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ConfessionalLutheran

Murder in Las Vegas

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I suppose everybody by now knows what happened. Stephen Paddock got an arsenal of weaponry together and opened fire on a crowd peaceably assembled for a country music festival. 58 people are dead and 500 injured as a result. I would suggest that we pray for the families of everybody involved. Here are some links to the story: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooter/index.html, http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/las-vegas-shooting-attack-kills-at-least-58-more-than-500-people-injured/ar-AAsM6kd?OCID=ansmsnnews11, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41466116, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/02/us/mandalay-bay-vegas-shooting.html. We truly live in a fallen world.

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Other than your meme on Facebook this is actually the first I read of it.

 

Thanks for the source, at least I now know what the commotion is all about.

 

God bless,

William

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Other than your meme on Facebook this is actually the first I read of it.

 

Thanks for the source, at least I know now what the commotion is all about.

 

God bless,

William

 

You're welcome, William. I do regret letting my emotion extend to the meme, but only because it upset a dear friend of mine. I stand by what I said, though. Only somebody who was held by Satan in a tight grip could do what that guy did. He killed himself and saved taxpayers a lot of money and years in incarceration. I don't condone what he did to the others and I grieve that he killed himself, but only somebody possessed could do something like that.

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You're welcome, William. I do regret letting my emotion extend to the meme, but only because it upset a dear friend of mine. I stand by what I said, though. Only somebody who was held by Satan in a tight grip could do what that guy did. He killed himself and saved taxpayers a lot of money and years in incarceration. I don't condone what he did to the others and I grieve that he killed himself, but only somebody possessed could do something like that.

 

Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, that is, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

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Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

 

An excellent analogy. Thank you for that food for thought ( of course I believe in predestination, by the way! :) ).

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Were the authorities ever able to locate the person (people?) who went around the concert telling (yelling?) that people were going to die before the massacre began?

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Conservative publications are going to town on memes today:

 

22089112_1176523929148309_1923747947652620761_n.jpg.c72c1ebdb6045d3a478f2d209e6db4ae.jpg

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Conservative publications are going to town on memes today:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"472","width":"720","data-attachmentid":51406}[/ATTACH]

 

Amen and amen. They did their duty. What do so many of these overpaid athletes actually do other than deliver an arguably decent show on the football field? Take the knee during the anthem? Offend the people who are pouring money into their League? At least the police are useful to society.

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This act is terrible and horrifying. Another case for gun law. Still if you have millions you get anything you want

 

While I was watching the news coverage I could not help wondering when I saw all the people before the shooting holding up cell phone lights singing God bless America in the city dubbed as sin city.

 

 

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Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, that is, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

 

Well thought out.

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Were the authorities ever able to locate the person (people?) who went around the concert telling (yelling?) that people were going to die before the massacre began?

 

I don't think so.

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As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish

 

I have never heard the term double predestination before. How does God passing over the majority of his creation or the majority of the people that ever lived. How does that work with 2 Peter 3:9

 

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

If God is not wanting any to parish, but that all come to repentance. Why would he pass over anyone

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I have never heard the term double predestination before. How does God passing over the majority of his creation or the majority of the people that ever lived. How does that work with 2 Peter 3:9

 

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

If God is not wanting any to parish, but that all come to repentance. Why would he pass over anyone

  • 2 Peter 3:8-9 8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, might be called the Arminian pillar texts concerning the universal saving will of God.

 

We must distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what He actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will. The "beloved" and "you" in 2 Peter 3:9 ("the Lord is longsuffering toward you, not wishing any to perish") refers not to every person in the world but to "you" the Elect.

 

Try reading: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ng-2-peter-3-9

 

God bless,

William

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