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2002

Healings.

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I was told that Baptists were "not into the healing of others".

I found this not to be true.

 

When I had my near death illness in 2002, I had a past of teaching the 5th, and 6th grades of Sunday School at our

Baptist church for some years. Then I became a greeter. When I collapsed and was sent off to the hospital for my

big operation, one of the deacons came to my hospital to pray for my recovery, and two of the older ladies who had worked

in the Sunday School, and had heard me talk made it their personal project to pray for me. God bless them.

Plus so many more.

 

After I started to slowly recover I prayed for others. You know God is wonderful. He does not make it a big deal

when he answers prayers and heals someone. Often he just quietly heals them, and people hardly notice, unless

we are the one being healed! Thank you, Jesus.

 

 

 

 

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I would suggest it all depends on what you mean by 'healing' I reject completely the madness of the charismatics but I practice James 5:14 - I pray for the sick.

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Yes, we should pray for the sick. I have heard that some do not believe that God is still in the healing business

in this 21st century. I had an online friend many years ago, (also a Baptist) while we were both in the process of recovering

from severe illnesses. We agreed that God does any wonderful thing that he wants to...if we have some faith.

Thanks to Jesus.

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Yes, we should pray for the sick. I have heard that some do not believe that God is still in the healing business

in this 21st century. I had an online friend many years ago, (also a Baptist) while we were both in the process of recovering

from severe illnesses. We agreed that God does any wonderful thing that he wants to...if we have some faith.

Thanks to Jesus.

 

According to Isaiah, Acts, James, Proverbs, Psalms, Mathew. God already paid for our healing. It's a promise and all the promises in Christ are yes. That' why James says "the prayer of faith, will heal the sick."

 

It does not say, as so many believe, pray in faith and God will Heal the sick. God already did His part, it is up to us to receive it.

 

James also told us how to pray in faith, like Enoch prayed for the sky to not rain. He commanded one time, and James called that "praying earnestly."

 

God is not choosing who gets healed and who doesn't. It is as Jesus said, according to our faith.

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Baptists are cessationist, as am I. We believe healing is no longer done in the same way it was with Christ and the apostles, but we still believe in healing and miracles, a sinner coming to repentance is a miracle. The healings that you see in Scripture were for the purpose of validating Christ and the apostles who were establishing the church, we now have all that's needed for doctrine, the Bible is finished and there are no modern day apostles.

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According to Isaiah, Acts, James, Proverbs, Psalms, Mathew. God already paid for our healing. It's a promise and all the promises in Christ are yes. That' why James says "the prayer of faith, will heal the sick."

 

It does not say, as so many believe, pray in faith and God will Heal the sick. God already did His part, it is up to us to receive it.

 

James also told us how to pray in faith, like Enoch prayed for the sky to not rain. He commanded one time, and James called that "praying earnestly."

 

God is not choosing who gets healed and who doesn't. It is as Jesus said, according to our faith.

 

Healing isn't a promise, we can see in Scripture were even the apostles weren't healed, and we know that Christians die.

The teaching that healing is a promise can be quite harmful, especially if someone has faith and isn't healed.

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God is not choosing who gets healed and who doesn't. It is as Jesus said, according to our faith.

 

I wouldn't mind hearing others elaborate more on Mark 5:34 etc.

  • And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."

I have come across some that have "twisted" these Scriptures in order to convey erroneous practices such as selling to the congregation merchandise (faith clothes) which may be touched to promote healing etc. What does Jesus mean by "your faith has made you well"? Through faith in Christ the woman received the cure from Him. The cure was not her act of faith that either merited, or procured it, but Christ Jesus' power, and He Himself the object of her faith that effected it. Christ, is the author and cause of spiritual salvation: faith looks to Christ for salvation, and receives every blessing of it from him. There are so many things wrong with what the woman did, but Jesus did not use this instance to reprove or rebuke her but instead encouraged her to exercise faith in Christ alone.

 

God bless,

William

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I wouldn't mind hearing others elaborate more on Mark 5:34 etc.

  • And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."

I have come across many that have "twisted" these Scriptures in order to convey erroneous practices such as selling of merchandise to the congregation faith clothes which may be touched to promote healing etc. What does Jesus mean by "your faith has made you well"? Through faith in Christ the woman received the cure from Him. The cure was not her act of faith that either merited, or procured it, but Christ Jesus' power, and He Himself the object of her faith that effected it. Christ, is the author and cause of spiritual salvation: faith looks to Christ for salvation, and receives every blessing of it from him. There are so many things wrong with what the woman did, but Jesus did not use this instance to reprove or rebuke her but instead encouraged her to exercise faith in Christ alone.

