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William

Trump’s claim about ‘people who voted illegally’ takes STUNNING new turn

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Just how big a problem is voter fraud?

 

Just a few weeks after his election day victory, then-President Elect Donald Trump turned a few heads by posting that he won not only the electoral college, but also the popular vote if you “deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”

 

It seemed like an irrelevant point to make. Not only had he already won, there was no evidence to suggest voter fraud on the scale Trump alleged. In fact, by the end of November, only four cases of voter fraud had been documented in the 2016 election. Of course, that doesn’t mean that there were only four cases of voter fraud.

 

As The Federalist’s John Gibbs puts it “does the fact that 109 people were cited for jaywalking in Seattle in 2009 mean that only 109 people jaywalked in Seattle that year? Does the fact that 103,733 people were cited for driving without a seat-belt in Tennessee in 2015 mean that only that many people were driving without seatbelt in Tennessee in 2015? Obviously not.”

 

There’s a possibility for voter fraud — but not much evidence for it…until now.

 

According to the Washington Times:

 

A research group in New Jersey has taken a fresh look at post-election polling data and concluded that the number of non-citizens voting illegally in U.S. elections is likely far greater than previous estimates.

 

 

As many as 5.7 million non-citizens may have voted in the 2008 election, which put Barack Obama in the White House. The research organization Just Facts, a widely cited, independent think tank led by self-described conservatives and libertarians, revealed its number-crunching in a report on national immigration.

 

Just Facts President James D. Agresti and his team looked at data from an extensive Harvard/YouGov study that every two years questions a sample size of tens of thousands of voters. Some acknowledge they are non-citizens and are thus ineligible to vote.

 

Just Facts’ conclusions confront both sides in the illegal voting debate: those who say it happens a lot and those who say the problem nonexistent. In one camp, there are groundbreaking studies by professors at Old Dominion University in Virginia who attempted to compile scientifically derived illegal voting numbers using the Harvard data, called the Cooperative Congressional Election Study.

 

On the other side are the professors who conducted the study and contended that “zero” non-citizens of about 18 million adults in the U.S. voted. The liberal mainstream media adopted this position and proclaimed the Old Dominion work was “debunked.”

 

Mr. Agresti’s analysis of the same polling data settled on much higher numbers. He estimated that as many as 7.9 million non-citizens were illegally registered that year and 594,000 to 5.7 million voted.

 

These numbers are more in line with the unverified estimates given by President Trump, who said the number of ballots cast by non-citizens was the reason he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton.

 

Last month, the president signed an executive order setting up a commission to try to find on-the-ground truth in illegal voting. Headed by Vice President Mike Pence, the panel also will look at outdated voter lists across the nation with names of dead people and multiple registrants.

 

For 2012, Just Facts said, 3.2 million to 5.6 million non-citizens were registered to vote and 1.2 million to 3.6 million of them voted.

 

Now, just because they’re registered to vote doesn’t mean they voted illegally — but the million dollar question is, of course, why would they be registered to vote if they didn’t plan on voting?

 

Mr. Agresti lays out his reasoning in a series of complicated calculations, which he compares to U.S. Census Bureau figures for non-citizen residents. Polls show non-citizens vote overwhelmingly Democratic.

 

“The details are technical, but the figure I calculated is based on a more conservative margin of sampling error and a methodology that I consider to be more accurate,” Mr. Agresti told The Washington Times.

 

He believes the Harvard/YouGov researchers based their “zero” claim on two flawed assumptions. First, they assumed that people who said they voted and identified a candidate did not vote unless their names showed up in a database.

 

“This is illogical, because such databases are unlikely to verify voters who use fraudulent identities, and millions of non-citizens use them,” Mr. Agresti said.

 

He cites government audits that show large numbers of noncitizens use false IDs and Social Security numbers in order to function in the U.S., which could include voting.

 

Second, Harvard assumed that respondent citizens sometimes misidentified themselves as non-citizens but also concluded that non-citizens never misidentified themselves as citizens, Mr. Agresti said.

 

“This is irrational, because illegal immigrants often claim they are citizens in order to conceal the fact that they are in the U.S. illegally,” he said.

 

Of course, even if Agresti’s figures have a margin of error of 90 percent, there are still hundreds of thousands of illegal votes for Democrats each election. In presidential elections that can we swung by just a few thousands in certain key states, that’s shocking no matter how you look at it.

 

Source: http://www.allenbwest.com/matt-palum...nning-new-turn

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He said before the election that, if he lost, it would be ecause of voter fruad, so I suppose he couldn't changee his tune after he had won, and say there had been no fraud.

 

Notice the way it is simply taken for granted that fraudulent votes, if there were any, would have been cast for the Democrats, and all Republican votes were whiter than white.

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He said before the election that, if he lost, it would be ecause of voter fruad, so I suppose he couldn't changee his tune after he had won, and say there had been no fraud.

 

Notice the way it is simply taken for granted that fraudulent votes, if there were any, would have been cast for the Democrats, and all Republican votes were whiter than white.

