluffy story book of information. It includes actual historic events, and examples which we may be bothered by, and this is why we pray for discernment. Because not all examples in Scripture are to be followed, but rather learned from. Take for example the history of Israel, slaves of Egypt, whose history we learn from to this day. I realize that if we were to take a "modern" millennial approach to these events some may be disturbed that this occurred and they'd want to destroy the history or remove it from our text as are the actions of today's liberal/democrat party. Needlessly said, we'd be bound to repeat history because we do not learn from it.

 

God bless,

William

That might be - but i'm not jumping the gun, Kathy can explain if she has a mind - and then I will do my best answer! The simply truth is that the Passover is disturbing - it should be! And because we know the terror of the Lord (because we are disturbed by it) we should be evangelizing (2 Cor 5:11) - that is why i ask my question - in what way is it disturbing?

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Ok, what I find disturbing is that there are folks who "celebrate" this event where all first born; including people and animals were killed with no defined or justified reason.

 

cel·e·brate

ˈseləˌbrāt/Submit

verb

1.

acknowledge (a significant or happy day or event) with a social gathering or enjoyable activity.

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Ten Commandments

  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
  5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.********************************************************************
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

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Ten Commandments
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
  5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.********************************************************************
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses to give to the Israelites. We are not to kill each other out of anger or 'just because' we feel like it.

 

God has given us His reason for killing the newborns of babies and animals. It was to the Egyptians The homes with the blood put on the door posts would be spared. So there was nothing helter-skeltor about it. God gave the people a way Out and they rejected it. Except for those who Did put the blood on their door posts.

 

Exodus 12 tell about it. Judgement against Pharaoh and the Egyptians. He was Finally willing to let God's people out from under slavery. But then Pharaoh had second thoughts and went after them. They came to the Red Sea and had to stop -- God parted the waters so they could safely cross over. The armies started through but the waters went back on them. The enemy drowned.

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Ok, what I find disturbing is that there are folks who "celebrate" this event where all first born; including people and animals were killed with no defined or justified reason.

Hi @kathydixon. To my way of thinking, what can rightly be celebrated about Passover is the rescue of Israel from bondage. They were powerless to save themselves, but God, acting to fulfill his promise from generations earlier, brought them out. The events of Passover prefigure the work of Christ to rescue us all from bondage to sin. In John 1:29, when John the Baptist calls Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, Christ is seen to be the promised sacrifice to which all the previous Passover lambs pointed. I don't think we can rightly celebrate or be happy about the death of all the firstborn of Egypt that took place on that night. It was a frightful thing to behold. But I think we can see it as a sobering demonstration of the offense of our sin against a holy and righteous God. If Christ did not intervene to absorb the judgment of God that was rightly due us, we would be without hope in the world.

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What ever God does is Godly it can be nothing else.

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Ok, what I find disturbing is that there are folks who "celebrate" this event where all first born; including people and animals were killed with no defined or justified reason.

Hi @kathydixon. To my way of thinking, what can rightly be celebrated about Passover is the rescue of Israel from bondage. They were powerless to save themselves, but God, acting to fulfill his promise from generations earlier, brought them out. The events of Passover prefigure the work of Christ to rescue us all from bondage to sin. In John 1:29, when John the Baptist calls Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, Christ is seen to be the promised sacrifice to which all the previous Passover lambs pointed. I don't think we can rightly celebrate or be happy about the death of all the firstborn of Egypt that took place on that night. It was a frightful thing to behold. But I think we can see it as a sobering demonstration of the offense of our sin against a holy and righteous God. If Christ did not intervene to absorb the judgment of God that was rightly due us, we would be without hope in the world.

Israel was rescued from bondage. Very well stated.

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Hi @kathydixon. To my way of thinking, what can rightly be celebrated about Passover is the rescue of Israel from bondage..,.,.,..

 

How do you explain this---------

 

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

(Gen 41:40 KJV) Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

(Gen 41:42 KJV) And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;

(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh King of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

 

Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelites who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.

 

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

 

See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt

 

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [iSRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [iSRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

 

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [iSRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

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Exo 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

 

Exo 1:13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:

Exo 1:14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.

Exo 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

Exo 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

 

 

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Hi @kathydixon, it is true that for a time, Joseph, and his family were respected and flourished in Egypt, but that was just a part of the story. For example, we have the promise of bondage followed by judgment and rescue back in Ge 15:13-14, "13 Then the LORD said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions." The events you record are where God brings Israel into Egypt and makes a great nation of them. But then in Ex 1:8 we read an ominous development, "8 Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph." Thus follows the long period of bondage predicted by God. Nevertheless, Israel continues to multiply in the land, in spite of the efforts of the Egyptians.

