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William

The Vatican Is Looking for God in the Stars

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ROME—If you think faith and science can’t share common ground, think again. Experts in both realms met last week at the Vatican Observatory to prove their theory that you can’t have one without the other. “If you have no faith in your faith, that is when you will fear science,” said Brother Guy Consolmagno the Vatican’s chief astronomer, whose works include such titles as “Would you Baptize an Extraterrestrial?

 

Brother Consolmagno led the three-day conference called Black Holes, Gravitational Waves and Spacetime Singularities at the Vatican Observatory’s Castel Gandolfo labs outside of Rome, the former papal summer residence that is remote enough to allow for clear stargazing with minimal light pollution.

 

He challenged astronomers, cosmologists. and other experts in the field who also believe in God to “come out” and talk about the intersection of faith and fact. What he ended up with are talks like, “The Internal Structure of Spinning Black Holes” and “The Big Bang and its Dark-Matter Content: Whence, Whither, and Wherefore.” Not once in the whole program does the word “God” or “religion” even appear, which is rare for a conference sponsored by the Vatican.

 

The Vatican’s Pontifical Academy of Sciences is also absent from the scene, although it has sponsored similar events in the past to try to sort out the murky waters between hard facts and blind faith. The academy’s chancellor, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, told The Daily Beast in 2013 that the two are not mutually exclusive. “If we don't accept science, we don't accept reason,” said Sánchez, “and reason was created by God."

 

On the question of climate science and climate change, Pope Francis is not only convinced, he’s vehement. After the election of Donald Trump’s climate-change-skeptic administration last year, the pope noted that politicians had “reacted weakly” to the needs of humanity on this score and deplored “the ease with which well-founded scientific opinion about the state of our planet is disregarded.”

 

Clearly, the Church has come a long way since it condemned Galileo as a heretic during the Inquisition.

Pope Francis is not the hard-core creationist some of his predecessors were (and many Evangelicals in America are). In 2014, he told a Pontifical Academy of Sciences conference not to always take the Bible literally. “When we read in Genesis the account of Creation, we risk imagining God as a magician, with a magic wand able to make everything,” Francis said. “But it is not so.”

 

“The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather requires it,” Francis said at the time. “The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion of Creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.”

 

In fact, it was Father Georges Lemaître, a Roman Catholic priest, who is credited with coming up with the first scientific equations and the “primeval Atom” that led to what we now know as the “Big Bang Theory” in the first place. The Vatican Observatory conference also honors his legacy. Lemaître, a Belgian who moonlighted as an astrophysicist, published an article in a scientific journal in about it in 1927, two years before Edwin Hubble gained widely accepted fame for the theory.

 

Lemaître had called his version a “cosmic egg,” which never really caught on. He was forced to straddle a tightrope in 1951 when Pope Pius XII started confusing Lemaître’s work with the Gospel, saying that the Big Bang actually represented the moment of God’s creation which, as any good Catholic knows from Catechism, took place in a matter of in six days, with God resting on the seventh day, the Sabbath, and that’s why most of us get Sundays off.

 

Lemaître never published his research again after that that.

 

“This fear of science people talk about is a myth,” Father Gabriele Gionti, one of the conference organizers said. “Lemaître always made a distinction between the beginnings of the universe and its origins. The beginning of the universe is a scientific question to date with precision when things started. The origin of the universe, however, is a theologically charged question that has nothing at all to do with a scientific epistemology.”

 

Brother Consolmagno is perhaps more open to interpretation. The MIT-trained head of the Vatican Observatory believes that science and faith don’t always have to overlap. “God is not a scientific explanation,” he told Religion News Service. “If you are using God instead of science to explain what happens in the world you are talking about the gods of the Romans and Greeks. We believe in a God that creates outside space and time and shows us everything he did. We experience God as a person, as a god of love.”

 

At the end of the conference, Pope Francis told those who gathered not to fear the truth about what’s really out there. “I am deeply appreciative of your work, and I encourage you to persevere in your search for truth,” he said. “For we ought never to fear truth, nor become trapped in our own preconceived ideas, but welcome new scientific discoveries with an attitude of humility.”

