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Why did God allow sin at all?

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Read Genesis what did God say after he created the Earth, animals, and Adam and Eve?

He said “it was all very good”. So God is saying it’s very good. That means it was perfect. When God says something is good, it’s good. When he says VERY good, that’s perfect.

 

Why is it that in the afterlife "perfect" means the inability to sin, but in A&Es case it does not? That's my point.

 

 

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You don’t have the freedom of choice? Ok.

 

1. You can close out of this app.

2. You can leave this app open.

3. You can respond to this after reading this.

4. You can NOT respond to this.

5. You can read this again.

6. You can NOT read it again.

 

Conclusion: you and me have freedom of choice.

 

You sir are not free to do as you wish, and that's easliy proven.

 

 

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Why is it that in the afterlife "perfect" means the inability to sin, but in A&Es case it does not? That's my point.

 

 

 

Because in This life -- satan and the demonic world are still free to roam around causing problems.

 

Revelation 20 says that satan, the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fie and brimestone forever and ever. Believers will have a glorified body just like Jesus Christ has.

 

The 'afterlife' is eternity. Salvation will be a completed thing. Believers are now still mixed up with non-believers. We are left here to share the Gospel unto salvation with them in hopes that they , too, will accept salvation.

 

The blood of Christ will have taken care of all sinfulness. And , as already commented , satan and the demonic world will not be able to mess with mankind anymore.

 

A & E were not sinless people after they touched / ate the fruit of that one tree. God provided the cross.

 

That's just the way it is. God's way.

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Because in This life -- satan and the demonic world are still free to roam around causing problems.

 

Revelation 20 says that satan, the beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fie and brimestone forever and ever. Believers will have a glorified body just like Jesus Christ has.

 

The 'afterlife' is eternity. Salvation will be a completed thing. Believers are now still mixed up with non-believers. We are left here to share the Gospel unto salvation with them in hopes that they , too, will accept salvation.

 

The blood of Christ will have taken care of all sinfulness. And , as already commented , satan and the demonic world will not be able to mess with mankind anymore.

 

A & E were not sinless people after they touched / ate the fruit of that one tree. God provided the cross.

 

That's just the way it is. God's way.

 

That doesn't answer my question. Not in the least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That doesn't answer my question. Not in the least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then I don't know how to answer your question. Seems that you're wanting to erase human history of the results of sin. God created Adam and then Eve in His perfect environment. There was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You're wanting to know Why God put that tree in the Garden and then told them to Not touch or eat of it. Sounds like you're really blaming God for helping us sin and then punishing us for it. Do We want to be boss or willing to let God be boss. We tend to want it Both ways.

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Then I don't know how to answer your question. Seems that you're wanting to erase human history of the results of sin. God created Adam and then Eve in His perfect environment. There was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You're wanting to know Why God put that tree in the Garden and then told them to Not touch or eat of it. Sounds like you're really blaming God for helping us sin and then punishing us for it. Do We want to be boss or willing to let God be boss. We tend to want it Both ways.

 

Not sure how I can help you understnd the contridiction in your posts, but I'll try once more.

 

You say that if there were no choice (to sin or not) that there would be no true love, and we would be robots. But. . . you also say that "in Heaven" we won't have that choice because Heaven will be "perfect". Yet, Adam and Eve were also, "perfect", so - my question is: HOW DID THEY SIN? How did the perfect beings sin, but pefect beings "in Heaven" won't sin.

 

You are making statements that are inconsistant.

 

 

 

 

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Adam and Eve sinned by listening to the serpents interpretation of God's Word -- Did God Really say... ? what God Really meant was He didn't want you to eat from that particular tree because when you Do, your eyes will be open and you'll be like God -- knowing both good and evil. So --Eve considered what satan / serpent was saying and the thought of having all wisdom like God was appealing so she took the fruit In spite of God's telling her not to and what the consequences would be.

 

In short -- she didn't trust that God knew what was best for her. And Adam followed her lead.

 

God Does have all knowledge // omniscience. He already knew what mankind would be capable of doing. He wanted to save Eve / mankind the knowledge of evil.

