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AndThisGospel

Saved from what?

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“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..." Acts 16:31

 

My question is: "saved from what?"

 

 

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“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..." Acts 16:31

 

My question is: "saved from what?"

 

 

Hello AndThisGospel,

 

Welcome to Christforums! I hope your time and fellowship here is fruitful.

 

To answer your question. We are saved from God, by God, for God. Lemme explain, the BAD NEWS of the Gospel says, "God is good". And because God is not only good. He is also righteous. He has stated that he will punish those who are unrighteous. "Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity;" (Isaiah 13:11). Therefore, those who are unrighteous should fear God since he has the right and ability to punish.

 

Because we are guilty of having sinned we are separated from God (Isaiah 59:2), are dead in our sins (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:3), cannot please God (Rom. 3:10-11), and will suffer damnation (2 Thess. 1:9).

 

Now the remedy, "by God":

  1. Atonement: Because man is a sinner (Rom. 5:8) and cannot atone for himself it was the love of the Father that sent Jesus (1 John 4:10) to die in our place (1 Pet. 3:18) for our sins (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of the atonement, our fellowship with God is restored (Rom. 5:10).
  2. Propitiation: For the Christian, the propitiation was the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It turned away the wrath of God so that He could pass "over the sins previously committed," (Rom. 3:25). It was the Father who sent the Son to be the propitiation (1 John 4:10) for all (1 John 2:2).

Escaping God's judgment is done by receiving Christ--by trusting in what Jesus did on the cross (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Pet. 2:24).

 

God bless,

William

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for our sins (1 Pet. 2:24)

 

 

So, essentially, the believer has been saved from his sins by accepting Christ by faith? Okay, but what condemned him for his sins so that he saw his need of Christ?

 

I think you'll say God and while that might be true in a sense I'm looking for something more specific. See Gal 3:10,13,23 Rom 3:19,20/7:7

 

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So, essentially, the believer has been saved from his sins by accepting Christ by faith? Okay, but what condemned him for his sins so that he saw his need of Christ?

 

I think you'll say God and while that might be true in a sense I'm looking for something more specific. See Gal 3:10,13,23 Rom 3:19,20/7:7

 

Hi AndThisGospel,

 

Have you answered your own question?

 

While you stated by "accepting" and I said "receiving" I'm wondering whether you make a distinction between the two? If you have never thought about it, fair enough, I was just curious whether you're purposely suggesting: "consent" to receive? Romans 5:17

 

And no, we are not saved by faith, but "by Grace through faith".

 

Perhaps I should payed more attention to your use of "what" rather than "who"? I believe you answered your own question with respect to the "means" God uses.

 

Keep in mind though that the Law is also a positive form of Grace Psalm 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple"

 

Grace does not nullify the Law, Christians are not free to break the ten commandments, for example. A point which you did not make but I thought to write for certainty.

 

Scripture shows that God intends His Law to function in three ways:

  1. the law convicts us of sin Romans 3:19-20;4:15; 5:13; 7:7-11
  2. the civil use according to which the law restrains social evil Deut. 13:6-11; 19:16-21; Rom. 13:3, 4
  3. the law is that by which believers are instructed in living to righteousness out of gratitude for the grace they have received from the Lord Eph. 2:10; Matt. 28:20; John 14:15

A quote from John Calvin (1509-1564), Institutes of the Christian Religion, II.vii.6-12

 

“That the whole matter may be made clearer, let us take a succinct view of the office and use of the Moral Law. Now this office and use seems to me to consist of three parts. First, by exhibiting the righteousness of God,—in other words, the righteousness which alone is acceptable to God,—it admonishes every one of his own unrighteousness, certiorates [informs], convicts, and finally condemns him. This is necessary, in order that man, who is blind and intoxicated with self-love, may be brought at once to know and to confess his weakness and impurity…

 

Thus the Law is a kind of mirror. As in a mirror we discover any stains upon our face, so in the Law we behold, first, our impotence; then, in consequence of it, our iniquity; and, finally, the curse, as the consequence of both. He who has no power of following righteousness is necessarily plunged in the mire of iniquity, and this iniquity is immediately followed by the curse. Accordingly, the greater the transgression of which the Law convicts us, the severer the judgment to which we are exposed…

 

