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Poll Question: Millennialism

Poll Question: Millennialism  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. Poll Question: Millennialism

    • Amillennialism
    • Postmillennialism
    • Historical Premillennialism
    • Dispensational Premillennialism


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Which view do you hold?

 

 

 

 

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How doe any view effect personal evangelism, and or missions? Is the view you have the same as the church or denomination? How seriously have you studdied the four views? I am just wondering, this is NOT part of the poll, juts my wondering. Blessings, and those who answer can come by my house for a nice dinner. LOL

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Amillenlialism.

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I'd like to attempt to answer some of these questions if I may

 

How doe any view effect personal evangelism, and or missions?

 

Not always easy to quantify but here are a couple of examples I'm aware of

 

1) I knew a Post-millennial who believed Jesus would only return after all of the people groups of the world had been reached with the gospel. That belief really gave him a certain drive to support missions which is very commendable, however sadly he wasn't so interested in seeing them saved, merely reached.

 

2) It is possible that dispensational might effect one efforts and focus on evangelism as well

 

However that being said it is my believe that eschatology drives evangelism, that is what Paul is getting at in 2 Cor 5:11 "Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences."

 

 

Is the view you have the same as the church or denomination?

 

As a confessional baptist I believe the BCoF excludes all views except Amill/post mill so I line up with my confessional standards.

 

I don't understand for example how anyone who isn't dispensational can sit under a dispenstaional ministry (especially if said person is reformed) the hermeneutic employed is so different that whilst many of the biblical conclusions are reached are thankfully the same, the way of getting their is entirely alien.

 

How seriously have you studdied the four views?

 

Very well - for example - I have folk from a dispensation background in my fellowship and we have talked long and hard about these matters. the one I am perhaps least familiar with is post-millenialism. One thing to bear in mind those is that these are broad terms that cover a multitude of variations, for example the dispensationalism of MacArthur is very different to that of Lindsey. My own personal amillenialims is a historic recapitulation view.

 

I am just wondering, this is NOT part of the poll, juts my wondering.

 

Happy to answer, hope they help :RpS_thumbsup:

 

Blessings, and those who answer can come by my house for a nice dinner. LOL

 

Very kind of you - it's probably a long way to travel though :RpS_laugh:

 

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ. Satan is bound in the Abyss for that length of time and then released -- then there is the final confrontation between satan and God's people. But fire comes down from heaven and devours the enemy. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already Are.

 

Zechariah 14:4 has Christ coming in person and standing on the Mt. of Olives , east of Jerusalem. vs 9 says that "The Lord will be king over the whole earth."

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ. Satan is bound in the Abyss for that length of time and then released -- then there is the final confrontation between satan and God's people. But fire comes down from heaven and devours the enemy. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already Are.

 

Zechariah 14:4 has Christ coming in person and standing on the Mt. of Olives , east of Jerusalem. vs 9 says that "The Lord will be king over the whole earth."

Ezekiel 40-48 gives even more details about what life will be like during the Millennurm.

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What is the difference between historical premillenialism and dispensational premilleniumism?

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

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What is the difference between historical premillenialism and dispensational premilleniumism?

 

oww...where to start :RpS_cool:

 

This might help:

http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm

 

Basically, apart of the word 'premillenial' they have very little in common.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

Taking a poll is inviting discussion, isn't it?

 

Since there are those who don't believe in a 'literal' 1,000 yrs. -- as in "a thousand years are as a day and a day is as a thousand years' -- it Might be important to specify 'literal'.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

Yes it is.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

I would say the vast majority of Christians today and historically don't believe in literal future millennium - but that is by the by - my point still stands - Rev 20 does 'say' that the 1000 years is 'literal' that is how you read/ understand it.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

By what criteria do you say that the 'vast majority of Christians today and historically' - Don't believe in a literal future millennium. I have an NIV study Bible in English "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key o the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss and locked and sealed it over him to keep him from deceiving he nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time."

