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William

The Shack — The Missing Art of Evangelical Discernment

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6 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

Never read it, but I've read reviews that used direct quotes from the book showing some serious heresy, so therefore it's only good for toilet paper.

One of the false teachings from the book is that God doesn't punish sin, that's bad enough right there.

   

If you didn't read the book but read the reviews your views are not your own but the views of others.  So basically others are telling you how to think about a thing and you're going along with it.  

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23 minutes ago, Papa Zoom said:

If you didn't read the book but read the reviews your views are not your own but the views of others.  So basically others are telling you how to think about a thing and you're going along with it.  

Unless the quotes they used were fake, then I agree with them that what they shown from the book is heresy. 

 

 

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Specifically name the heresy.  

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A few quotes from The Shack.

 

Papa, the character who represents God says on page 120.

" I don't need to punish sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside."

 

I don't think I need to point out what's wrong there.

  

Page 121. 

"Whoa" said Papa, who had retured from the kitchen with yet another dish. "Take it easy on those greens, young man. Those things can give you the trots if you ain't careful."

 

That's highly disrespectful to portray God as joking around about diarrhea! 

 

Page 182

(Jesus talking with Mack.)

I have no desire to make them Christian, but to join them in thier transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my beloved.

 

Univeralist nonsense.

 

Page 224.

(Papa talking with Mack about forgiving the man who killed his daughter)

Mack, for you to forgive this man is for you to release him to me him to me and allow me to redeem him.

 

It's seems like the underlying teaching of The Shack is a blasphemous from of fake Christianity.

   

 

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15 minutes ago, Papa Zoom said:

Specifically name the heresy.  

I was actually typing that last comment when you're reply came in. But from what I'm seeing the book is full of heresy. 

 

I'm not trying to attack you or make you look bad, but the book is total garbage. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that you might not have noticed these things.

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I usually read reviews for any given movie before seeing it. Albert Mohler (O.P.) is pretty credible concerning the Christian essentials. Having such a poor review from multiple credible theologians helped me decide to pass on the book and film. 

 

God bless,

William 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

A few quotes from The Shack.

 

Papa, the character who represents God says on page 120.

" I don't need to punish sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside."

 

I don't think I need to point out what's wrong there.

  

Page 121. 

"Whoa" said Papa, who had retured from the kitchen with yet another dish. "Take it easy on those greens, young man. Those things can give you the trots if you ain't careful."

 

That's highly disrespectful to portray God as joking around about diarrhea! 

 

Page 182

(Jesus talking with Mack.)

I have no desire to make them Christian, but to join them in thier transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my beloved.

 

Univeralist nonsense.

 

Page 224.

(Papa talking with Mack about forgiving the man who killed his daughter)

Mack, for you to forgive this man is for you to release him to me him to me and allow me to redeem him.

 

It's seems like the underlying teaching of The Shack is a blasphemous from of fake Christianity.

   

 

I thank My God that the god they have taught you at your church is not the one who loves me.  You don't seem to have understood one thing the author was saying.

Edited by Willie T
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43 minutes ago, William said:

I usually read reviews for any given movie before seeing it. Albert Mohler (O.P.) is pretty credible concerning the Christian essentials. Having such a poor review from multiple credible theologians helped me decide to pass on the book and film. 

 

God bless,

William 

Very similar to the same kind of reaction Jesus got from the Religious Community in His day....... "He's not acting Holy enough."

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4 minutes ago, Willie T said:

Very similar to the same kind of reaction Jesus got from the Religious Community in His day....... "He's not acting Holy enough."

Really? Now I'm wondering whether you are orthodox enough to be here on this forum? It is a full time job heeding the warnings by Jesus and the apostles about false teachers.

 

 

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1 minute ago, William said:

Really? Now I'm wondering whether you are orthodox enough to be here on this forum?

 

 

Well, you hold the power.  Jesus wasn't "orthodox" enough for the Religious ones who also held the power in His day either.... so they murdered Him.  Ban me if you feel I am going to upset your little apple cart.  I wouldn't want you to be nervous about what I might say.