 

God bless,

William

 

Yes, also if you look at the woman with the issue of bleeding for 12 years as He was on the way to heal a 12 year old girl (hmmm), she snuck up behind Him received her healing before He even knew what happened. It wasn't a choice He made to heal or not heal. He healed ALL that were oppressed. And that all happened BEFORE He carried our sickness and pains to the Cross.

 

But you are right in saying it was the power of Jesus and The power of His name that heals, as it tells us in Acts 3:16 and again in 4:10 and faith in His name. It is a powerful name. That really hasn't changed over the years and we know He hasn't changed. The only part that has changed is ,"according to our faith," our faith has changed.

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The healings that you see in Scripture were for the purpose of validating Christ and the apostles who were establishing the church, we now have all that's needed for doctrine, the Bible is finished and there are no modern day apostles.

 

Like you, I am a "soft" cessationist. I have confronted another about their continuist doctrines. They conveyed they believe modern day apostles are still establishing the church in other parts of the world.

 

I pretty much think that certain gifts have ceased after establishing the church which mainly revolves around the closing of the Canon. I can hear the cliches now, "you're putting God in a box".

 

God bless,

William

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Like you, I am a "soft" cessationist. I have confronted another about their continuist doctrines. They conveyed they believe modern day apostles are still establishing the church in other parts of the world.

 

I pretty much think that certain gifts have ceased on establishing the church which mainly revolves around the closing of the Canon. I can here the punch line now, "you're putting God in a box".

 

God bless,

William

 

Paul saw the man had faith for healing as he was speaking (Acts 14). What was Paul speaking: what was he saying? It tells us in Acts 14:7 exactly what He was saying that caused the man to have faith. It wasn't some strange temporary power that was a secret to us because it was none of our business. That would have to be a false doctrine because there is zero mention of it in Scripture. Zero.

 

I believe that by His stripes we are healed. I believe that He carried (bore them on the cross) our sicknesses and our pains. I believe it because that is exactly what the word says. YLT.

 

How can I be the one twisting scripture, when I'm quoting it. I'm not paraphrasing, adding to or taking away. I'm quoting. i'm the one who believes it means what it says.

 

What do you think the punishment is for someone like me who TAKES Him at His Word?

 

Proverbs 4:20-22 is not talking about healing in the spirit, the Word (Christ) is healing to ALL OUR Flesh.

 

Unless you've got scripture saying otherwise, I'm sticking with God on this. I've already tasted that power of the coming Kingdom, it would be foolish to turn back now.

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It wasn't some strange temporary power that was a secret to us because it was none of our business. That would have to be a false doctrine because there is zero mention of it in Scripture. Zero.

 

I'm not sure we are on the same page or whether you mistakenly quoted me when my response was made to Innerfire. However, by "temporary" power you seemingly imply that you oppose the theological camp known as cessationism which holds the view that charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history. Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle.

 

If you're asking for Scriptures which convey this doctrine, I'm sure members are willing to oblige.

 

God bless,

William

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Paul saw the man had faith for healing as he was speaking (Acts 14). What was Paul speaking: what was he saying? It tells us in Acts 14:7 exactly what He was saying that caused the man to have faith. It wasn't some strange temporary power that was a secret to us because it was none of our business. That would have to be a false doctrine because there is zero mention of it in Scripture. Zero.

 

I believe that by His stripes we are healed. I believe that He carried (bore them on the cross) our sicknesses and our pains. I believe it because that is exactly what the word says. YLT.

 

How can I be the one twisting scripture, when I'm quoting it. I'm not paraphrasing, adding to or taking away. I'm quoting. i'm the one who believes it means what it says.

 

What do you think the punishment is for someone like me who TAKES Him at His Word?

 

Proverbs 4:20-22 is not talking about healing in the spirit, the Word (Christ) is healing to ALL OUR Flesh.

 

Unless you've got scripture saying otherwise, I'm sticking with God on this. I've already tasted that power of the coming Kingdom, it would be foolish to turn back now.

 

Proverbs 4:20-22 is about following God's commandments and keeping them in the heart in context. The heart is like the engine of the body, if the heart is good then the rest of the body is along with it.