 

Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/14/the-vatican-s-big-bang-theory

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Truth will not be found by science, this is paradoxical to what science is. No processes of inductive or deductive reasoning can sit firmly atop truth, they act as a severing blade and can only come infinitely close. The gap between "hard facts" and "blind faith" could be said to be murky waters, if these murky waters spanned infinitely afar. God most certainly did not create reason, as reason exists only when one does not know truth. The sinner will find a spot on the continuum between absolute truth and absolute lie; this area is called "reason." God no more created reason than he created sin, and I cannot seem to find any differentiation between reason and sin. Many who claim to be of the faith will have read the Bible and say otherwise, thereby rejecting the entire purpose of holy instruction which is obedience. We must stop our reasoning and be obedient; we must humble ourselves and admit we do not know anything. This is apparent even in Genesis, when the Lord gives Abraham a choice between what would appear, according to our reasoning, two evils: Kill your son or disobey God. It is not the case that God can require evil of us, and this account should illuminate to every reader that we truly cannot know what good or evil is--our reason falls short--and that we must have faith that the Father knows and that he is truth. These members of the Vatican are not searching for truth, they are intentionally distracting themselves from it. At the time of Jesus birth, the kings asked the scribes for the location of his birth and they knew, but only the kings went while having only a rumor, yet the scribes sat still having prodigious quantities of "understanding." As for anything Pope Francis says, let the Lord rebuke him.

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ROME—If you think faith and science can’t share common ground, think again. Experts in both realms met last week at the Vatican Observatory to prove their theory that you can’t have one without the other. “If you have no faith in your faith, that is when you will fear science,” said Brother Guy Consolmagno the Vatican’s chief astronomer, whose works include such titles as “Would you Baptize an Extraterrestrial?

 

Brother Consolmagno led the three-day conference called Black Holes, Gravitational Waves and Spacetime Singularities at the Vatican Observatory’s Castel Gandolfo labs outside of Rome, the former papal summer residence that is remote enough to allow for clear stargazing with minimal light pollution.

 

He challenged astronomers, cosmologists. and other experts in the field who also believe in God to “come out” and talk about the intersection of faith and fact. What he ended up with are talks like, “The Internal Structure of Spinning Black Holes” and “The Big Bang and its Dark-Matter Content: Whence, Whither, and Wherefore.” Not once in the whole program does the word “God” or “religion” even appear, which is rare for a conference sponsored by the Vatican.

 

The Vatican’s Pontifical Academy of Sciences is also absent from the scene, although it has sponsored similar events in the past to try to sort out the murky waters between hard facts and blind faith. The academy’s chancellor, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, told The Daily Beast in 2013 that the two are not mutually exclusive. “If we don't accept science, we don't accept reason,” said Sánchez, “and reason was created by God."

 

On the question of climate science and climate change, Pope Francis is not only convinced, he’s vehement. After the election of Donald Trump’s climate-change-skeptic administration last year, the pope noted that politicians had “reacted weakly” to the needs of humanity on this score and deplored “the ease with which well-founded scientific opinion about the state of our planet is disregarded.”

 

Clearly, the Church has come a long way since it condemned Galileo as a heretic during the Inquisition.

Pope Francis is not the hard-core creationist some of his predecessors were (and many Evangelicals in America are). In 2014, he told a Pontifical Academy of Sciences conference not to always take the Bible literally. “When we read in Genesis the account of Creation, we risk imagining God as a magician, with a magic wand able to make everything,” Francis said. “But it is not so.”

 

“The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather requires it,” Francis said at the time. “The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion of Creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.”

 

In fact, it was Father Georges Lemaître, a Roman Catholic priest, who is credited with coming up with the first scientific equations and the “primeval Atom” that led to what we now know as the “Big Bang Theory” in the first place. The Vatican Observatory conference also honors his legacy. Lemaître, a Belgian who moonlighted as an astrophysicist, published an article in a scientific journal in about it in 1927, two years before Edwin Hubble gained widely accepted fame for the theory.

 

Lemaître had called his version a “cosmic egg,” which never really caught on. He was forced to straddle a tightrope in 1951 when Pope Pius XII started confusing Lemaître’s work with the Gospel, saying that the Big Bang actually represented the moment of God’s creation which, as any good Catholic knows from Catechism, took place in a matter of in six days, with God resting on the seventh day, the Sabbath, and that’s why most of us get Sundays off.

 

Lemaître never published his research again after that that.

 

“This fear of science people talk about is a myth,” Father Gabriele Gionti, one of the conference organizers said. “Lemaître always made a distinction between the beginnings of the universe and its origins. The beginning of the universe is a scientific question to date with precision when things started. The origin of the universe, however, is a theologically charged question that has nothing at all to do with a scientific epistemology.”

 

Brother Consolmagno is perhaps more open to interpretation. The MIT-trained head of the Vatican Observatory believes that science and faith don’t always have to overlap. “God is not a scientific explanation,” he told Religion News Service. “If you are using God instead of science to explain what happens in the world you are talking about the gods of the Romans and Greeks. We believe in a God that creates outside space and time and shows us everything he did. We experience God as a person, as a god of love.”