 

Is That as literal as, say, Noah's flood? The various numbers of years stated? Is That literal? I believe it's as literal as the 1,000 yrs. And as literal as Jesus Christ being in the grave and rising on the 3rd day.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

@Sue D. Psalm 50:10 "For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."

 

Sue, who owns the cattle on 1001 hills?

 

Further question Sue, if Satan is not bound now how is it that all you need do is resist him? Is his power over you and the nations limited by the Lord and Savior of the world? That is, unless you do not believe Christ is actually ascended to the right hand of God and reigns now?

 

And to clarify, Amillinnialist do not reject 1000 years, but they simply accept the symbolic representation of the number which is a time of completion.

 

By what criteria do you say that the 'vast majority of Christians today and historically' - Don't believe in a literal future millennium.

 

Don't know exactly what you mean, but dispensationalism is centered or epicentered in the West. Amil is arguably the largest historical eschatological camp worldwide. The author of the Eschatological chart which RB supplied says, "It would be my educated guess that about two-thirds of the Christian family espouse an amillennial eschatology."

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What is the difference between historical premillenialism and dispensational premilleniumism?

 

oww...where to start :RpS_cool:

 

This might help:

http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm

 

Basically, apart of the word 'premillenial' they have very little in common.

I was just reading the link -- the chart. Very helpful. My understanding of amilleniulism is that apparently we're living in that Now? That satan is actually bound Now? And that Jesus Christ is Now reigning? That which is described in Scripture about the 1,000 hr reign of Christ. That is Not how this present world Is - presently. Far from it. There is no peacefulness in this world. Jesus Christ is Not reigning in Jerusalem now.

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

Sue D, you still haven't shown me where we can read the words in Rev 20 'a literal 1000 years' - I have shown you that they are not there. I know you believe that is what the text 'means' but it is not what the text 'says' it says 'a thousand years' three times, and 'the thousand years' three times - and I'm not sure what having an NIV study has to do with it?

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What is the difference between historical premillenialism and dispensational premilleniumism?

 

oww...where to start :RpS_cool:

 

This might help:

http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm

 

Basically, apart of the word 'premillenial' they have very little in common.

Sue D. Is it really the case that we are not seeing Satan bound today, and Jesus reigning, or is it that we are not seeing what you expect those things to look like?

 

I'm interested in what scripture has to say about when the binding of Satan took place, and what the bible has to say about the reign of the saints and the rebellion of the wicked - I'm also very interested in what the Bible has to say about there being two ages (this present age and the eternal age that is to come) which is why I have written this long post on those subjects and others:

https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/apologetics-and-theology/dispensationalism/65422-why-i-don-t-accept-that-rev-20-refers-to-a-future-literal-millennium

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ. Satan is bound in the Abyss for that length of time and then released -- then there is the final confrontation between satan and God's people. But fire comes down from heaven and devours the enemy. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already Are.

 

Zechariah 14:4 has Christ coming in person and standing on the Mt. of Olives , east of Jerusalem. vs 9 says that "The Lord will be king over the whole earth."

Including all those animal sacrifices (sin offerings) - 40:39;m 43:19; 21; 22; 25; 44:27; 29; 45:17; 22; 23; 25: 46:20 - don't you find it strange that in the millennial temple where Christ is reigning having made the one offering for sin and having sat down at the right hand of the Father that people are still offering animal sacrifices to 'atone' for their sin? Remember if this is a liberal temple in the millenial kingdom, those must be literal sin offerings as well :D

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Book of Revelation states in chapter 20 that there Will be a literal 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ.

 

This is just a poll, and not a discussion, but can I just point out that I have never read any translation of Rev 20 that contains the word 'literal' - You might understand it to be a 'literal 1000 years' (which for the purpose of the poll is fine - but the pedant in me pushes to me to point out what literally is written:

 

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

Revelation 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

 

By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

@7.6 please read 7. 4 the part in quotes -- I was sharing the Bible I'm using just in case the one you are using has different wording. I was using the phrase "a literal 1,000 yrs." because there are those who don't believe it Is a literal period of time.

