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Robertus

The Good News: a Modern Christian Apology

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Ok.

 

What do you mean by Ok? Are you a Trinitarian or not?

 

God bless,

William

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What do you mean by Ok? Are you a Trinitarian or not?

 

God bless,

William

According to Origins' definition, I guess not.

 

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According to Origins' definition, I guess not.

 

What definition did Origen provide?

 

God bless,

William

 

 

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According to Origins' definition, I guess not.
Please feel free to define trinitarianism.

 

By the way it is not my definition nor did I really offer a definition. For the record, Trinitarianism was defined many hundreds of years before I was born just as Sabellianism and Arianism were clearly defined. That is how we know what the difference are between the three.

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What definition did Origen provide?

 

God bless,

William

Sabellianism, or modalism which is nontrinitarian I guess.

 

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Please feel free to define trinitarianism.

God in three Persons.

 

By the way it is not my definition nor did I really offer a definition. For the record, Trinitarianism was defined many hundreds of years before I was born just as Sabellianism and Arianism were clearly defined. That is how we know what the difference are between the three.

Thanks Origen. I'm fine with my belief that God Who is the Holy Spirit appeared as Christ. Btw, why was Robertus banned?

 

 

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Sabellianism, or modalism which is nontrinitarian I guess.

 

Journeyman,

 

Why are you so deliberately vague? Why do you not answer direct questions clearly? Are you a Trinitarian? Yes or no?

 

There is a question now as to whether you're Christian let alone a saved one. The question is not whether you hold a theology degree, but whether there is an issue with willful ignorance or flat out rejection of the Trinity?

 

We're not asking you to lay out a dissertation of the Trinity. However, there are essentials which are outlined in the Nicene Creed.

 

Is there any part of the Creed you do not agree? Do you consider the truths conveyed by the Creed unbiblical?

 

Nicene Creed

 

"We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

“And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

“And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

Why are we concerned? Because you continually demonstrate a lack of comprehension and refuse to stop "teaching". We have red flags reported from people here concerned about Christian essentials. We have children at young ages that read this board. We are concerned that your teaching is false.

 

You can easily clear all this up Journeyman.

 

God bless,

William

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God in three Persons.
That explains nothing.

 

I'm fine with my belief that God Who is the Holy Spirit appeared as Christ.
Being fine with a belief is not the standard by which doctrines are to be understood or judged. The only thing that matter is if it is biblical. Anyone and everyone who ever held a heretical doctrine was fine with his\her belief. That is nothing new.

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Journeyman,

 

Why are you so deliberately vague? Why do you not answer direct questions clearly? Are you a Trinitarian? Yes or no?

I always thought I was, until Origen said I believed in Sabellianism. I've never heard that term.

 

There is a question now as to whether you're Christian let alone a saved one. The question is not whether you hold a theology degree, but whether there is an issue with willful ignorance or flat out rejection of the Trinity?

 

We're not asking you to lay out a dissertation of the Trinity. However, there are essentials which are outlined in the Nicene Creed.

 

Is there any part of the Creed you do not agree? Do you consider the truths conveyed by the Creed unbiblical?

After reading it, no I don't see it as unbiblical. I see it as an attempt to explain the nature of God. After reading a definition of Sabellianism, I didn't really get what they meant by God as three "modes". Personally, I believe God appeared as the Person we know as Jesus. In other words, the Holy Spirit with a covering of flesh. Aditionally, I have no formal education and I know I believe in Jesus.

 

Why are we concerned? Because you continually demonstrate a lack of comprehension and refuse to stop "teaching". We have red flags reported from people here concerned about understanding Christian essentials. We have children at young ages that read this board. We are concerned that your teaching is false.

 

You can easily clear all this up Journeyman.

 

God bless,

William

I hope I cleared it up for you. I would like to add I reject the beliefs which have to be known as "Calvinism".

 

 

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I would be happy in the Lord if you would embrace the Triune God of the Bible.

I'm sure the others communicating with you now would like to see that as well.

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That explains nothing.

That's basically what trinitarianism is, isn't it? God in, or as, or is three People, but one God.

 

Being fine with a belief is not the standard by which doctrines are to be understood or judged. The only thing that matter is if it is biblical. Anyone and everyone who ever held a heretical doctrine was fine with his\her belief. That is nothing new.

I don't have a problem with anyone who

doesn't completely understand the very nature of God, but does believe what Jesus taught, that He gave His life to save us from sin and that we should repent and follow Him.

 

 

 

 

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I would be happy in the Lord if you would embrace the Triune God of the Bible.

I'm sure the others communicating with you now would like to see that as well.

My belief the person named Jesus, people perceived in 1st century Jerusalem was really God Himself, the Holy Spirt, in human form is not unscriptural. Is that considered Triune in nature?

 

The question of my belief about the nature of God began with my assertion in post #40 of this thread that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, because of how the writer of Hebrew explained the flesh of Jesus and His role as High Priest. Nobody refuted my assertion by giving his or her understanding of that passage from Hebrews.

 

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You stated that "Jesus is the Holy Spirit". And I am unable to arrive at the same conclusion based on the provided verses. However, I do see that Hebrews 10 is Trinitarian.[Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

Hebrews 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

Excellent!

 

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Okay where to start. Well I guess we should start with the Athanasian Creed. So beginning at the beginning.

 

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep hole and undefiled, without doubt He Shall Perish everlastingly.

 

And the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity; neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the Majesty Co Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such as the Holy Ghost.The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not 3 eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not 3 almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian Verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord, so we are forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.

 

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor create, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor be gotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another; but the whole three persons Are co-Eternal together, and co-equal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the unity in Trinity and the trinity in unity is to be worshipped. He, therefore, that will be saved must think of the trinity.

 

Furthermore, it is necessary to Everlasting salvation that he also believe Faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching his manhood; who, although he be God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ: one, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; one altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; who suffered for our salvation; descended into Hell, Rose again the Third Day from the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life Everlasting; and they that have done evil, into Everlasting fire.

 

This is the Catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."

 

Okay. I have gone through and I have corrected as many grammatical issues as I needed to to make it make sense. Where the capitalization rules were significant to what was being said, I corrected them. When it wasn't particularly relevant, I left it alone. I read them aloud, directly into the phone. Using Speech-to-Text, so it will cause some issues. But I read it aloud directly from the Book of Concord.

 

Now, where it talks about works at the end of the text, that can be interpreted in the Lutheran way. What that means, is that we have our faith alone our grace alone and our scripture alone. However, after our faith starts us in Christ, we will produce good works as a result thereof. But not in order to save us. But, our works will be looked at as a sign of our faith. We can discuss that more later. Right now I just wanted to get this going on the Trinity.

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