 

 

 

​​​​​​

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I'm not sure we are on the same page or whether you mistakenly quoted me when my response was made to Innerfire. However, by "temporary" power you seemingly imply that you oppose the theological camp known as cessationism which holds the view that charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history. Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle.

 

If you're asking for Scriptures which convey this doctrine, I'm sure members are willing to oblige.

 

God bless,

William

 

Then I will keep waiting and trusting God. Have you considered what I said, and what I asked?

 

I don't know about all the gifts of the spirit. I do have a theory on prophesy, though, but don't know for sure. I'm not charismatic, so not sure what they believe.

 

I remember before I believed as I do, there was so much in Scripture i didn't believe. I' just trying to convince Christians they can trust His Word as written.

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Then I will keep waiting and trusting God. Have you considered what I said, and what I asked?

 

I don't know about all the gifts of the spirit. I do have a theory on prophesy, though, but don't know for sure. I'm not charismatic, so not sure what they believe.

 

I remember before I believed as I do, there was so much in Scripture i didn't believe. I' just trying to convince Christians they can trust His Word as written.

 

Your posts make no sense to me. I think you do not understand what is being said. As a result you're redirecting and making a straw man. The point was not about believing Scripture, but is about the charismatic gifts of the Spirit. And no one opposes you "waiting and trusting God".

 

God bless,

William

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Proverbs 4:20-22 is about following God's commandments and keeping them in the heart in context. The heart is like the engine of the body, if the heart is good then the rest of the body is along with it.

 

 

 

​​​​​​

 

Do you think only His commandments will give life to our MORTAL bodies? Scripture tells us that if there was a commandment that could be given that would give life, then righteousness would have come by the law. But there was no such commandment.

 

in fact, Paul called the 10 Commandments the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:6-11). Proverbs 4:20-22 is most definitely not referring to the commandments, but the word of Truth. Besides, it doesn't say commandments it says my words.

 

Jesus Christ is that Word.

 

I am not singling you out on this, we all do it, but when we are tweeking the word to fit our doctrine, we are never going to grow in truth. We must tweek our doctrine to fit the truths we find in the word, to better match what the word says. If we are open to do that, there is so much He can show us. Otherwise, we would need to unlearn so much. I know, I've lived it and am still being transformed. It all starts by being honest with ourselves and God. Admit it. This is what it says, but I don't

Believe it. I believe it means something else. But you'd really have to want to know the truth before you begin seeking it.

 

Work OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling. Not work FOR, but work it out.

 

The woman with the issue of bleeding 12 years, said in her heart, if I can only touch the hem of His garment I will Have My Salvation. She was fearing and trembling for the good that was done to her. Jeremiah 33:9

 

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Your posts make no sense to me. I think you do not understand what is being said. As a result you're redirecting and making a straw man. The point was not about believing Scripture, but is about the charismatic gifts of the Spirit. And no one opposes you "waiting and trusting God".

 

God bless,

William

 

You said that if I'm asking for scriptures that convey this doctrine (of Cessation), you'r sure members will oblige.

 

That is what I'm still waiting for. And I'm going to trust His promises for healing, instead of trusting someone' s doctrine They can't support with scripture. They can give seemingly vague passages they can twist to agree with their beliefs, but there is no scripture that says anything along the lines of healing passed and is not one of the promises of the new and better covenant. Hebrews 8:6 or that we are not redeemed from ALL the curses of the law (listed in Deuteronomy 28). They dont believe what it says, so they change it to better fit what they do believe. Forgive me, but im not going to do that.

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I was told that Baptists were "not into the healing of others".

I found this not to be true.

 

When I had my near death illness in 2002, I had a past of teaching the 5th, and 6th grades of Sunday School at our

Baptist church for some years. Then I became a greeter. When I collapsed and was sent off to the hospital for my

big operation, one of the deacons came to my hospital to pray for my recovery, and two of the older ladies who had worked

in the Sunday School, and had heard me talk made it their personal project to pray for me. God bless them.

Plus so many more.

 

After I started to slowly recover I prayed for others. You know God is wonderful. He does not make it a big deal

when he answers prayers and heals someone. Often he just quietly heals them, and people hardly notice, unless

we are the one being healed! Thank you, Jesus.

