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marknoo

Revelations 21:8 and Liars + Fearful

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But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and

sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and

brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

 

What is it that makes "Liars" such a big problem. Is this talking about my grandmother who was a shameless gossip and switched the stories to suit whatever audience she was talking to. So sometimes the same story might get a sympathetic retelling and to another person retelling the story might be more condemning in nature.

I loved my Grandmother but she was a horrible gossip.

 

Is that the liars that we are talking about or are we talking about "false witness against our neighbors" and getting them into trouble with the authorities, or something like that.

 

for Whoremongers we know God strongly opposes sexual immorality

for Idolaters we know that God regards this as a betrayal of a very intimate nature, like a spouse cheating on their spouse

most of these seem fairly straightforward but why are "liars" included

 

and what is going on with the "fearful"

this cannot mean fear of the Lord as in "respect for the Lord" so what does it mean, is it like the guys who run and ask the rocks to fall on them when they see the lamb, they are not able to ask the lamb for forgiveness so they run in fear. Is that, sort or, what we are talking about with "fearful"

 

Is this the right place to ask this. I started out in the Calvanist forum but noticed it was a sub-group of soteriology. and this is eschatology. If it is in the wrong spot I apologize, I did look, I just don't know where to put it. It doesn't seem like prophecy to me but maybe it is

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I see the fearful and cowards as those who were to afraid to take up their cross and follow Christ, they feared pursicution.

 

The subject of lying is a little tricky, it's seems like a lying isn't always wrong but then it is. Lying always misleads people, Satan is called the father of lies, but maybe it depends on the intent or situation.

 

I'm not sure what to say about your grandma, but I'll say that everyone sins, but not everyone is a siner. Those that live by sin are cast into hell.

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I see the fearful and cowards as those who were to afraid to take up their cross and follow Christ, they feared pursicution.

 

The subject of lying is a little tricky, it's seems like a lying isn't always wrong but then it is. Lying always misleads people, Satan is called the father of lies, but maybe it depends on the intent or situation.

 

I'm not sure what to say about your grandma, but I'll say that everyone sins, but not everyone is a siner. Those that live by sin are cast into hell.

 

That does make sense about the "fearful". I guess I was reading it from my perspective, instead of from the point of view of someone 2000 years ago. It was very dangerous to be a Christian for quite awhile in the Roman Empire, at least until about 350 AD or so, for that matter it was dangerous to be a Christian if you happened to be around a High Priest or someone like Paul who was sent out to find Christians.

 

It seems obvious now that you have said it, but when I first read it I couldn't figure it out..

 

THank you

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Posted (edited)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and

sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and

brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

 

What is it that makes "Liars" such a big problem. Is this talking about my grandmother who was a shameless gossip and switched the stories to suit whatever audience she was talking to. So sometimes the same story might get a sympathetic retelling and to another person retelling the story might be more condemning in nature.

I loved my Grandmother but she was a horrible gossip.

 

Is that the liars that we are talking about or are we talking about "false witness against our neighbors" and getting them into trouble with the authorities, or something like that.

 

for Whoremongers we know God strongly opposes sexual immorality

for Idolaters we know that God regards this as a betrayal of a very intimate nature, like a spouse cheating on their spouse

most of these seem fairly straightforward but why are "liars" included

 

and what is going on with the "fearful"

this cannot mean fear of the Lord as in "respect for the Lord" so what does it mean, is it like the guys who run and ask the rocks to fall on them when they see the lamb, they are not able to ask the lamb for forgiveness so they run in fear. Is that, sort or, what we are talking about with "fearful"

 

Is this the right place to ask this. I started out in the Calvanist forum but noticed it was a sub-group of soteriology. and this is eschatology. If it is in the wrong spot I apologize, I did look, I just don't know where to put it. It doesn't seem like prophecy to me but maybe it is

 

The fearful are those who- in the face of persecution and martyrdom fall away. Liars are all those who do the will of the father of lies, for he has lied from the beginning, and to whom? Of course not God for God knows him, he has lied to the 1/3 he took with him when cast out of heaven and to Eve, and the lie will continue to the end. The liars lie about Christ. As for your grandmother, I can not judge her. I do not know her end and it is not the issue of discussion, prophecy is. God judges hearts no man can do that. Her fate is in God's hands. I can say nothing concerning her faith I did not know her.