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By mu count that is:

 

3 x we have 'a thousand years

3 x we have 'the thousand years'

 

we don't have 'a literal thousand years' though.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic :RpS_thumbsup:

If these aren't literal years, what kind are they?

 

@Sue D. Psalm 50:10 "For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."

 

Sue, who owns the cattle on 1001 hills?

 

Further question Sue, if Satan is not bound now how is it that all you need do is resist him? Is his power over you and the nations limited by the Lord and Savior of the world? That is, unless you do not believe Christ is actually ascended to the right hand of God and reigns now?

 

And to clarify, Amillinnialist do not reject 1000 years, but they simply accept the symbolic representation of the number which is a time of completion.

We know that the reference to the cattle a thousand years is symbolic because there are more than a thousand hills. Our only source of information on how long the Millennium will last is the Bible and it clearly says it will last a thousand years.

 

We can resist Satan because ouf our relationship with Christ. If Satan were bound there would be no need for us to resist him. The nations are still deceieved by him so we can't be in the Millennium yet.

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If these aren't literal years, what kind are they?

 

A long period of time - see my reasoning here:

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/apologetics-and-theology/dispensationalism/65422-why-i-don-t-accept-that-rev-20-refers-to-a-future-literal-millennium

 

We know that the reference to the cattle a thousand years is symbolic because there are more than a thousand hills. Our only source of information on how long the Millennium will last is the Bible and it clearly says it will last a thousand years.

 

Your right, the Bible is our only source of information - so let me ask you this about the Book of Revelation

 

1) Doers it contain to help understand or does it expect us to figure out on it's own? I believe the close language employed in Ch 1 (close to Daniel 2) and that vision, not mention repeated references to being in the Spirit all suggest that Revelation is a book of pictures.

 

Let me ask you a question relevant to rev 20 - is Satan a physical being or a spiritual one?

 

What are the implications for those chains if he is a spiritual being (can they be 'literal' chains)?

 

We can resist Satan because ouf our relationship with Christ. If Satan were bound there would be no need for us to resist him. The nations are still deceieved by him so we can't be in the Millennium yet.

 

Can you establish that is what the binding of Satan means though?

 

I would suggest the binding of Satan is seen in something very different to that - we see when Satan is loosed that his forces oppress the church turning into a enclave of God's people, in much the same way as Israel was surrounded by enemies - that is not actually the case today!

 

I notice also you have responded to comment on Ezek 40-48 :RpS_thumbsup:

 

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If these aren't literal years, what kind are they?

 

A long period of time - see my reasoning here:

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/apologetics-and-theology/dispensationalism/65422-why-i-don-t-accept-that-rev-20-refers-to-a-future-literal-millennium

 

We know that the reference to the cattle a thousand years is symbolic because there are more than a thousand hills. Our only source of information on how long the Millennium will last is the Bible and it clearly says it will last a thousand years.

 

Your right, the Bible is our only source of information - so let me ask you this about the Book of Revelation

 

1) Doers it contain to help understand or does it expect us to figure out on it's own? I believe the close language employed in Ch 1 (close to Daniel 2) and that vision, not mention repeated references to being in the Spirit all suggest that Revelation is a book of pictures.

 

Let me ask you a question relevant to rev 20 - is Satan a physical being or a spiritual one?

 

What are the implications for those chains if he is a spiritual being (can they be 'literal' chains)?

 

We can resist Satan because ouf our relationship with Christ. If Satan were bound there would be no need for us to resist him. The nations are still deceieved by him so we can't be in the Millennium yet.

 

Can you establish that is what the binding of Satan means though?

 

I would suggest the binding of Satan is seen in something very different to that - we see when Satan is loosed that his forces oppress the church turning into a enclave of God's people, in much the same way as Israel was surrounded by enemies - that is not actually the case today!

 

I notice also you have responded to comment on Ezek 40-48 :RpS_thumbsup:

1,000 years IS a Long period of time.

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William -- I'm not being allowed to post in the Comment section. :(

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William -- I'm not being allowed to post in the Comment section. :(

Never mind -- now I Am able to. :)

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