 

The early chapters of Exodus are filled with amazing statements and acts of God, where he first warns Pharaoh, and then finally acts to bring out his first born son, see Ex 3:19-22;4:22-23;7:3-5 and finally Ex 9:16. God shows loving care for his adopted children and firm judgment on those who resist his commands. In the death of Jesus, it is God's son himself who quenches the Father's wrath so that God can be both just and the justifier (Ro 3:26).

 

 

 

 

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Ok, what I find disturbing is that there are folks who "celebrate" this event where all first born; including people and animals were killed with no defined or justified reason.

 

cel·e·brate

ˈseləˌbrāt/Submit

verb

1.

acknowledge (a significant or happy day or event) with a social gathering or enjoyable activity.

 

Is God's judgement upon sin a good or bad thing?

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Ok, what I find disturbing is that there are folks who "celebrate" this event where all first born; including people and animals were killed with no defined or justified reason.

 

cel·e·brate

ˈseləˌbrāt/Submit

verb

1.

acknowledge (a significant or happy day or event) with a social gathering or enjoyable activity.

 

Is God's judgement upon sin a good or bad thing?

A three-way conversation for a moment -- Hi 'kathydixon' and is celebrating being delivered From Oppression a Bad thing? God was providing a way for Their lives to be Saved.

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Exo 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

 

Exo 1:13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:

Exo 1:14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.

Exo 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

Exo 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

 

Are you saying the Jews built the pyramids?

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I believe the only reason the Egyptians turned against the Israelite's is because of the following event---

 

Moses Kills an Egyptian

 

11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens:

and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

13And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow?

14And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian?

And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

15Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh,

and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/exodus/2.htm

 

I believe the above marks the beginning of the great Exodus and it was after this event that the Egyptians turned against the Israelites

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I believe the only reason the Egyptians turned against the Israelite's is because of the following event---

 

Moses Kills an Egyptian

 

11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens:

and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

13And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow?

14And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian?

And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

15Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh,

and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/exodus/2.htm

 

I believe the above marks the beginning of the great Exodus and it was after this event that the Egyptians turned against the Israelites

That event Did take place as Scriptures say it did.

 

So you're suggesting that if That incident hadn't taken place then none of the rest of it would have happened.

 

Let's back up in history a bit -- Back in Exodus 1 -- the descendants of Jacob numbered seventy in all and he was already in Egypt. Such a small number did not pose a threat.

 

Vs 6 -- Now Joseph and all his brothers and all that generation died, but the Israelites were fruitful and multiplied greatly and became exceedingly numerous, so that the land was filled with them.

 

Then a new king came and didn't know about Joseph -- and he said to his people that they needed to deal shrewedly with the people. or they will continue to grow in numbers and if a war comes, they will join the enemies and leave the country. So they became slaves -- slave masters over them -- but the more the Israelites worked building cities, etc, the more they multiplied.

 

Then the midwives were told to kill the male babies as soon as they were born, but to save the girl babies. But the midwives didn't obey the Egyptian king but obeyed the Lord by not killing the boys. Claimed they delivered so quickly it wasn't possible to kill the boys soon enough. The idea being that by killing their male babies their numbers would slow Way down.

 

The birth of Moses comes along. He is chosen by God to lead the people / Israelites/ away from the Egyptian slavery. Pharoah promises to let the people go and then refuses to time and again. The plagues take place, the plague of the first-born was amongst them. That Finally gets the attention of the Pharoah. He let's the people leave.

 

Exodus 12 -- vs 40 -- Now the length of time the Israelites lived in Egypt was 430 years to the day that the exodus out of Egypt began.

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The Egyptians were ALREADY 'against the Israelites' before Moses was born. He was saved as an infant by being hidden in a basket in the water when the EGYPTIANS were seeking to kill all Hebrew male babies.

It was definitely NOT something Moses did as an adult which "turned the Egyptians against the Jews'.

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The Egyptians were ALREADY 'against the Israelites' before Moses was born. He was saved as an infant by being hidden in a basket in the water when the EGYPTIANS were seeking to kill all Hebrew male babies.

It was definitely NOT something Moses did as an adult which "turned the Egyptians against the Jews'.

 

A quick answer to the is the time line. Who came first, Joseph or Moses?

 

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Exodus 13:19

And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him; for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying: 'God will surely remember you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.'

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