 

 

 

 

2002, Yes Baptists do believe in healing, but Scriptural healing's. James 5:13-16 gives specified instructions. I have been anointed with oil several times when I was near death. I always pray and have others pray that I am in the center of Gods will. No other place is where I want to be.

 

I reject Word of Faith shuck and jive slick money grabbing fake healing's!

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Do you think only His commandments will give life to our MORTAL bodies? Scripture tells us that if there was a commandment that could be given that would give life, then righteousness would have come by the law. But there was no such commandment.

in fact, Paul called the 10 Commandments the ministry of death and condemnation (<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Cor%203.6-11'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Cor%203.6-11'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Cor%203.6-11" data-reference="<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Cor%203.6-11" data-reference="2 Cor 3.6-11" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">2 Cor 3.6-11</a>" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank"><a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Cor%203.6-11" data-reference="2 Cor 3.6-11" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">2 Corinthians 3:6-11</a></a>). <a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Prov%204.20-22'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Prov%204.20-22'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Prov%204.20-22" data-reference="<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Prov%204.20-22" data-reference="Prov 4.20-22" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Prov 4.20-22</a>" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank"><a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Prov%204.20-22" data-reference="Prov 4.20-22" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Proverbs 4:20-22</a></a> is most definitely not referring to the commandments, but the word of Truth. Besides, it doesn't say commandments it says my words.

Jesus Christ is that Word.

I am not singling you out on this, we all do it, but when we are tweeking the word to fit our doctrine, we are never going to grow in truth. We must tweek our doctrine to fit the truths we find in the word, to better match what the word says. If we are open to do that, there is so much He can show us. Otherwise, we would need to unlearn so much. I know, I've lived it and am still being transformed. It all starts by being honest with ourselves and God. Admit it. This is what it says, but I don't

Believe it. I believe it means something else. But you'd really have to want to know the truth before you begin seeking it.

Work OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling. Not work FOR, but work it out.

The woman with the issue of bleeding 12 years, said in her heart, if I can only touch the hem of His garment I will Have My Salvation. She was fearing and trembling for the good that was done to her. <a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jer%2033.9'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jer%2033.9'>https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jer%2033.9" data-reference="<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jer%2033.9" data-reference="Jer 33.9" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Jer 33.9</a>" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank"><a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jer%2033.9" data-reference="Jer 33.9" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Jeremiah 33:9</a></a>

 

​​​​​​You're misunderstanding. The point I'm making is that God's commands are good, they keep us from the harm of sin, the verse in question isn't talking about being healed from aliments but making the whole body healthy from by heart the heart.

 

I see what the verse says, but there's more to understanding the verse than just reading it alone, but looking at what the Bible says before and after that verse and what the rest of the Bible says.

 

If healing is a promise to those with faith, then what do make of Christians die who from diseases like cancer? Did they die from lack of faith? Can we live until Christ return no matter how long away it is?

​​​​​​​Why does Paul tell Peter to drink a little wine for his stomach troubles (1st Timothy 5:23)if he could just be healed?

​​​​​​​We look forward to having new heavenly bodies that will never get sick and never die, that's in the future with God for eternity, not now in this flesh.

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​​​​​​You're misunderstanding. The point I'm making is that God's commands are good, they keep us from the harm of sin, the verse in question isn't talking about being healed from aliments but making the whole body healthy from by heart the heart.

 

I see what the verse says, but there's more to understanding the verse than just reading it alone, but looking at what the Bible says before and after that verse and what the rest of the Bible says.

 

If healing is a promise to those with faith, then what do make of Christians die who from diseases like cancer? Did they die from lack of faith? Can we live until Christ return no matter how long away it is?

Why does Paul tell Peter to drink a little wine for his stomach troubles (1st Timothy 5:23)if he could just be healed?

​​​​​​​We look forward to having new heavenly bodies that will never get sick and never die, that's in the future with God for eternity, not now in this flesh.

 

No, we are subject to die because of sin. But it doesn't have to be by disease. With long life God promised Abraham he would be satisfied. Abrahm , when satisfied with his long life just laid down and gave up the ghost. We are blessed with Abraham as a promise God made to Abraham.

 

Faith in Christ is not what heals us. Believing in His promise of healing is the only thing that will cause us to pray the prayer of faith. How can you pray a prayer of faith for healing unless you believe whole heartedly in Healing. "Please Heal, if it be your will...." is not a prayer of faith. It's a prayer of hope. Nothing wrong with hope but that isn't what James tells us WILL HEAL the sick.