James4:11-12

Drawing Near to God

…11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the Law and judges it. And if you judge the Law, you are not a practitioner of the Law, but a judge of it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

 

As for talking or bearing "false witness against your neighbor" God is clear.

Edited by GodIsMyJudge

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The Revelation 21 passage -- people that do those things as a life-style. One of the problems With lying is loosing your credibility with others -- your reputation -- you can't be believed.

 

Being a false witness -- hurting a person's reputation when they are innocent. A person who gets mad at another person and chooses to get back at them by spreading rumors - probably / possibly vicious in nature.

 

People who do those things are not showing the fruits of having the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

 

The indwelling Holy Spirit Will give a person boldness to share Christ with others.

 

Another poster commented that every one sins, but not everyone is a sinner? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I suspect that That poster didn't mean what he typed. We sin because we're sinners.

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The Revelation 21 passage -- people that do those things as a life-style. One of the problems With lying is loosing your credibility with others -- your reputation -- you can't be believed.

 

Being a false witness -- hurting a person's reputation when they are innocent. A person who gets mad at another person and chooses to get back at them by spreading rumors - probably / possibly vicious in nature.

 

People who do those things are not showing the fruits of having the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

 

The indwelling Holy Spirit Will give a person boldness to share Christ with others.

 

Another poster commented that every one sins, but not everyone is a sinner? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I suspect that That poster didn't mean what he typed. We sin because we're sinners.

What I mean by a sinner is a reprobate, a slave to sin. Like saying everyone makes jokes but not everyone is comedian.

You'll notice that the very next sentence after I said that says, "Those that live by sin are cast into hell"

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I think a great way to phrase it is, " There are people who sin and people who love sin." I think all people do things wrong, but what separates a child of God from the rest, is that he does not accept his short cominings and always repents and goes to God to fix all his flaws. It is like "a sinner is a saint who got back up". Gods children keep striving for perfection.

Genesis 4:6-8

Cain and Abel

…6Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." 8Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.…

 

The one who loves sin is like Cain, those like Abel , do not.

Matthew 5:47-48

Love Your Enemies

…47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

 

The end result for the ones who do not love sin, is to abide.

1John3:8-10

Children of God

…8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…

 

And in no way does Christ say it will be easy.

Matthew7:12-14

The Narrow Gate

12In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. 13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

God Bless!

 

 

 

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The Revelation 21 passage -- people that do those things as a life-style. One of the problems With lying is loosing your credibility with others -- your reputation -- you can't be believed.

 

Being a false witness -- hurting a person's reputation when they are innocent. A person who gets mad at another person and chooses to get back at them by spreading rumors - probably / possibly vicious in nature.

 

People who do those things are not showing the fruits of having the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

 

The indwelling Holy Spirit Will give a person boldness to share Christ with others.

 

Another poster commented that every one sins, but not everyone is a sinner? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I suspect that That poster didn't mean what he typed. We sin because we're sinners.

Okay -- thanks for clarifying.

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Another poster commented that every one sins, but not everyone is a sinner? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I suspect that That poster didn't mean what he typed. We sin because we're sinners.

 

Yes, we SIN because we are sinners. It is Our nature. But we have been given a new nature: His nature.

 

If you look at Romans 5:19. It spells it out clearly. By one man's disobedience many were made sinners. But the obedience of one (Christ) many will be made righteous.

 

So, we who believe in Christ are no longer sinners but we are righteous, justified, redeemed, sanctified even if we do commit sin.

 

As Paul also points out when we do those things that we don' want to do, it is no longer I who does it, but the sin still in my flesh. Romans 7:17 and if you back up to verse 16 he says that just by not wanting to do those things we do, we consent to the law that it is good, at that point when we do those things we don' want to do it is not us who does it, but SIN still in our flesh. And he says it again in verse 20.

 

So technically we are righteous but still sin, but SIN is not imputed when there is no law. For those mixing law and Grace covenants, I'd be very careful, keep in mind what He says about mixing new wine into old wineskins or mixing cold and hot getting lukewarm. You'll end up with nothing.

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