 

At the end of the conference, Pope Francis told those who gathered not to fear the truth about what’s really out there. “I am deeply appreciative of your work, and I encourage you to persevere in your search for truth,” he said. “For we ought never to fear truth, nor become trapped in our own preconceived ideas, but welcome new scientific discoveries with an attitude of humility.”

 

Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/14/the-vatican-s-big-bang-theory

 

 

The Vatican is making a big, very big mistake here as they climb into bed with the Big Bangers..as well as those who believe in the religion of evolutionism. The BB as well as evolutionism squarely contradict scripture.

 

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God no more created reason than he created sin, and I cannot seem to find any differentiation between reason and sin.

Reason serves a very good purpose. It enables us to find out more information about our universe and about God. Any system of reason starts with facts that are known to be true and tries to find out more facts. Reason is good if you start out with real facts but if you are mistaken in your initial beliefs it can lead you astray.

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Reason serves a very good purpose. It enables us to find out more information about our universe and about God. Any system of reason starts with facts that are known to be true and tries to find out more facts. Reason is good if you start out with real facts but if you are mistaken in your initial beliefs it can lead you astray.

 

Reason's only purpose is for one to reason that he ought not to reason and let the Truth guide his steps instead. All systems of reason are constructed from men and many are even built under the pretense of "good intentions," but let us not forget that the road to hell is paved in good intentions. Let us also remember that Jesus attributed children to being closest to the ones that will inherit the kingdom of God, and this is simply because children have a very strong natural obedience to their fathers. How disgusting would it be if children were only obedient to their father by way of virtue rather than authority. "I am obedient to my father because he is very intelligent." The child in this situation is not actually obedient to their father at all, but is obedient to the virtue of intelligence. The same is with human reason. Information about our universe is vanity, a distraction, for it is said in Psalms "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."

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Information about our universe is vanity, a distraction, for it is said in Psalms "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."

 

I most sincerely hope that you are not being serious. Do you want to go back to living in caves? I know I don't.

 

 

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Reason's only purpose is for one to reason that he ought not to reason and let the Truth guide his steps instead. All systems of reason are constructed from men and many are even built under the pretense of "good intentions," but let us not forget that the road to hell is paved in good intentions. Let us also remember that Jesus attributed children to being closest to the ones that will inherit the kingdom of God, and this is simply because children have a very strong natural obedience to their fathers. How disgusting would it be if children were only obedient to their father by way of virtue rather than authority. "I am obedient to my father because he is very intelligent." The child in this situation is not actually obedient to their father at all, but is obedient to the virtue of intelligence. The same is with human reason. Information about our universe is vanity, a distraction, for it is said in Psalms "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."
That is nothing but a lot of existential babble. The LORD God gave us the universe and a mind to understand it. Moreover to believe that all systems of reason are constructed from men is pure nonsense. That is not Biblical nor logical, and is self refuting. In case you did not notice you are trying to use reason, very poorly I might add, in order to refute the use of reason.
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“For we ought never to fear truth",
Words said by Pope Francis

 

This is rich, coming from the head of the Church which hates the truth and killed those who stood up for the truth. The Council of Trent (which is still valid for the RCC, although they pretend it is not) was a blatant rejection of the truth.

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I most sincerely hope that you are not being serious. Do you want to go back to living in caves? I know I don't.

 

 

I sure do. Hebrews 11:38 KJV

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That is nothing but a lot of existential babble. The LORD God gave us the universe and a mind to understand it. Moreover to believe that all systems of reason are constructed from men is pure nonsense. That is not Biblical nor logical, and is self refuting. In case you did not notice you are trying to use reason, very poorly I might add, in order to refute the use of reason.

 

I don't know @Origin, did He? Psalm 115:16 KJV

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I don't know @Origin, did He? Psalm 115:16 KJV
Oh please! First, the Hebrew word "heavens" does not mean universe. In fact ancient Hebrew did not have a word for universe. Second, you missed the whole point.

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I sure do. Hebrews 11:38 KJV
Their "wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth" had nothing to do with studying the universe. Your use of Scripture is self severing and therefore disregards all context.
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Their "wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth" had nothing to do with studying the universe. Your use of Scripture is self severing and therefore disregards all context.

 

Well, to be fair, living in caves has nothing to do with studying the universe at all.

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Well, to be fair, living in caves has nothing to do with studying the universe at all.
Correct, which mean your reference to Hebrews 11:38 was completely irrelevant to the subject and taken out of context.

 

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Correct, which mean your reference to Hebrews 11:38 was completely irrelevant to the subject and taken out of context.

 

My apologies Origen and ThyWordisThyTruth. You are both older than I and more knowledgeable, and my pride puffed up.

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I don't know if the Vatican can find God out there, but they found the devil a long time ago.

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It couldn't have been too hard to find the devil if she was sleepng with him.

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