 

James also tells us that if we are wishy washy, we shouldn't expect anything of God. Those Christians who have faith in Christ but still get sick do believe in Christ but not in His promise of healing. There are too many people speaking against it, and "faith comes by hearing."

 

Timothy did get healed often, and got sick again. Paul wasn't telling him to drink wine as a medicine but as a substiute for bad water. The water was bad and making him sick.

 

But we shouldn't be looking at circumstances, we should be looking at scripture and walking by faith. We shouldn't be bringing Scripture down to what we experience, but bringing our experiences up to what scripture says.

 

Seeing it not believing, Believing is seeing. I was convinced that healing scripture was true long before I saw it. I knew I didn't know all there is to know about His goodness. I knew there is more, so I was seeking with all my heart. I found healing, and I'm still seeking more of His goodness. He gave me His most prize possession, is there any good thing He would withhold?

 

I know there are a lot of Christians perverting this truth, but that doesn't make it any less true. I've seen miracles that never went on tv, or that never cost anyone a dime. Then I started praying for healing, commanding it like James tells us that Enoch did the rain. I've had many healed when I prayed. It was all done, one on one, in private.

 

But the verse I gave you, you said that you have to look at the verses before and after to get the context. Ok, show me. How am I taking it out of context? Show me on these verses too.

 

Psalms 103:2-3

Romans 8:11

 

​​​​​​​Eternal life is not something that starts at some point in the future. Today is the day of Salvation. Look up salvation in the Greek. It's

Wholeness.

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That is what I'm still waiting for.

 

I know a futile effort when I come upon it.

 

And I'm going to trust His promises for healing, instead of trusting someone' s doctrine

 

How do you know this when you do not even know what the doctrine states?

 

They can't support with scripture.

 

Again, you're argumentative, plainly argumentative, you don't even know what you're opposing but you're arguing.

 

Take this for example:

 

No, we are subject to die because of sin. But it doesn't have to be by disease. With long life God promised Abraham he would be satisfied. Abrahm , when satisfied with his long life just laid down and gave up the ghost. We are blessed with Abraham as a promise God made to Abraham.

 

Just look how you twisted Scripture:

  • Genesis 25:8 KJV Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
  • Genesis 25:8 ESV Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

Faith in Christ is not what heals us.

 

Dangerous.

 

Believing in His promise of healing is the only thing that will cause us to pray the prayer of faith. How can you pray a prayer of faith for healing unless you believe whole heartedly in Healing. "Please Heal, if it be your will...." is not a prayer of faith. It's a prayer of hope. Nothing wrong with hope but that isn't what James tells us WILL HEAL the sick.

 

Lets think about what you just stated for a moment.

 

No wonder certain Christian doctrines open the door to exploitation. With just a small clip of your teaching, I'd like to ask you, why is it that those faith based groups which follow continuism are more subject to exploitation, there are more wolves in such folds than in denominations that adhere to cessationism? We never hear about scam artist in the Reformed faith, for example, but it is so common place in amongst certain groups/movements/denominations that peddle spiritual gifts that no one raises an eyebrow.

 

Take this for example. Lemme back up and ask others to really think about this, lemme back up:

 

And I'm going to trust His promises for healing, instead of trusting someone' s doctrine

 

Without even knowing if this particular doctrine is Scriptural, you already suggest that one is either faced with a choice to believe God or man. You assume that your doctrine is conveyed by Scripture rather than man and then you go on to prove your doctrine by demonstrating several verses pulled from context and twisted to fit your teaching.

 

James also tells us that if we are wishy washy, we shouldn't expect anything of God. Those Christians who have faith in Christ but still get sick do believe in Christ but not in His promise of healing. There are too many people speaking against it, and "faith comes by hearing."

 

Dangerous.

 

God bless,

William

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That is what I'm still waiting for.

 

I know a futile effort when I come upon it.

 

And I'm going to trust His promises for healing, instead of trusting someone' s doctrine

 

How do you know this when you do not even know what the doctrine states?

 

They can't support with scripture.

 

Again, you're argumentative, plainly argumentative, you don't even know what you're opposing but you're arguing.

 

Take this for example:

 

No, we are subject to die because of sin. But it doesn't have to be by disease. With long life God promised Abraham he would be satisfied. Abrahm , when satisfied with his long life just laid down and gave up the ghost. We are blessed with Abraham as a promise God made to Abraham.