 

We have God's Word today -- do we listen to it? Or do we listen to satan's interpretation Of God's Word.

 

They did not trust God's Word to be the best.

 

In heaven -- Lucifer was not content with the 'station' God had created Him in. Lucifer 'wanted it all'. He became the serpent / satan and encourages 'us' to 'want it all' -- to not be satisfied with God's Best for us.

 

Does that make more sense to you? As to how they sinned?

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Adam and Eve sinned by listening to the serpents interpretation of God's Word -- Did God Really say... ? what God Really meant was He didn't want you to eat from that particular tree because when you Do, your eyes will be open and you'll be like God -- knowing both good and evil. So --Eve considered what satan / serpent was saying and the thought of having all wisdom like God was appealing so she took the fruit In spite of God's telling her not to and what the consequences would be.

 

In short -- she didn't trust that God knew what was best for her. And Adam followed her lead.

 

God Does have all knowledge // omniscience. He already knew what mankind would be capable of doing. He wanted to save Eve / mankind the knowledge of evil.

 

We have God's Word today -- do we listen to it? Or do we listen to satan's interpretation Of God's Word.

 

They did not trust God's Word to be the best.

 

In heaven -- Lucifer was not content with the 'station' God had created Him in. Lucifer 'wanted it all'. He became the serpent / satan and encourages 'us' to 'want it all' -- to not be satisfied with God's Best for us.

 

Does that make more sense to you? As to how they sinned?

 

Nevermind.

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Then how does a person go from a head knowledge of God to heart acceptance and verbally responding in order to be saved. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. A dead man can't hear anything. Yes, a person is dead spiritually and when we pray to God and ask forgiveness He hears our prayers and answers them.

 

 

 

Rereading my comment -- my question was rhetorical in nature -- how does a person go from head knowledge to heart acceptance. I know how it happens cause it was my experience.

 

Lots of people have read their Bible and have a lot of knowledge as a result. But at some point -- the Holy Spirit has convicted the person of their need. That's what the Holy Spirit was doing with me for a while. I knew what my need was but was resisting it. I'd been under the impression that a person needed to 'go forward' at the end of the service and talk with the pastor to 'get saved'. I was scared to walk the aisle. I was afraid that by the time I got down to the lower-level aisle that church would be over and I wouldn't have a chance to talk with the pastor. I never really talked to anyone about it. We had good S. S. teachers and summer camp counselors. But one Sunday evening, pastor assured the congregation that walking down an aisle wasn't going to save anyone. That we could talk to God anytime, anywhere and accept Him as personal Savior. And that's what I did. And Then I had real inner peace. Haven't questioned my salvation after that.

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Nevermind.

 

 

 

Nevermind? Apparently I'm not answering your question.

 

"How did they sin" -- what response are you looking For? Apparently you don't consider that as sinning? What is your definition of sin?

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Why did God allow sin?

 

I always thought the question was "Why did people allow sin?"

 

But perhaps someone would like to answer the question so often put out by the ignorant and rebellious, "If God knew the future, why did he go ahead and create...?"

 

It is not possible to appreciate the full answer to this, but by contemplating this subject we can only begin to see the beautiful character of God.

I have never heard or read the answer and it is too difficult for me to write without your feedback.

 

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God is glorified any time where the perfection of his being and character is manifested, and in the judgement of sin and the judgement over evil, and even in the existence of hell the perfection of God’s holiness is glorified. We have the tendency to think that only His love and mercy redound to His glory but His justice demands the wrath of God. We, as sinful people, don’t see the glory in the wrath of God; but God’s wrath expresses the perfection of His righteousness. A holy God who did not inflict pain on a sinful creature and creation would not be good. Isaiah 53:10 states “it pleased the Lord to bruise Him”. Now in what sense did God take pleasure in laying the inequity of us all upon His beloved Son? In the sense that God was redeeming evil in this drama on the cross. He didn’t take any pleasure in the pain of His suffering but it was the why of it that would make Him pleased to bruise His own Son and make His own Son to be pleased to be bruised by Him. We have difficultly seeing how God is glorified in this way. It is easy to see how He is glorified in mercy and love and grace. But grace doesn’t seem to be grace and love does seem to be love until you see it in the background of the perfection of His righteousness. This is why Edwards said the God is as glorified by the punishment of the sinner in hell as He by the salvation of the sinner in heaven. Both grace and justice glorify God.