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1 hour ago, Willie T said:

Well, you hold the power.  Jesus wasn't "orthodox" enough for the Religious ones who also held the power in His day either.... so they murdered Him.  Ban me if you feel I am going to upset your little apple cart.  I wouldn't want you to be nervous about what I might say.

Actually, I see you as the religious leaders which criticized and held others to a distorted gospel (The Shack), that is, rather than scripture. And since you have no attachments here and have no problem telling me off lemme show you to the door.

 

William 

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Never read the book. I think that's probably a good thing.

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2 hours ago, Willie T said:

Very similar to the same kind of reaction Jesus got from the Religious Community in His day....... "He's not acting Holy enough."

The Pharisees hated Him because of their tradition, it wasn't based on biblical authority. You make a false comparison.

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Posted (edited)

There are some who I know saw the movie, and they actually had so little Biblical knowledge the asked a lot of questions. But they as ignorant of the Bible as they were still knew most of it was pure junk.

 

 

We live in a time of feel good religion like Joel Osteen preaches, and most people don't want to be told what the can and can't do. That;s why so many huge churches are growing like nobodies business.  When Romans Chapter one and 1st and 2nd Corinthians are torn out a lot more pleople enjoy their sinful life.

Edited by Just Mike
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13 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

A few quotes from The Shack.

 

Papa, the character who represents God says on page 120.

" I don't need to punish sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside."

This is true about sin.  It does devour from the inside.  It ruins us.  It (sin) is living outside our intended function.  We seek happiness outside of God to our own peril.  It's God's intention to bring us into conformity to the Son.  

13 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

Page 121. 

"Whoa" said Papa, who had retured from the kitchen with yet another dish. "Take it easy on those greens, young man. Those things can give you the trots if you ain't careful."

 

That's highly disrespectful to portray God as joking around about diarrhea! 

God invented diarrhea.  

13 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

Page 182

(Jesus talking with Mack.)

I have no desire to make them Christian, but to join them in thier transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my beloved.

 

Univeralist nonsense.

Probably some truth to that as the author is likely a universalist.  But it IS true that the desire of Christ is to see us transformed into sons and daughters of the Most High God.  God is relational.  This is a theme in the book.  We're invited into that relationship.  

13 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

Page 224.

(Papa talking with Mack about forgiving the man who killed his daughter)

Mack, for you to forgive this man is for you to release him to me him to me and allow me to redeem him.

 

It's seems like the underlying teaching of The Shack is a blasphemous from of fake Christianity.

This is the most powerful message of the book.  Mack refused to forgive the killer of his daughter.  That refusal was harming Mack.   And like all of us, even the killer is a broken vessel in need of redemption.    There is no sin that cannot be forgiven and no sinner that cannot be redeemed.  We are called to forgive others and that includes the killer.  Refusing to forgive others is to put on chains that will only drag us down.

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5 hours ago, William said:

I usually read reviews for any given movie before seeing it. Albert Mohler (O.P.) is pretty credible concerning the Christian essentials. Having such a poor review from multiple credible theologians helped me decide to pass on the book and film. 

 

God bless,

William 

I agree however you'd probably like Rouser's book on the shack.  The Shack is not all bad and since a lot of people are reading it, the only way to have conversations with those folks (like the two at my Bible study) is to be aware of what's said in the book.   Two friends read it and like it a lot.  It became a problem at our Bible study and prompted me to read the book too.  Only after reading Finding God In the Shack (Rouser is a theologian) did I find a way to understand the book in a deeper way.  

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Posted (edited)

I suppose there are many books, for instance 50 Shades of Gray, that a lot a people have read and seen in the movie. Now I do not have to read the book inorder to discuss it or go to the show to understand its pure junk.

 

Just because some controversial book or movie comes up the line, a Christian ought to know that some things are unworthy to see or read.  In the end their financial support encourages these writers and movie makers to make more crap that does a lot to challenge the Bible and in the end becomes a stumbling block for many to reject Christ and their belief in the God of the Bible. 

