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Innerfire89

Young earth.

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I keep hearing from some that the earth looks old, but how can that be? What are we comparing the earth to to say it's old? If the earth is six to ten thousand years old it would look like what we can already see. What we can see is the earth has a limit on how old it can be, the earth's rotation is slowing down, that would mean at one time it moved faster. Now if the earth is millions of years old than one day would have been a minute and the earth would have hurricane force winds constanly. The moon is moving away from the earth, it couldn't have started out too close or the oceans tides would wash the earth flat closer than that and the moon and earth would collide. Oil is just old dead..... stuff underground. When someone strikes oil it shoots up in the air due to the pressure it's under, the earth couldn't have held that pressure for millions of years. The Bible is are scource of truth, let's judge science by The Bible, it's lead us right in the rest of life.

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I keep hearing from some that the earth looks old, but how can that be?

The earth looks old because it is old. It is at least 6,000 years old. :RpS_biggrin:

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The implication is that it is all a constant. The earth constantly maintains itself. Age is not a factor. Did God do that? :RpS_sad:

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The implication is that it is all a constant. The earth constantly maintains itself. Age is not a factor. Did God do that? :RpS_sad:

 

So then again the age of the earth can't be measured by scientific means.

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So then again the age of the earth can't be measured by scientific means.

 

I'd think (not a scientist) that nuclear explosions and nuclear plant meltdowns make difficult any accurate dating of fossils etc.

 

Interestingly coal plants can release more radioactive waste than nuclear plants: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

 

God bless,

William

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You might be interested in what these scientists all have to say in their new and extremely we done documentary called, Is Genesis History? (they are all YEC, just FYI)

 

You can buy the Blu Ray, stream it on Amazon for $$, or watch it in HD on Netflix for free. Enjoy!

Topics Covered

 

One of the biggest challenges in understanding the issues surrounding Genesis is that there is so much to consider. It’s easy to get lost in the trees and lose sight of the forest. The movie’s goal is to make it easier to understand these fairly complex topics. Here’s an overview of topics explored in the film:

  • Paradigms
  • Created Kinds
  • Fossil Record
  • DNA
  • Transitional Forms
  • Historic Views
  • Evolution
  • Ecosystems

  • Global Flood
  • Starlight
  • Tower of Babel
  • Big Bang
  • Rock Layers
  • Genealogies
  • Radiocarbon Dating
  • Beauty

  • Hebrew Text
  • Dinosaurs
  • Epochs of History
  • Neanderthals
  • Nautiloids
  • Soft Tissue
  • Coal Formation
  • Science

  • Design
  • Culture
  • Radioisotope Dating
  • Tree of Life
  • Adam & Eve
  • Ice Age
  • Post-Flood
  • Purpose

 

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In order to accurately measure the age of the earth science is not enough. You first need to know whether the earth was created by God or whether in is the result of impersonal physical action. Scientists who believe it is billions of years old assume that the second case is true.

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The history of our understanding of the age of the earth is quite interesting. For example, how many here knew that it was actually 18th and 19th century European Christian scientists who first realized that the earth was much, much older than what was previously believed? As they traveled around the world more and things like roads and mines were dug, they saw geologic phenomena that clearly indicated very long periods of time. Some of them tried to give estimates for the earth's age, but it wasn't until the advent of radiometric dating methods that scientists were able to be more firm in their estimates. And yes, radiometric dating is quite reliable and very well regarded in science. One indication of this is how different isotopes decay via completely different mechanisms, yet the results they give overlap. That by itself is a compelling reason to conclude that the results are accurate.

 

Simply put, the earth looks old because it is old. Sure, we could say that God just made it look old even though it's really young, but I can't for the life of me imagine why God would deceive like that.

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they saw geologic phenomena that clearly indicated very long periods of time.

Or they could be the results of the world wide flood.

 

I can't for the life of me imagine why God would deceive like that.

He hasn't deceived us. He has given us enough information in the Bible to enable us to figure out how old the earth is. The fossils that people point to as evidence the earth is old are the result of the flood, but many refuse to believe the flood took place so they have come up with the idea the earth is old in order to explain the fossils.

 

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/flood-deniers-2/

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Or they could be the results of the world wide flood.

Not really. For example, they often wrote about formations that clearly showed alternating layers of dry and wet, which is obviously not compatible with a global flood.

 

He hasn't deceived us.

I agree.

 

He has given us enough information in the Bible to enable us to figure out how old the earth is.

This is why I explained in the other threat that I don't read the Bible as if it were a paper published in a science journal. That's not what scripture is about.

 

The fossils that people point to as evidence the earth is old are the result of the flood, but many refuse to believe the flood took place so they have come up with the idea the earth is old in order to explain the fossils.