 

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Why did God allow sin?

 

I always thought the question was "Why did people allow sin?"

 

But perhaps someone would like to answer the question so often put out by the ignorant and rebellious, "If God knew the future, why did he go ahead and create...?"

 

It is not possible to appreciate the full answer to this, but by contemplating this subject we can only begin to see the beautiful character of God.

I have never heard or read the answer and it is too difficult for me to write without your feedback.

It's more the fact that God did know what would happen with Adam and Eve -- they would follow the temptation that satan presented to them. And God Also provided the way to bridge the gap between us and God. He provided the cross -- in Adam and Eve's immediate world -- he replaced the fig leaves they found to hide their nakedness -- with animal skins. In order to get those skins, an animal's life was sacrificed. So -- God provided the blood that was shed so their sins / body could be covered. That was the first animal sacrifice in the Old Testament. The high priest had to repeat that yearly offering for the sins of the people. In the New Testament Jesus Christ became the Perfect Lamb of God. No more sacrifices needed.

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Why did God allow sin?

 

I always thought the question was "Why did people allow sin?"

 

But perhaps someone would like to answer the question so often put out by the ignorant and rebellious, "If God knew the future, why did he go ahead and create...?"

 

It is not possible to appreciate the full answer to this, but by contemplating this subject we can only begin to see the beautiful character of God.

I have never heard or read the answer and it is too difficult for me to write without your feedback.

@Ff O -- very well stated.

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God is glorified any time where the perfection of his being and character is manifested, and in the judgement of sin and the judgement over evil, and even in the existence of hell the perfection of God’s holiness is glorified. ... Both grace and justice glorify God.

 

This reminds me of Romans 3, where Paul was aiming to level the proud Jew and the presumptuous Gentile to be under the same law, but I don't see that has anything to do with God being 'glorified' by the whole disaster of sin, let alone its punishment. Paul admits to speaking humanly on these issues.

 

The basic state of the sinner, proves that God is good and that the law is good, however sinners also need help, and this is where God is glorified as selfless (righteous). There is no glory to God from the destruction of sinners, it is just a pathetic outcome which is foreign to him, to say the least.

 

I don't think there is any glory to God from sin or its end, rather it is a loss, which he has always been aware of.

It basically means that love is vulnerable, that God has total vulnerability.

 

And as far as justice and mercy is concerned, these are one in God, so that there is neither, but love. So the whole scenario of sin, has torn God, but at the same time God had it in him, whereby that rift would be permanently healed, without deserting those who caused it.

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God is glorified any time where the perfection of his being and character is manifested, and in the judgement of sin and the judgement over evil, and even in the existence of hell the perfection of God’s holiness is glorified. ... Both grace and justice glorify God.

 

This reminds me of Romans 3, where Paul was aiming to level the proud Jew and the presumptuous Gentile to be under the same law, but I don't see that has anything to do with God being 'glorified' by the whole disaster of sin, let alone its punishment. Paul admits to speaking humanly on these issues.

 

The basic state of the sinner, proves that God is good and that the law is good, however sinners also need help, and this is where God is glorified as selfless (righteous). There is no glory to God from the destruction of sinners, it is just a pathetic outcome which is foreign to him, to say the least.

 

I don't think there is any glory to God from sin or its end, rather it is a loss, which he has always been aware of.

It basically means that love is vulnerable, that God has total vulnerability.

 

And as far as justice and mercy is concerned, these are one in God, so that there is neither, but love. So the whole scenario of sin, has torn God, but at the same time God had it in him, whereby that rift would be permanently healed, without deserting those who caused it.