 

Just look how you twisted Scripture:

  • Genesis 25:8 KJV Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
  • Genesis 25:8 ESV Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

Faith in Christ is not what heals us.

 

Dangerous.

 

Believing in His promise of healing is the only thing that will cause us to pray the prayer of faith. How can you pray a prayer of faith for healing unless you believe whole heartedly in Healing. "Please Heal, if it be your will...." is not a prayer of faith. It's a prayer of hope. Nothing wrong with hope but that isn't what James tells us WILL HEAL the sick.

 

Lets think about what you just stated for a moment.

 

No wonder certain Christian doctrines open the door to exploitation. With just a small clip of your teaching, I'd like to ask you, why is it that those faith based groups which follow continuism are more subject to exploitation, there are more wolves in such folds than in denominations that adhere to cessationism? We never hear about scam artist in the Reformed faith, for example, but it is so common place in amongst certain groups/movements/denominations that peddle spiritual gifts that no one raises an eyebrow.

 

Take this for example. Lemme back up and ask others to really think about this, lemme back up:

 

And I'm going to trust His promises for healing, instead of trusting someone' s doctrine

 

Without even knowing if this particular doctrine is Scriptural, you already suggest that one is either faced with a choice to believe God or man. You assume that your doctrine is conveyed by Scripture rather than man and then you go on to prove your doctrine by demonstrating several verses pulled from context and twisted to fit your teaching.

 

James also tells us that if we are wishy washy, we shouldn't expect anything of God. Those Christians who have faith in Christ but still get sick do believe in Christ but not in His promise of healing. There are too many people speaking against it, and "faith comes by hearing."

 

Dangerous.

 

God bless,

William

Oh my, I can't believe what Ransol has said. William its more than dangerous, its against Scripture from which our Doctrines are solidly based. This is cultist to say the least. With out knowing what the Scripture accurately says, some base they belief's on one verse that is incomplete. How can anyone's trust in just one verse taken out of context heal a person and give long life? This is beyond me.

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I know a futile effort when I come upon it.

 

 

 

How do you know this when you do not even know what the doctrine states?

 

I know what the doctrine states. I lived under that doctrine for over 35 years. Now, I know how to rebute that doctrine with truth from scripture. I battled the healing doctrine with all that I had for over a year. I know what I believe and how to back it up with scripture.

 

Again, you're argumentative, plainly argumentative, you don't even know what you're opposing but you're arguing.

 

Take this for example:

 

 

 

Do you not believe God uses ordinary means to accomplish His will in bringing death to mankind?

 

Do you think "death to mankind" is God's will? Death is God's enemy. He told Adam NOT to eat the fruit because death wasn't His will for mankind.

 

 

Just look how you twisted Scripture:

  • Genesis 25:8 KJV Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
  • Genesis 25:8 ESV Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

 

Dangerous.

 

 

 

Lets think about what you just stated for a moment.

 

No wonder certain Christian doctrines open the door to exploitation. With just a small clip of your teaching, I'd like to ask you, why is it that those faith based groups which follow continuism are more subject to exploitation, there are more wolves in such folds than in denominations that adhere to cessationism? We never hear about scam artist in the Reformed faith, for example, but it is so common place in amongst certain groups/movements/denominations that peddle spiritual gifts that no one raises an eyebrow.

 

Good Question. Why would Satan try to destroy and silence these groups of people, and discredit them, but leave those who believe they have no power in Christ, alone? Why would Satan do that? Come to think of it, he did the same thing to sex. It sex bad?

 

 

Take this for example. Lemme back up and ask others to really think about this, lemme back up:

 

 

 

Without even knowing if this particular doctrine is Scriptural, you already suggest that one is either faced with a choice to believe God or man. You assume that your doctrine is conveyed by Scripture rather than man and then you go on to prove your doctrine by demonstrating several verses pulled from context and twisted to fit your teaching.

 

No, that's not what I'm doing. I am QUOTING scripture and telling you that I believe what it says. While you are telling me it doesn't mean what it says, it means something else. Then you tell me that I am the one Twisting scripture. You dont believe that we are healed by His stripe. You don't believe that He bore our sickness and carried our pains. I do, just like it says.

 

You don't believe Romans 8:11 That the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead will also quicken our MORTAL bodies. You probably think He quickens our spiritual bodies. But that is not what it says. I believe it means what it says. I am not the one twisting, I am believing.