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Read:

The Shack

The Shack Revisited

Finding God in the Shack

 

Critical books (planning to read - they are on my kindle)

Burning Down The Shack

The Shack:  A Journey From Pain, to Truth, to Error

The Shack:  Helpful or Heritical

 

Also on my "to read" list is

Lies Paul Young believes about God

 

You see, friends have not only read this book but they've gone to conferences where Paul Young has spoken.  So I want to know the issue from all sides.  

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6 hours ago, Willie T said:

I thank My God that the god they have taught you at your church is not the one who loves me.  You don't seem to have understood one thing the author was saying.

What the author is saying is pretty clear and in direct contradiction with scripture. If your god is the same god portryed in the shack them clearly you do not believe in the God of the Bible, who punishes sin and says of himself that he is the only way to the Father.

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1 hour ago, Papa Zoom said:

This is true about sin.  It does devour from the inside.  It ruins us.  It (sin) is living outside our intended function.  We seek happiness outside of God to our own peril.  It's God's intention to bring us into conformity to the Son.  

God invented diarrhea.  

Probably some truth to that as the author is likely a universalist.  But it IS true that the desire of Christ is to see us transformed into sons and daughters of the Most High God.  God is relational.  This is a theme in the book.  We're invited into that relationship.  

This is the most powerful message of the book.  Mack refused to forgive the killer of his daughter.  That refusal was harming Mack.   And like all of us, even the killer is a broken vessel in need of redemption.    There is no sin that cannot be forgiven and no sinner that cannot be redeemed.  We are called to forgive others and that includes the killer.  Refusing to forgive others is to put on chains that will only drag us down.

God punishes sin, that is an undeniable fact from Scripture.

 

The book doesn't talk about bringing us to conformity to the Son, it talks of the Jesus hoping to join us on our own spiritual journey to the Father in whatever way we go. There is no way to the Father except through the Son, Jesus Christ.

 

You ignore the fact it's disrespectful to portray God as joking around about diarrhea. God is Holy!

 

You ignore what the book is actually saying, again. God does not need us to allow him to redeem anyone.

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1 hour ago, Innerfire89 said:

God punishes sin, that is an undeniable fact from Scripture.

 

The book doesn't talk about bringing us to conformity to the Son, it talks of the Jesus hoping to join us on our own spiritual journey to the Father in whatever way we go. There is no way to the Father except through the Son, Jesus Christ.

 

You ignore the fact it's disrespectful to portray God as joking around about diarrhea. God is Holy!

 

You ignore what the book is actually saying, again. God does not need us to allow him to redeem anyone.

There are consequences for sin.  But the woman caught in adultery wasn't condemned; she was told to go and stop her sinning.   God is about restoration, not punishment.  IF we refuse His Grace, then there are consequences.

 

I don't think it's disrespectful to chuckle at the "God" character talking about a particular food giving one the toots or whatever.  

 

I don't ignore what the actual book is saying and I never suggested God needs us to allow Him to redeem others.   I believe my point was that we are called to forgive and to love.  This is impossible without the Spirit of God at work in us.  But it is required of us.

 

I would never promote reading The Shack but I would promote reading Randal Rauser's book on the shack.  It's an interesting read from a theological perspective.  The Shack isn't a theological book but certainly there is a theological slant behind the writing.   Since others have read the book, I would want to use the elements of the story to point them in the right direction regarding the nature of the Trinity and our relationship to sin, repentance, forgiveness, and restoration in Christ.  Calling it toilet paper shuts down the discussion and isn't helpful to anyone.  But discussing the elements in the book, both good and bad, can be helpful.  However, people who have not read the book really can't fully appreciate the story in the same way as someone who has read the book.  Yes, there are problems.  But people have read it and for that reason I'm keeping an open mind in order to have a dialogue with others who have read the book.