But we're not under the law. The law was to show us what sin is. Those 10 Commandments. Breaking just one makes the person guilty of them all. The Law pointed mankind to the need for the cross.

 

Following the Law wasn't going to get anyone anywhere. It was 'good works'. Salvation is Not of works so that no one can boast about anything good he has done in order to earn his own way to heaven.

 

The cross of Christ plus Nothing.

 

The Jews had been under the law -- they were Trying to say that the Gentiles needed to be circumcized -- follow Jewish traditions Plus the cross. That simply wasn't true.

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Just a question. If some angels (way back when) along with Satan rebelled against God, which we call sin, so is it possible sin can still exist in heaven? 

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14 hours ago, Sue D. said:

It's more the fact that God did know what would happen with Adam and Eve -- they would follow the temptation that satan presented to them. And God Also provided the way to bridge the gap between us and God. He provided the cross -- in Adam and Eve's immediate world -- he replaced the fig leaves they found to hide their nakedness -- with animal skins. In order to get those skins, an animal's life was sacrificed. So -- God provided the blood that was shed so their sins / body could be covered. That was the first animal sacrifice in the Old Testament. The high priest had to repeat that yearly offering for the sins of the people. In the New Testament Jesus Christ became the Perfect Lamb of God. No more sacrifices needed.

God did not create sin, Adam and Eve made the choice to disobey the Father and thus that willful disobedience God calls "sin". 

 

If God made Adam and Eve so they could not make choices they would have been robots.  However God has given us the ability to obey or rebell against Him. My understanding of Scripture is, God foreknew what Adam and Eve would do, but did not preordain for them to sin. 

 Colossians is a great Book that explains that gives a fuller details on  Jesus and His involvement in the Trinity and creation/

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16 hours ago, Just Mike said:

Just a question. If some angels (way back when) along with Satan rebelled against God, which we call sin, so is it possible sin can still exist in heaven? 

 

That's a good question. 

 

Answering from my Calvinist perspective I would answer 'no' and the logical flow of that argument is as follows

 

1) In eternity past God decreed that he would have a people for himself

2) Within that decree he planed out exactly how that would be achieved

3) That plan included the creation of the world, and the fall of mankind, and the means of salvation

4) The fall of mankind was brought about by the sin of Satan as God decreed

5) As God decree to have this people in fulfilled in his creation of the New heavens and the new earth there will be no second fall

 

That is the logical flow of the argument - from a biblical argument maybe it is enough to simply note that in the Book of Revelation to picture of the new heavens and the new earth contains the tree of life - but we read anywhere of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 12:09 PM, Sue D. said:

It's more the fact that God did know what would happen with Adam and Eve -- they would follow the temptation that satan presented to them. And God Also provided the way to bridge the gap between us and God. He provided the cross -- in Adam and Eve's immediate world -- he replaced the fig leaves they found to hide their nakedness -- with animal skins. In order to get those skins, an animal's life was sacrificed. So -- God provided the blood that was shed so their sins / body could be covered. That was the first animal sacrifice in the Old Testament. The high priest had to repeat that yearly offering for the sins of the people. In the New Testament Jesus Christ became the Perfect Lamb of God. No more sacrifices needed.

So God knew, but why go ahead with it?

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17 hours ago, Just Mike said:

...If some angels (way back when) along with Satan rebelled against God, which we call sin, so is it possible sin can still exist in heaven? 

Yes sin existed in heaven for a long time during the build up of the angelic rebellion, and many centuries later we find Satan turning up in heaven as the self appointed delegate of this world.

But they were cast out, otherwise the bad apple would contaminate the good ones.

Since the time of Christ, Satan is no longer allowed in heaven, our representative Jesus has earned that right as a man. It was never Satan's right to represent us, and as it truned out he showed that he hated mankind by his complaints about the patriarch Job.

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13 hours ago, Pillar said:

Yes sin existed in heaven for a long time during the build up of the angelic rebellion, and many centuries later we find Satan turning up in heaven as the self appointed delegate of this world.

But they were cast out, otherwise the bad apple would contaminate the good ones.