But while the unrighteousness and condemnation of all are attested by the law, it does not follow (if we make the proper use of it) that we are immediately to give up all hope and rush headlong on despair. No doubt, it has some such effect upon the reprobate, but this is owing to their obstinacy. With the children of God the effect is different. The Apostle testifies that the law pronounces its sentence of condemnation in order ‘that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God,’ (Rom. 3:19). In another place, however, the same Apostle declares, that ‘God has concluded them all in unbelief;’ not that he might destroy all, or allow all to perish, but that ‘he might have mercy upon all,’ (Rom. 11:32); in other words, that divesting themselves of an absurd opinion of their own virtue, they may perceive how they are wholly dependent on the hand of God; that feeling how naked and destitute they are, they may take refuge in his mercy, rely upon it, and cover themselves up entirely with it; renouncing all righteousness and merit, and clinging to mercy…

 

But even in the reprobate themselves, this first office of the law is not altogether wanting. They do not, indeed, proceed so far with the children of God as, after the flesh is cast down, to be renewed in the inner man, and revive again, but stunned by the first terror, give way to despair. Still it tends to manifest the equity of the Divine judgment, when their consciences are thus heaved upon the waves. They would always willingly carp at the judgment of God; but now, though that judgment is not manifested, still the alarm produced by the testimony of the law and of their conscience bespeaks their deserts…

 

The second office of the Law is, by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice. Such persons are curbed not because their mind is inwardly moved and affected, but because, as if a bridle were laid upon them, they refrain their hands from external acts, and internally check the depravity which would otherwise petulantly burst forth. It is true, they are not on this account either better or more righteous in the sight of God. For although restrained by terror or shame, they dare not proceed to what their mind has conceived, nor give full license to their raging lust, their heart is by no means trained to fear and obedience. Nay, the more they restrain themselves, the more they are inflamed, the more they rage and boil, prepared for any act or outbreak whatsoever were it not for the terror of the law. And not only so, but they thoroughly detest the law itself, and execrate the Lawgiver; so that if they could, they would most willingly annihilate him, because they cannot bear either his ordering what is right, or his avenging the despisers of his Majesty. The feeling of all who are not yet regenerate, though in some more, in others less lively, is, that in regard to the observance of the law, they are not led by voluntary submission, but dragged by the force of fear. Nevertheless, this forced and extorted righteousness is necessary for the good of society, its peace being secured by a provision but for which all things would be thrown into tumult and confusion…

 

To both may be applied the declaration of the Apostle in another place, that ‘The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,’ (Gal. 3:24); since there are two classes of persons, whom by its training it leads to Christ. Some (of whom we spoke in the first place), from excessive confidence in their own virtue or righteousness, are unfit to receive the grace of Christ, until they are completely humbled. This the law does by making them sensible of their misery, and so disposing them to long for what they previously imagined they did not want. Others have need of a bridle to restrain them from giving full scope to their passions, and thereby utterly losing all desire after righteousness…

 

The third use of the Law (being also the principal use, and more closely connected with its proper end) has respect to believers in whose hearts the Spirit of God already flourishes and reigns. For although the Law is written and engraven on their hearts by the finger of God, that is, although they are so influenced and actuated by the Spirit, that they desire to obey God, there are two ways in which they still profit in the Law. For it is the best instrument for enabling them daily to learn with greater truth and certainty what that will of the Lord is which they aspire to follow, and to confirm them in this knowledge; just as a servant who desires with all his soul to approve himself to his master, must still observe, and be careful to ascertain his master’s dispositions, that he may comport himself in accommodation to them. Let none of us deem ourselves exempt from this necessity, for none have as yet attained to such a degree of wisdom, as that they may not, by the daily instruction of the Law, advance to a purer knowledge of the Divine will. Then, because we need not doctrine merely, but exhortation also, the servant of God will derive this further advantage from the Law: by frequently meditating upon it, he will be excited to obedience, and confirmed in it, and so drawn away from the slippery paths of sin. In this way must the saints press onward, since, however great the alacrity with which, under the Spirit, they hasten toward righteousness, they are retarded by the sluggishness of the flesh, and make less progress than they ought. The Law acts like a whip to the flesh, urging it on as men do a lazy sluggish ass. Even in the case of a spiritual man, inasmuch as he is still burdened with the weight of the flesh, the Law is a constant stimulus, pricking him forward when he would indulge in sloth.”