 

I can tell you this:  I think the one of the reasons people liked that book so much is that God is loving and kind and caring for a lost son (Mack).  I grew up learning about an angry God that can't be in the presence of sin and that I'm basically scum and will burn in hell unless I have Jesus as my savior.  That is not good news IMO.   I think God is a loving God who cares about His creation and has been working to restore it to His original design.  We who believe in Jesus and genuinely follow Him are adopted sons and daughters of the Most High.  That is good news.  The Gospel is a positive message of God's love and perhaps the book is a bit of a push back against the negative God many grew up with.  

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2 hours ago, Papa Zoom said:

There are consequences for sin.  But the woman caught in adultery wasn't condemned; she was told to go and stop her sinning.   God is about restoration, not punishment.  IF we refuse His Grace, then there are consequences.

 

I don't think it's disrespectful to chuckle at the "God" character talking about a particular food giving one the toots or whatever.  

 

I don't ignore what the actual book is saying and I never suggested God needs us to allow Him to redeem others.   I believe my point was that we are called to forgive and to love.  This is impossible without the Spirit of God at work in us.  But it is required of us.

 

I would never promote reading The Shack but I would promote reading Randal Rauser's book on the shack.  It's an interesting read from a theological perspective.  The Shack isn't a theological book but certainly there is a theological slant behind the writing.   Since others have read the book, I would want to use the elements of the story to point them in the right direction regarding the nature of the Trinity and our relationship to sin, repentance, forgiveness, and restoration in Christ.  Calling it toilet paper shuts down the discussion and isn't helpful to anyone.  But discussing the elements in the book, both good and bad, can be helpful.  However, people who have not read the book really can't fully appreciate the story in the same way as someone who has read the book.  Yes, there are problems.  But people have read it and for that reason I'm keeping an open mind in order to have a dialogue with others who have read the book.

 

I can tell you this:  I think the one of the reasons people liked that book so much is that God is loving and kind and caring for a lost son (Mack).  I grew up learning about an angry God that can't be in the presence of sin and that I'm basically scum and will burn in hell unless I have Jesus as my savior.  That is not good news IMO.   I think God is a loving God who cares about His creation and has been working to restore it to His original design.  We who believe in Jesus and genuinely follow Him are adopted sons and daughters of the Most High.  That is good news.  The Gospel is a positive message of God's love and perhaps the book is a bit of a push back against the negative God many grew up with.  

God punishes all sin, not all are condemned, but all sin is punished. The reason Christ died on the cross is because he took our punishment for sin upon himself, God is justice and absolutely punishes sin.

 

The character reresnting God joking about the trots, that's diarrhea. Does that portray God as Holy, of the utmost respect?

 

But the book does say that God needs us to allow him to redeem others.

 

At least your not promoing the book, but it needs to be exposed for the false teachings within it in. It should be shown for the toilet paper that it is so people aren't being exposed to it's false teachings.

 

That is what the Bible teaches, that we are all condemned sinners, saved by God's grace, only because of God mercy are we saved, because we are in fact worthless. Romans 3:9-18.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

God punishes all sin, not all are condemned, but all sin is punished. The reason Christ died on the cross is because he took our punishment for sin upon himself, God is justice and absolutely punishes sin.

 

The character reresnting God joking about the trots, that's diarrhea. Does that portray God as Holy, of the utmost respect?

 

But the book does say that God needs us to allow him to redeem others.

 

At least your not promoing the book, but it needs to be exposed for the false teachings within it in. It should be shown for the toilet paper that it is so people aren't being exposed to it's false teachings.

 

That is what the Bible teaches, that we are all condemned sinners, saved by God's grace, only because of God mercy are we saved, because we are in fact worthless. Romans 3:9-18.

 

 

You can't expose a book you haven't bothered to read.

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It isn't necessary to go totally into the garbage can in order to know whether it stinks or not.

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1 hour ago, Papa Zoom said:

You can't expose a book you haven't bothered to read.

I'm not talking about me exposing it, I'm talking about you, you should expose it for the false teachings it contains, so whoever it is you're talking to about won't be introduced to any of the false teachings in it.

 

And of course I can, I know of things that are in the book.

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