 

 

Dangerous.

Dangerous??? Got any scripture?

 

Look, I am not saying you are wrong in your doctrine. I am trying to show you there is so much more. Your doctrine is not wrong, it is incomplete. He is so good. So much better than we know. Don't stop seeking the more. The better promises that our new covenant is based on.

 

God bless,

William

 

I am blessed. You would not believe how blessed I really am. I truly have all the blessings of Abraham. He is so good.

 

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I know a futile effort when I come upon it.

 

 

 

How do you know this when you do not even know what the doctrine states?

 

 

 

Again, you're argumentative, plainly argumentative, you don't even know what you're opposing but you're arguing.

 

Take this for example:

 

 

 

Do you not believe God uses ordinary means to accomplish His will in bringing death to mankind?

 

Just look how you twisted Scripture:

  • Genesis 25:8 KJV Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
  • Genesis 25:8 ESV Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

 

Dangerous.

 

 

 

Lets think about what you just stated for a moment.

 

No wonder certain Christian doctrines open the door to exploitation. With just a small clip of your teaching, I'd like to ask you, why is it that those faith based groups which follow continuism are more subject to exploitation, there are more wolves in such folds than in denominations that adhere to cessationism? We never hear about scam artist in the Reformed faith, for example, but it is so common place in amongst certain groups/movements/denominations that peddle spiritual gifts that no one raises an eyebrow.

 

Take this for example. Lemme back up and ask others to really think about this, lemme back up:

 

 

 

Without even knowing if this particular doctrine is Scriptural, you already suggest that one is either faced with a choice to believe God or man. You assume that your doctrine is conveyed by Scripture rather than man and then you go on to prove your doctrine by demonstrating several verses pulled from context and twisted to fit your teaching.

 

 

 

Dangerous.

 

God bless,

William

 

Hey, that didn't work. I tried quoting and posting after each section like you did, but it all ended up in the quote box. Look in there to see my replies.

 

sorry about that. Not sure how to do it from my phone.

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No, we are subject to die because of sin. But it doesn't have to be by disease. With long life God promised Abraham he would be satisfied. Abrahm , when satisfied with his long life just laid down and gave up the ghost. We are blessed with Abraham as a promise God made to Abraham.

Faith in Christ is not what heals us. Believing in His promise of healing is the only thing that will cause us to pray the prayer of faith. How can you pray a prayer of faith for healing unless you believe whole heartedly in Healing. "Please Heal, if it be your will...." is not a prayer of faith. It's a prayer of hope. Nothing wrong with hope but that isn't what James tells us WILL HEAL the sick.

James also tells us that if we are wishy washy, we shouldn't expect anything of God. Those Christians who have faith in Christ but still get sick do believe in Christ but not in His promise of healing. There are too many people speaking against it, and "faith comes by hearing."

Timothy did get healed often, and got sick again. Paul wasn't telling him to drink wine as a medicine but as a substiute for bad water. The water was bad and making him sick.

But we shouldn't be looking at circumstances, we should be looking at scripture and walking by faith. We shouldn't be bringing Scripture down to what we experience, but bringing our experiences up to what scripture says.

Seeing it not believing, Believing is seeing. I was convinced that healing scripture was true long before I saw it. I knew I didn't know all there is to know about His goodness. I knew there is more, so I was seeking with all my heart. I found healing, and I'm still seeking more of His goodness. He gave me His most prize possession, is there any good thing He would withhold?

I know there are a lot of Christians perverting this truth, but that doesn't make it any less true. I've seen miracles that never went on tv, or that never cost anyone a dime. Then I started praying for healing, commanding it like James tells us that Enoch did the rain. I've had many healed when I prayed. It was all done, one on one, in private.

But the verse I gave you, you said that you have to look at the verses before and after to get the context. Ok, show me. How am I taking it out of context? Show me on these verses too.

Psalms 103:2-3;Romans 8:11

Eternal life is not something that starts at some point in the future. Today is the day of Salvation. Look up salvation in the Greek. It's

Wholeness.

In other words, because Abraham was satisfied with life he committed some sort of suicide. Disease is an effect of sin as is death.

So I should pray that my will be done because I have faith?

Where are you finding in Scripture that the water was bad? And if the water was bad would pual not tell to stop drinking the water? Pual told him to drink a little wine and not only water, so Timothy would have been still drinking the bad water.

