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Acadia

"Our Lady of Fatima" - A Biblical Perspective

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I posted this a week or so on another Christian forum, but it was removed. I truly hope that this will not be the case here, as I am not intending to "flame" or "goad" anyone. This thread is intended only to be a Biblical examination of some of the main points of what took place 100 years ago in Fatima, Portugal.

 

This particular subject has been of interest to me ever since I read a book on "Our Lady of Fatima" several years ago. The book was with my Grandmother's things, which my mother had brought home after my Grandmother passed away. My maternal Grandparents were Catholic all their lives, and this book likely either belonged to them or perhaps to their oldest daughter, who was a nun for about 15 years.

 

Anyway, at the time I read the book, I actually did not have any concerns whatsoever. I remember thinking that this "Marian apparition" and the events surrounding it were strange, but I did not necessarily have any real objections to what I was reading. As I've continued to study and seek Biblical discernment, however, that has changed. So, here's a bit of a summary/some concerns I now have regarding "Our Lady of Fatima."

 

100 years ago, in 1917, "Our Lady" appeared to three shepherd children in Fatima, Portugal. She continued to appear on the 13th day of each month for six consecutive months. Here are some of the things "Mary" said during her appearances:

 

Our Lady: "Yes, I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer. Jesus wishes to make use of you to make Me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. To whoever embraces this devotion I promise salvation; these souls shall be dear to God, as flowers placed by Me to adorn His throne."

 

Our Lady: "No, My daughter. Do you suffer a great deal? Don't lose heart. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God."

 

Our Lady: "I want you to come here on the 13th of next month, to continue reciting the Rosary every day in honor of Our Lady of the Rosary, in order to obtain peace in the world and the end of the war, because only She can help you."

 

Our Lady: "Continue to come here every month. In October, I will say who I am and what I want, and I will perform a miracle so that all might see in order to believe."

 

Our Lady: "Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say often to Jesus, especially whenever you make a sacrifice: O Jesus, it is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary."

 

Our Lady:"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart."

 

Our Lady: "To whomever embraces this devotion, I promise salvation."

 

Throughout the years, Lucia, one of the three children to whom "Our Lady" appeared at Fatima in 1917, experienced several more such visitations. On December 10, 1925 "Our Lady" appeared with the "Child Jesus." Here is what "Jesus" said:

 

The Child Jesus: "Have compassion on the Heart of your Most Holy Mother, covered with thorns, with which ungrateful men pierce It at every moment, and there is no one to make an act of Reparation to remove them."

 

And here is what "the Most Holy Virgin" said:

 

"Look My daughter, at My Heart, surrounded with thorns with which ungrateful men pierce Me at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude. You at least try to console Me and announce in My name that I promise to assist at the moment of death, with all the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep Me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making Reparation to Me."

 

Since we are warned in Scripture, by Jesus Himself, of great last days deception, that could, if possible, deceive even the "elect", it is very important that we "test" this apparition. Over the last 100 years countless people have been influenced by this appearance of "Our Lady", and have made pilgrimages to Fatima in her honour. This event from 1917 has had no small impact on the lives of thousands, and so it is not something that can simply be dismissed.

 

Here are some specific concerns I have with regard to this "Marian apparition":

 

"Mary" told the children: "Jesus wishes to make use of you to make Me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. To whoever embraces this devotion I promise salvation; these souls shall be dear to God, as flowers placed by Me to adorn His throne."

 

So, according to "Mary", "Jesus" wants to "establish in the world devotion" to Mary's "Immaculate Heart". The question immediately is, does Jesus (God) actually desire or request that devotion be made to anyone but Him? (All concerns regarding the truth of the "Immaculate Heart" of Mary aside). Does God ever desire or ask that we devote ourselves to anyone or anything other than Him, as the one true God? The Bible is very clear on this point, here are just some of the many examples from Scripture:

 

Exodus 20:1-6, Deuteronomy 4:35-39, Deuteronomy 5:6-10, Deuteronomy 6:4, Deuteronomy 32:39, 2 Samuel 7:22, 1 Kings 8:60, 2 Kings 5:15, 2 Kings 19:15, 1 Chronicles 17:20, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalm 18:31, Psalm 86:10, Isaiah 37:16. Isaiah 37:20. Isaiah 43:10-11, Isaiah 44:6-8. Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 45:21, Isaiah 46:9, Hosea 13:4. Joel 2:27, Zechariah 14:9, Mark 12:29-34, John 17:3, Romans 3:30, 1 Corinthians 8:4-6, Galatians 3:20, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Timothy 1:17, 1 Timothy 2:5

 

So, given the above verses, should we believe this "apparition" who claims that Jesus wants us to devote ourselves to her (Mary's) "Immaculate Heart"?

 

Of even greater concern to me is the second part of the above statement made by "Mary." She claims that she "promises salvation" to "whoever embraces this devotion" (to her "Immaculate Heart.") The question is, can Mary actually promise salvation to anyone? Is salvation actually found in devoting oneself to Mary's "Immaculate Heart", or is salvation found in God alone, as the Bible repeatedly tells us?

 

John 1:10-13, John 1:29, John 3:14-18, John 3:36, John 8:24, John 5:24, Acts 4:12, Acts 16:31, Romans 1:16, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:8, Romans 6:23, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Ephesians 2:1-22, Galatians 2:16, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 John 1, 1 John 5:11-13, 1 Peter 1:18-19

 

"Mary" also tells the children that her "Immaculate Heart" will be their "refuge", and that she will never forsake them. Does this sound familiar?