Since the time of Christ, Satan is no longer allowed in heaven, our representative Jesus has earned that right as a man. It was never Satan's right to represent us, and as it truned out he showed that he hated mankind by his complaints about the patriarch Job.

 

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Pillar -- where do you find - in Scripture -- that 'many centuries later' Satan? turning up in heaven as the self-appointed delegate of this world. 

 

We Are told that the rebellious angels were thrown out of heaven to end up on the earth.   There was a war in heaven and Michael, the arch angel  threw them out.  

 

Since the time of Christ?  meaning His birth in the Gospels?  You mentioned the patriarch Job -- speaking Of -- ch 1:6 - 7.  Back then the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.   The Lord was asking him where he came from and satan responded "From roaming through the earth and goiong back and forth in it."   And that says that satan -- who had been Lucifer while still In heaven -- had freedom to go back and forth from heaven to earth. 

 

How about the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (second person of the trinity),  that Jesus Christ was here on earth, born of a virgin and was God in the flesh.   He came to show mankind to His Father in heaven -- died on the cross for our sins , was buried and rose again bodily and after 40 days, ascended back up to heaven to be at the right hand of God the Father. 

 

Satan was sure that Job would turn against God if he lost everything here on earth.  So satan was allowed to take everything from him  but did Not turn against God.  And in the end , Job gained back and Then some.  

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8 hours ago, Sue D. said:

Pillar -- where do you find - in Scripture -- that 'many centuries later' Satan? turning up in heaven as the self-appointed delegate of this world. 

You answered the question beautifully.

I think Job lived around the time of Abraham, which was many centuries after the fall of Satan, which I think was just before the creation of this earth.

Satan is an opportunist, and felt that he had a big enough case against God to be allowed in, which of course was otherwise impossible. 

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12 hours ago, Pillar said:

You answered the question beautifully.

I think Job lived around the time of Abraham, which was many centuries after the fall of Satan, which I think was just before the creation of this earth.

Satan is an opportunist, and felt that he had a big enough case against God to be allowed in, which of course was otherwise impossible. 

Pillar -- I don't think we have any real 'dates' for any of these activities.  What we Do know about creation is that God's Word says it took place in 6 days.  The fall of Lucifer to the earth and becoming satan was at Some point -- we are told about events taking place and  'in the process of time'  or with similar phrasing.  In book of Matthew chapter 1 we have the genealogy of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham.  And then vs 17 "Thus there were 14 generations in all from Abraham to David, 14 from David to the exile to Babylon and 14 from the exile to the Christ."  But that doesn't include Before Abraham.  And Before the flood, people lived hundreds of years and had Lots of children during those hundreds of years.  After the flood, life started over again.  And the length Of a 'generation' is approximate.  So a young earth would be approximately 6 - 10,000 yrs. and Older age is measured in billions of years (that gives evolution plenty of time to work).  

 

We have an approximate time for Job but not especially Abraham.   In Genesis 11 we have vs 10 "Two yeas after the flood, when Shem was 100 yrs old , he became the father of Arphaxad.  Many generations later Terah become the father of Abram --  during some time, Abram married Sarai and at some point later on in chapter 12 God calls Abram to leave his country......"  So - we Don't really have any specific times to relate to. 

 

I don't get what you mean by satan being an opportunist.  'to be allowed in'?  because he had a big enough case against God?  Satan didn't have Any 'case' against God.  Except in satan's eyes.  Satan was full of Pride and then that led to his eternal downfall / his future home being In the lake of fire and brimstone. 

 

Lucifer's problem was that he wasn't satisfied with being 2nd to God.  He wanted to Be God.  His goal ever since has been to destroy everything that God sets up.  Satan has allowed evolutionary thought to creep in to the educational system.  He blinds the eyes of people to homosexuality. He's Trying to destroy the sacredness of Godly marriage.   False Gospels are all over the place.  People mock / ignore God's Word to all of us.  Even Godly people try to rationalize Biblical morality/ ethics. 

 

I've been doing some 'rambling' -- need to get this Posted.  

 

 

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