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CDF47

Do You Believe in Pre-Existence of the Soul?

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There are Christian denominations which believe in the pre-existence of the soul, either as eternal or created at some point of time in heaven prior to human birth. There are some indicators in the Bible of pre-existence; that some or all of the souls of man pre-dated their earthly existence (Jeremiah 1:5 in particular). So, do you believe in pre-existence or that life began with the human birth?

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Jeremiah 1:5 seems to answer the question. Context is essential. Perhaps someone has that?

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Jeremiah 1:5 could simply be in the mind of God, not because his soul pre-existed.

 

Consider the creation of Adam. First he was molded clay, then the breath of life came into him, then he became a living soul. Personally, I think our souls begin their existence at the moment of conception. The woman's egg is the "clay" while the man's sperm contains "the breath of life". When united the soul of the children is the fruit of that union. I also believe this is why Jesus had the virgin birth. The "breath of life" became broken in Adam so the passing of that breath of life through the sperm also passed the sin nature. But since the woman's egg is simply the "soil" of human tissue when the Spirit came upon Mary the "breath of life" was pure and holy for the birth of Christ. Monthly ovulation has no loss of human life since human life is contained in the sperm. If my thinking is right, this adds another reason why male masturbation is wrong: potential human life is discarded.

 

But, this is merely my speculation. I would not defend these thoughts as doctrines. I simply toss them out for food for thought.

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Yeah, the other side of the context is that God knew him because he knows all and knew he was creating a prophet. I just wanted to throw this out there as well as food for thought since the Bible does state for certain, one way or the other.

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Forgive me if I go off topic, but I had a conversation with a brother who believes that there is a multi-verse. Multi-verse is part of String Theory. Because we have the ability to weigh the universe mathematically, 90% of the weight is unaccounted for. String Theory comes from quantum mechanics which shows at the sub atomic level the macro laws of physics do not apply. Since modern science rejects both God and the spirit world, they have come up with the idea of multiple universes. Metaphorically they use a loaf of bread to represent the universe and each version of it is like a slice. This idea is extremely popular in science fiction shows such as Star Trek as well as comic book stories like Flash on TV. For a believer to accept this as true without qualifying that this is just a theory was surprising to me. God and a spiritual dimension to creation could easily be the answer to the mathematical weight of the universe. However, I did concede to the brother that in the mind of God He knows all possible outcomes of every choice that can be made by all people and all people that could be born to make those choices. So, in a multi-verse could exist simply in God's mind, but not necessarily in reality.

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There are many places in the Bible where God says he knew us before we were born; I have never found one which says we knew God. The fact that God knew us shows his omniscience and the fact that he isn't in time as we are; it doesn't prove that we existed before we were born.

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Forgive me if I go off topic, but I had a conversation with a brother who believes that there is a multi-verse. Multi-verse is part of String Theory. Because we have the ability to weigh the universe mathematically, 90% of the weight is unaccounted for. String Theory comes from quantum mechanics which shows at the sub atomic level the macro laws of physics do not apply. Since modern science rejects both God and the spirit world, they have come up with the idea of multiple universes. Metaphorically they use a loaf of bread to represent the universe and each version of it is like a slice. This idea is extremely popular in science fiction shows such as Star Trek as well as comic book stories like Flash on TV. For a believer to accept this as true without qualifying that this is just a theory was surprising to me. God and a spiritual dimension to creation could easily be the answer to the mathematical weight of the universe. However, I did concede to the brother that in the mind of God He knows all possible outcomes of every choice that can be made by all people and all people that could be born to make those choices. So, in a multi-verse could exist simply in God's mind, but not necessarily in reality.

 

Yeah, I am familiar with that. I think there is no evidence for a multiverse. It is a creation of atheist scientists. We live in a fine-tuned super-symmetrical universe which started from a Big Bang. Plus, DNA is so highly specified and complex, creation is proven. There are also molecular machines. The videos below describe this well:

 

 

If there is a multiverse, it may be an infinite number of New Jerusalems in heaven.

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There are many places in the Bible where God says he knew us before we were born; I have never found one which says we knew God. The fact that God knew us shows his omniscience and the fact that he isn't in time as we are; it doesn't prove that we existed before we were born.

 

That's a really good point. There seems to be a bit more evidence that we did not pre-exist based on Bible Scripture.

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If there is a multiverse, it may be an infinite number of New Jerusalems in heaven.

 

And an infinite number of incarnations, deaths and resurrections of Christ. But what does the Scripture say?

 

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

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And an infinite number of incarnations, deaths and resurrections of Christ. But what does the Scripture say?