 

Psalm 46: "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble." (verse 1)

 

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

Hebrews 13:5 " Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, 'I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.'"

 

Nowhere in Scripture are such things ever said or such attributes ever given to anyone but God. I find it deeply concerning that "Mary" claims for herself characteristics that belong to God alone.

 

"Mary" likewise proclaims that "only she can help you" (This statement really needs no explanation for anyone with the slightest Biblical knowledge.)

 

"Mary" also tells the children to "sacrifice themselves for sinners." (Again, no explanation is needed as to why these words of "Mary" are highly deceptive and misleading. Scripture is clear regarding our inability to even save ourselves, let alone others, and tells us plainly that Christ's all sufficient and one time sacrifice for sin is all that can save anyone.)

 

Now, in regard to the apparent appearance of "Jesus" (as a child) with "Mary", here is a very important and relevant warning, given by Jesus to His disciples:

 

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." - Matthew 24:21-27

 

Jesus will indeed return, as He promised, but it will not be in secret, it will not be mysterious and covert. When Jesus returns, the entire world will witness Him coming back, and there will be absolutely no confusion surrounding this event. Every single person will know that it is Jesus returning.

 

In contrast, there is always much uncertainty and a lengthy verification/authorization process which must be gone through to officially declare apparitions, such as the one at Fatima, to be legitimate.

 

Regarding what "Jesus" said during "His" appearance to Lucy, "He" confirmed devotion/reparation to the "Immaculate Heart" of "Mary", rather than proclaiming devotion to God alone, which the real Jesus would have done. (To say nothing of the unbiblical idea that Jesus is still a child. He is not.) Nor does Scripture ever present Him accompanying Mary (as a child or a grown man) anywhere after His death, burial, resurrection. What we know from Scripture is that Jesus is risen, ascended into Heaven, and seated at the right hand of the Father. (Acts 7:55-56, Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 8:1, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 12:2, 1 Peter 3:22 etc.) When He returns, it will be an event visible, not mysterious, and recognized by all.

 

Something powerful could have indeed happened at Fatima, Portugal in 1917, but just because it was powerful, or even seemed "good" in certain ways, does not mean we should automatically believe that such an "apparition" was of God. This is why Scripture warns us to "test the spirits".

 

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1

 

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15

 

We know, from Scripture, that there are "lying signs and wonders" and that not all "miraculous" events are of God. We are in a spiritual battle. (Ephesians 6:12) We also know that the "coming of the Lawless one" will be with great "signs and wonders" (2 Thessalonians 2) There is a reason why so much of Scripture (in particular, the epistles) are devoted to correcting and warning about error and deception. Here is another such warning written in Acts (Paul speaking):

 

"Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears." - Acts 20:26-31

 

Deception is very real, we must be on guard against it, especially as the time grows shorter and Jesus' return draws nearer.

 

I welcome everyone to share their thoughts on the "Marian Apparition" at Fatima, Portugal. I ask only that anyone who does respond, please take the time to carefully read and address this OP, do not simply dismiss it by writing something to the effect of "Fatima is truly from God because it was so powerful and miraculous", or "Fatima has been authorized and verified by the Vatican, therefore it is truly of God."

 

For example, please discuss how the words said by "Mary" during her appearances are in agreement/not in agreement with Scripture. How can we be sure, considering Scripture, that it was truly Mary that appeared to the children at Fatima? Do you believe that "Mary" claimed for herself attributes and authority that belongs to God alone? Why or why not?

 

Source: Welcome to the Fatima Network

Edited by Acadia
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I posted this a week or so on another Christian forum, but it was removed. I truly hope that this will not be the case here
I can promise you it won't.
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I do not have any input rather than expressing my joy while reading your style of writing and musing over your points Acadia.

 

On another note, I haven't a clue as to why your post would be removed. Though your points on "lying signs and wonders" reminded me of what early Reformers believed about the office of pope. Taking that into account I wouldn't doubt that a lying sign and wonder is meant to lead people under that office.

 

God bless,

William

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I do not have any input rather than expressing my joy while reading your style of writing and musing over your points Acadia.

 

On another note, I haven't a clue as to why your post would be removed. Though your points on "lying signs and wonders" reminded me of what early Reformers believed about the office of pope. Taking that into account I wouldn't doubt that a lying sign and wonder is meant to lead people under that office.

 

God bless,

William

 

Thank you, William, it truly is a blessing to be here.

 

God bless you.

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I do not have any input rather than expressing my joy while reading your style of writing and musing over your points Acadia.

 

On another note, I haven't a clue as to why your post would be removed. Though your points on "lying signs and wonders" reminded me of what early Reformers believed about the office of pope. Taking that into account I wouldn't doubt that a lying sign and wonder is meant to lead people under that office.

 

God bless,

William

 

The office of the papacy is still considered Anti- Christ in some Protestant circles. I wrote elsewhere that the supposed " events" of Fatima were just so much useless conjecture. It takes the focus away from Christ and puts it on Mary, which is blasphemy. That's my personal opinion, anyway. If my thoughts on this whole thing are wanted, then I'll give them to you without reference to the Lutheran Confessions. Acadia makes some very salient points. Satan can pose as an angel of light and deceive many(!). When focus is taken away from Jesus ( who is our One Mediator) and placed on a being purporting to be His mother, then one has to seriously examine what, exactly is going on. Deception is alive and well in the world today and we'd be idiots to believe that every spiritual event that happens must be of God.

Edited by ConfessionalLutheran
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