Actually history is the reverse of what you described. Scientists (many of whom were Christian) were estimating ancient ages for the earth well before flood geology fell out of favor.

 

 

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Not really. For example, they often wrote about formations that clearly showed alternating layers of dry and wet, which is obviously not compatible with a global flood.

 

Have you ever examined what is taught by organizations such as Answers in Genesis, that teach about a global flood?

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Have you ever examined what is taught by organizations such as Answers in Genesis, that teach about a global flood?

 

Yes, quite a bit actually.

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Yes, quite a bit actually.

 

Hi RJ, if you have the time, consider following my recommendation in post #6 above (particularly if you have Netflix, since the documentary is "free" on Netflix right now :)). I believe you will find the new information all those scientists present to us both captivating and important to consider and know (in this extremely well-done 2016 documentary). Geologic phenomena and radiometric dating, and what both indicate (and why) are discussed at some length, even though it is a short film (its only major drawback IMHO).

 

Yours and His,

David

Edited by David Lee
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...the earth looks old because it is old. Sure, we could say that God just made it look old even though it's really young, but I can't for the life of me imagine why God would deceive like that.

 

Hi again RJ, Creation, as Moses describes it (and as the Lord and His Apostles confirm it in the NT), really begs the age old question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" :)

 

IOW, do you believe that God has the power/ability/ingenuity to create the universe in the fully-functional, ordered manner that the Bible says He did, or do you believe that the order we experience in Creation today is something that He did not have the ability to bring about, that His only choice was to bring order out of chaos over billions of years?

 

I believe what the Bible says. If the account of Creation is some kind of myth, allegory or parable, that would be deceptive, 1) because it reads like a real or true story does and 2) perhaps most importantly, it is confirmed as such in the NT, again and again and again, with no hint whatsoever from the Lord or from the Apostles that it might be otherwise!! So it's not a stretch for me to believe that if God created the heavens and the earth, it's critters, our progenitors, etc., in the manner He says He did in the Bible, that He was able to create it all in the ordered manner that we see it now, from the beginning. In fact, if He does have the power/ability/ingenuity to do so, why would He have chosen to create the universe in any other way?

 

However, if He did 'not' have the ability to create the universe (and us) in the manner the Bible describes, why not tell us? Quite frankly, wouldn't it have been easier for Moses and Israelites to believe that God built the universe over a long period of time (from the ground up, so to speak, like building a house), rather than believing that He called Creation into existence "as is"?

 

My final problems with the allegory/myth/parable idea are many, but here are just a couple of them. If the Creation story is a lie, where does the "lie" end? Genesis chapter 12? The Resurrection? Or is ALL of it a lie (and how could we possibly know)? Also, what do we do with chapters like Romans 5, for instance? If the Creation is a lie, then everything that St. Paul wrote in that chapter, beginning with v12, has to be a lie as well!

 

That would also make God, not us, the proximate cause (Author) of sin and evil in this world. I could go on and on, of course, but I think you understand what I'm getting at (yes?).

 

Thanks!

 

In Christ,

David

 

 

"Through one man sin entered into the

world, and death through sin"

Romans 5:12

 

Edited by David Lee
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Hi RJ, if you have the time, consider following my recommendation in post #6 above (particularly if you have Netflix, since the documentary is "free" on Netflix right now :)).

I have seen it, but thank you for the suggestion.

 

Hi again RJ, Creation, as Moses describes it (and as the Lord and His Apostles confirm it in the NT), really begs the age old question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" smile.png

 

IOW, do you believe that God has the power/ability/ingenuity to create the universe in the fully-functional, ordered manner that the Bible says He did, or do you believe that the order we experience in Creation today is something that He did not have the ability to bring about, that His only choice was to bring order out of chaos over billions of years?

Well, I don't believe our choices are limited to only those two options. "Order out of chaos" is rather subjective; I personally find the universe and its history quite beautiful. And I certainly don't think anyone in this forum would be advocating that God doesn't have the ability to do pretty much.....anything, or that God was somehow limited to only one choice in things.

 

I believe what the Bible says.

Wonderful! I do too!

 

If the account of Creation is some kind of myth, allegory or parable, that would be deceptive

I agree.

 

So it's not a stretch for me to believe that if God created the heavens and the earth, it's critters, our progenitors, etc., in the manner He says He did in the Bible, that He was able to create it all in the ordered manner that we see it now, from the beginning. In fact, if He does have the power/ability/ingenuity to do so, why would He have chosen to create the universe in any other way?

I agree again!

 

However, if He did 'not' have the ability to create the universe (and us) in the manner the Bible describes, why not tell us?

I think we also agree that God is not limited in the way you describe, right?