 

 

 

Of Course it would be the Democrates -- we Republicans would Never - Ever consider such actions. :eek: :rolleyes: :)

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Honestly I don't care who they think the votes were cast for, a review forcing states to update voter lists and remove dead or duplicated voters can only be to the good. It is some time until the next election, so I wonder how many areas will shift district boundaries in response to the new lists. I would hope the commission would be a cross-party effort though, as that's probably the only way to ensure the commission isn't biased. If a party refuses to take part, then that wouldn't look good on them. The problem is going to be for voters who are removed by error who have to prove they have the right to be back on it. Duplicated names, or blurred addresses, could cause quite some confusion.

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When one takes party “leaners” into account (i.e., those who don’t say they identify with one of the major parties, but in a follow-up question say they feel closer to one party than the other), about half of unauthorized Hispanic immigrants either identify with (31%) or lean towards (23%) the Democratic Party, while about two-in-ten identify with (4%) or lean towards (15%) the Republican Party. About a quarter (27%) do not identify with or lean towards either party.

 

FT_13_07.19_HispanicPolitics_640px.png.8ff0c3b1bc56ac4530ccd47ff5451618.png

 

Source: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/22/are-unauthorized-immigrants-overwhelmingly-democrats/

 

God bless,

William

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Yay! Finally we get some sanity.

 

I saw a video on YouTube of interviews at Berkeley, CA. White people all said voter ID laws were horrible, and discriminatory. Then they interviewed black people in NYC who all said they don't know anyone who doesn't have ID, and they all knew where to go to get it.

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Of course voter-id laws are discriminatory, they are just simply not Unfairly discriminatory.  Meaning, they are meant to make sure that everyone showing up to vote is a US Citizen.  This fairly discriminates against people who are not, because it applied uniformly to everyone.  If you don't have a state or federally issued ID that proves that you are a US citizen you are not allowed to vote.  It is that simple.  The only reason the democrats are against this is because most of their voters are not legal citizens, thus removing the possibility of them getting the votes they need in order to win whatever office for which they are running.

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1 hour ago, RazeontheRock said:

Then they interviewed black people in NYC who all said they don't know anyone who doesn't have ID, and they all knew where to go to get it.

 

I do not know of a single person I have ever known that didn't have some form of ID, you have to have it to do just about everything...

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I guess I have never understood why so many people don't see that the value of voting should be reserved as a right for lawful citizens but prefer it be spread amongst those who have not yet attained that privilege.  I know, I am old school......

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45 minutes ago, Civilwarbuff said:

I guess I have never understood why so many people don't see that the value of voting should be reserved as a right for lawful citizens but prefer it be spread amongst those who have not yet attained that privilege.  I know, I am old school......

Wait. That's law, not right or privilege subject to interpretation.

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Those who have not been born here need to obtain citizenship in order To vote // well -- are here on a visa of some sort need to keep within legal guidelines.  

 

And it shouldn't be considered 'old school' to obey the law / to be here Legally in order to vote. 

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13 hours ago, Civilwarbuff said:

I guess I have never understood why so many people don't see that the value of voting should be reserved as a right for lawful citizens but prefer it be spread amongst those who have not yet attained that privilege.  I know, I am old school......

 

It's all about silly political ideology and winning, nothing else matters. And it doesn't matter how you win, beg, steal, cheat anything goes...

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Politics has always been complicated.  But I wouldn't say it's silly.  There Are those who want to Win -- and At Any Price.   That is dangerous. And  it's usually the Bad guys who have that attitude.   

The most important thing is to Vote your conscience.  Be an informed voter. 

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it's a rule of law issue - when rule of law gets ignored voter fraud proliferates

 

PT has so much on his plate - hope he gets around to dealing with this one too

 

he and his supporters are about the only ones getting anything done

 

the rest are do-nothings or obstructionists

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Politics gets So Horribly Complicated it's Crazy.  

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49 minutes ago, Civilwarbuff said:
Shaking Head Sad animated emoticon

Makes you wonder how many other politicians have occupied positions they shouldn't have because of stuff like this, Al Franken comes to mind...

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Are you suggesting that Pres. Trump shouldn't have gotten into that office?  Actually a Lot of people never thought he'd get into serious running.  But he Did and he Has become President and I feel he's going a good job.  'Draining the swamp' can be a messy, smelly job.  And it's the mess and smell that isn't fun to be around.  But a swamp Needs to be cleaned out to make the area clean / Healthy.  

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21 hours ago, Sue D. said:

Are you suggesting that Pres. Trump shouldn't have gotten into that office?    

I don't think anybody here in this thread is suggesting that, but I have seen those in other forums who think that should have been the outcome...

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19 minutes ago, Uncle Siggy said:

I don't think anybody here in this thread is suggesting that, but I have seen those in other forums who think that should have been the outcome...

That's because some want to abandon the electoral college.....especially if it does not give them what they want.

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Wonder if the conservative folks would bother to vote if electoral college was gone?  They could turn out in HUGE numbers .

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