 

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

 

Yeah, I don't believe there is a multiverse at all. I was just saying if there is one, it is just a layer of or universe of heaven, not of this world where Christ offered to bear our sins.

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Yeah, I don't believe there is a multiverse at all. I was just saying if there is one, it is just a layer of or universe of heaven, not of this world where Christ offered to bear our sins.

 

I know, I was giving a supporting verse.

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I know, I was giving a supporting verse.

 

That was a good verse to use as support.

Edited by CDF47

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There are Christian denominations which believe in the pre-existence of the soul, either as eternal or created at some point of time in heaven prior to human birth.

 

Hi CDF47, I'm well aware of our Mormon friends beliefs in this regard (they believe we are all from everlasting, just like God is), but I'm unaware of any Christian churches/denominations that hold to pre-existence. To which churches and/or denominations do you refer?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours and His,

David

 

 

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Hi CDF47, I'm well aware of our Mormon friends beliefs in this regard (they believe we are all from everlasting, just like God is), but I'm unaware of any Christian churches/denominations that hold to pre-existence. To which churches and/or denominations do you refer?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours and His,

David

 

 

I was mainly referring to the Mormons but also just the thought if there was any pre-existence for humans. As angels are created in Heaven, were some or all humans created at some point there as well, is what I was asking. Just some thoughts I've had in the past but I do not believe Scripture supports this.

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I was mainly referring to the Mormons but also just the thought if there was any pre-existence for humans. As angels are created in Heaven, were some or all humans created at some point there as well, is what I was asking. Just some thoughts I've had in the past but I do not believe Scripture supports this.

 

Hi again CDF47, you're right, the Bible doesn't support/teach such a view, and neither do any of the churches/denominations within Christendom. The LDS are not Christians, no matter what they would have us believe.

 

Yours and His,

David

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Hi again CDF47, you're right, the Bible doesn't support/teach such a view, and neither do any of the churches/denominations within Christendom. The LDS are not Christians, no matter what they would have us believe.

 

Yours and His,

David

 

Yeah, the LDS are definitely a denomination onto their own.

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Yeah, the LDS are definitely a denomination onto their own.

 

Cult is a better term, in my opinion.

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Cult is a better term, in my opinion.

 

LDS may fit that term. I save that term for groups like Scientology, Masons,...

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I like the NET Bible translation of this verse. It really brings out the parallelism.

 

"Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I chose you.

Before you were born I set you apart.

 

I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

 

Note that the NET Bible translates the verb "chose" rather than "know." This is completely acceptable and well within its semantic range. The ESV (and also the NIV) does the same thing with the same verb in Gen. 18:19: "For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.”

 

 

 

 

 

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I like the NET Bible translation of this verse. They really bring out the parallelism.

 

"Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I chose you.

Before you were born I set you apart.

 

I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

 

Note that the NET Bible translates the verb "chose" rather than "know." This is completely acceptable and well within its semantic range. The ESV (and also the NIV) does the same thing with the same verb in Gen. 8:19: "I have chosen him so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just."

 

 

Those translations definitely make it more clear.

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Yeah, the LDS are definitely a denomination onto their own.

 

Hi CDF47, no, they are not. Within Christendom, "denomination" is a word that's specifically associated with Protestants. Mormons are neither Protestants nor Christians, so "denomination" should never be used as a description of the Mormon church.

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Hi CDF47, no, they are not. Within Christendom, "denomination" is a word that's specifically associated with Protestants. Mormons are neither Protestants nor Christians, so "denomination" should never be used as a description of the Mormon church.

 

How would you describe them then?

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How would you describe them then?

 

As Mormons. They are a non-Christian cult or church. To refer to them as a "denomination" would mean that they are in some manner a part of Christianity and Christendom. They are not!

 

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How would you describe them then?

 

Anyone that rejects the Nicene Creed ultimately puts themselves outside of orthodoxy. It is probably the greatest litmus test of a body or group of people. Reject any of the truths conveyed by the Creed and one finds themselves placed within a Sect or Cult. I would definitely place Mormons within the classification of a Cult and reluctantly a "Christian Cult". They have not only rejected the Creed and the truths conveyed by Scripture, but they have also rejected the universal (catholic) Church. It is important to remember that all denominations agree to the truths as conveyed in the ecumenical Creeds. This is what they have in common and why they are Christian "denominations". Outside of orthodoxy, and rejecting the Creed(s) are JWs, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, and a ton of Non-denominational bodies. Not to mention many liberal bent churches. Creeds and church confessions are usually the first thing to go in a liberal leaning body, because in order for anything unscriptural to exists, they must first create disarray in the body. That is, orthodoxy has to go bye bye.

 

God bless,

William

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