 

My final problems with the allegory/myth/parable idea are many, but here are just a couple of them. If the Creation story is a lie, where does the "lie" end?

And like above, I have a hard time believing anyone in this forum will be taking up the position that "the Creation story is a lie".

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Simply put, the earth looks old because it is old. Sure, we could say that God just made it look old even though it's really young, but I can't for the life of me imagine why God would deceive like that.

 

Could it be to make the intelligent, well educated, trained "scientists" look foolish? :RpS_wink:

 

The wisdom of the sensible is to understand his way, But the foolishness of fools is deceit.” (Proverbs 14:8, NASB95)

 

 

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Could it be to make the intelligent, well educated, trained "scientists" look foolish? :RpS_wink:

 

The wisdom of the sensible is to understand his way, But the foolishness of fools is deceit.” (Proverbs 14:8, NASB95)

 

That makes no sense to me. That kinda sets the stage where God goes out of His way to exclude intelligent people from the faith.

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That makes no sense to me. That kinda sets the stage where God goes out of His way to exclude intelligent people from the faith.

 

No argument from me. 1 Corinthians 3:19-20 views worldly intellectual schemes that corrupt the churches and destroy the Gospel.

 

1 Corinthians 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

 

Looks to me like God does go out of His way "to catch the wise in their craftiness".

 

God bless,

William

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No argument from me. 1 Corinthians 3:19-20 views worldly intellectual schemes that corrupt the churches and destroy the Gospel.

 

1 Corinthians 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

 

Looks to me like God does go out of His way "to catch the wise in their craftiness".

 

God bless,

William

 

So you believe God deliberately acts to prevent intelligent people from being saved?

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So you believe God deliberately acts to prevent intelligent people from being saved?

 

By nature all people (intelligent or otherwise) left to themselves have no hope of being saved, because they cannot save themselves. That is the default position or disposition of mankind. If God passes over an individual then in a negative sense God's action consequently prevents salvation. This is called the negative schema of double predestination. To answer your question, yes, I believe God deliberately acts to prevent people from being saved such as hardening the heart. You can read about this in Romans 9, but I'd refer you to read Romans 1-3 with emphasis first.

 

I think your misunderstanding comes from your thinking that any man's "intelligence" is a worthy attribute or condition that merits salvation.

 

God bless,

William

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How do we know what old looks like? Weather the earth is young or old it looks like what it looks like. No one has watched a plant age for as long as the earth has, there's nothing to compare the to.

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How do we know what old looks like? Weather the earth is young or old it looks like what it looks like. No one has watched a plant age for as long as the earth has, there's nothing to compare the to.

 

Right, this has been emphasized. Scientific creation accounts are not observable, repeatable, and testable. They'd rather us reject the Genesis account and narration for a scientific one where no one actually witnessed creation. We can have faith that God's word is true, because we know the Father, and we know His word is always true and He was there at "the beginning".

 

God bless,

William

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By nature all people (intelligent or otherwise) left to themselves have no hope of being saved, because they cannot save themselves. That is the default position or disposition of mankind. If God passes over an individual then in a negative sense God's action consequently prevents salvation. This is called the negative schema of double predestination. To answer your question, yes, I believe God deliberately acts to prevent people from being saved such as hardening the heart. You can read about this in Romans 9, but I'd refer you to read Romans 1-3 with emphasis first.

 

I think your misunderstanding comes from your thinking that any man's "intelligence" is a worthy attribute or condition that merits salvation.

 

God bless,

William

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with the belief that God goes out of His way to keep "the wise" from being saved, and then punishes them for all eternity for not being saved. Also, it sort of sends a signal to everyone that Christianity is a faith of the unintelligent....kind of the "check your brain at the church door" popular stereotype of Christians.

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How do we know what old looks like?

 

Lots of different ways. And what's particularly compelling is how often they converge on the same conclusion. And again, remember that it was early Christian scientists who first started realizing that the earth was ancient, so it's not like it was some sort of anti-Bible conspiracy.

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I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with the belief that God goes out of His way to keep "the wise" from being saved, and then punishes them for all eternity for not being saved. Also, it sort of sends a signal to everyone that Christianity is a faith of the unintelligent....kind of the "check your brain at the church door" popular stereotype of Christians.

 

It is not my job to convict you of Scripture. I referenced Romans 1-3 and chapter 9. If anything, you have revealed your level of theology and it has taken upon the face of Pelagianism.

 

And that's your opinion of the faithful, that is an unintelligent check your brain at the church door stereotype.

 

God made the Gospel folly to those that are perishing. He does not send people with worldly eloquent wisdom and schemes as the means to draw people to Himself:

 

1 Corinthians 1:17-18 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

God bless,

William

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