No ones bringing Scripture down to meet their experiences, you're looking for what you think you should be experiencing.

​​

The Gospel isn't a means to have a great life in present, but in the future, in heaven.

I have no idea what you seen, but because you saw it isn't a vailid argument.

Proverbs 4:1-2 Hear, ye children, the insrtuction of a father and attend to know understanding. For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 5:12-13 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straightened, when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble. Take fast hold of instruction, let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

​​​​​​​

Psalms 103: 3 you're putting too much emphasis on this verse to mean litteraly every disease every time that one has a disease. And what do you say killed king David why wasn't it healed? He couldn't get warmth and died.

 

Romans 8:11 has nothing to do with healing, but regeneration, being made a new creature in Christ. It truly makes me sad to see what you're missing by this doctrine of isolating and pulling verses out of context.

 

 

​​​​​​But you don't get is that we're not in paridice yet, there will be a day of no more tears, no more pain, no more death, it's not today in the earthly flesh.

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In other words, because Abraham was satisfied with life he committed some sort of suicide. Disease is an effect of sin as is death.

So I should pray that my will be done because I have faith?

Where are you finding in Scripture that the water was bad? And if the water was bad would pual not tell to stop drinking the water? Pual told him to drink a little wine and not only water, so Timothy would have been still drinking the bad water.

No ones bringing Scripture down to meet their experiences, you're looking for what you think you should be experiencing.

​​

The Gospel isn't a means to have a great life in present, but in the future, in heaven.

I have no idea what you seen, but because you saw it isn't a vailid argument.

Proverbs 4:1-2 Hear, ye children, the insrtuction of a father and attend to know understanding. For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 5:12-13 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straightened, when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble. Take fast hold of instruction, let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

 

Psalms 103: 3 you're putting too much emphasis on this verse to mean litteraly every disease every time that one has a disease. And what do you say killed king David why wasn't it healed? He couldn't get warmth and died.

 

Romans 8:11 has nothing to do with healing, but regeneration, being made a new creature in Christ. It truly makes me sad to see what you're missing by this doctrine of isolating and pulling verses out of context.

 

 

​​​​​​But you don't get is that we're not in paridice yet, there will be a day of no more tears, no more pain, no more death, it's not today in the earthly flesh.

 

1 Timothy 5:23 No longer drink water, but a little wine for Thy often infirmities. YLT Paul did tell him to stop drinking water, so I came to the same conclusion you did, when you said if the water was bad Paul would just tell him to stop drinking the water.

 

Yes, disease is an effect of sin, as is death, but death is a curse of the fall, a physical death as well as spiritual. Sickness was not a curse of the fall but a curse of the law (Deuteronomy 28 lists all the curses and the blessings of the law). We are redeemed from the curse of the law, but only if we are not under the law.

 

Psalms 103:3 too much emphasis? Do you think the words ALL YOUR DISEASES is a mistake? And King David was under the law, not under the covenant of Grace. We are not blessed with the blessings of David, we are blessed with the blessings of Abraham who was not under the law covenant.

 

Romans 8:11. Regeneration? How do you get that? Yes we are a new creation in Christ, but that is our spirit, not our MORTAL bodies. One day soon, we will get a new physical body but that body is not MORTAL, it is immortal. This verse says the Holy Spirit quickens our mortal body, not our spirit, and not our immortal bodies that we don't even have yet.

 

You do know that the Holy Spirit is inside of us today, right? He isn't a promise of the future but for us here and now and forever.

 

Do you really believe that all that power of the Holy Spirit is inside of us and He leaves us helpless? No, we are more than conquerors. He came to give us life and life more abundant. He didn't say eternal life, of course He gives us that too, but here He is talking about LIFE here and now. The abundant life that Abraham had.

 

Maybe you need to figure some other things out before you're ready to grasp the goodness of God and His Blessings. I would suggest looking into righteousness. Hebrews 5:13 tells us that a babe is one that uses milk and not meat because he is unskillful in the word of righteousness.

 

We are righteous because of our faith in Christ--righteous with His righteousness, not our own. Our righteousness is obtained by the law, but that won't save us. His righteousness is a free gift to all who believe. Maybe work that out and the differences between the law covenant and the new covenant of Grace. Maybe once you can better divide the Word between those two truths, then you would be eager to accept the word for what it says instead of what we thing it means.

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