 

God bless,

William

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See Gal 3:10,13,23 Rom 3:19,20/7:7

 

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law (Pentateuch)....Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...before faith came, we were imprisoned under the law." Gal 3:10,13,23

 

"...We know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world (the sinful human race) may become guilty before God. Therefore by the works of the law no one will be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin....If it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'" Rom 3:19,20/7:7

 

 

 

 

 

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we are not saved by faith, but "by Grace through faith".

 

Correct. Faith is not the Savior. Our faith/trust is always in something. The Christian has placed his trust and faith in Christ Jesus. He has made Christ his righteousness. He has received the atonement.

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Grace does not nullify the Law, Christians are not free to break the ten commandments, for example. A point which you did not make but I thought to write for certainty.

 

Yes, grace didn't do away with the law, yet the believer isn't under the law.

 

I guess this is really another subject that I might discuss in another thread, but for now I would like to keep the subject to my initial question.

 

Scripture shows that God intends His Law to function in three ways:
  1. the law convicts us of sin Romans 3:19-20;4:15; 5:13; 7:7-11
  2. the civil use according to which the law restrains social evil Deut. 13:6-11; 19:16-21; Rom. 13:3, 4
  3. the law is that by which believers are instructed in living to righteousness out of gratitude for the grace they have received from the Lord Eph. 2:10; Matt. 28:20; John 14:15

I have no quarrel with the above, however, Christ primarily came to save the fallen human race from under the law.

 

Gal 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (why?) 5 To redeem (save) them that were under the law..."

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Scripture shows that God intends His Law to function in three ways:
  1. the law convicts us of sin Romans 3:19-20;4:15; 5:13; 7:7-11
  2. the civil use according to which the law restrains social evil Deut. 13:6-11; 19:16-21; Rom. 13:3, 4
  3. the law is that by which believers are instructed in living to righteousness out of gratitude for the grace they have received from the Lord Eph. 2:10; Matt. 28:20; John 14:15

The primary reason Christ came to this earth, via the incarnation, was to redeem the fallen human race from under law.

 

Gal 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 toredeem them that were under the law..."

 

Matthew 1:20 ..."do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

Edited by AndThisGospel
additional scripture

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Yes, grace didn't do away with the law, yet the believer isn't under the law.

 

I think you mean to say that we are not under the Law for Justification.

 

Samuel Bolton (1606-1654) nailed it when he said,

 

The Law sends us to the Gospel that we may be Justified; The Gospel sends us to the Law again to inquire what is our duty as those who are Justified.

 

Would you agree?

 

God bless,

William

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I think you mean to say that we are not under the Law for Justification.

 

Then we are under the law for our sanctification?

 

Samuel Bolton (1606-1654) nailed it when he said, "The Law sends us to the Gospel that we may be Justified; The Gospel sends us to the Law again to inquire what is our duty as those who are Justified." Would you agree?

 

No, I would not agree.

 

Can we agree that the gospel is what Christ did in our fallen Adamic birth, life and death? If so then "in Christ" we already stand justified, sanctified and glorified. See 1 Cor 1:30

 

 

 

 

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“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..." Acts 16:31

 

My question is: "saved from what?"

 

Matthew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[fn] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him,[fn] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

Ephesians 2:4-10

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

So we are saved FROM 'everlasting punishment' because we have been created in Christ Jesus for good works.

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Then we are under the law for our sanctification?

 

 

 

No, I would not agree.

 

Can we agree that the gospel is what Christ did in our fallen Adamic birth, life and death? If so then "in Christ" we already stand justified, sanctified and glorified. See 1 Cor 1:30

 

 

 

 

You'll have to excuse me because I am leaving the thread.

 

God bless,

William

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You'll have to excuse me because I am leaving the thread.

 

God bless,

William

 

Please come back as soon as possible.

 

Robert

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So we are saved FROM 'everlasting punishment' because we have been created in Christ Jesus for good works.

 

"The curse of the law" results in "everlasting punishment".

 

This leads to another question: According to Gal 3:13* Christ, as the son of man, took our curse - i.e., our punishment. Did Christ experience "everlasting punishment"?

 

* "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having becomea curse for us..."

 

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Hi ATG, first off, I see you are new here so, WELCOME TO CF :) That said, I hope you don't mind me jumping in somewhat blindly here because I really don't know how much time I have tonight. You said:

 

Then we are under the law for our sanctification?

 

To say that we are, "under the Law", is code for saying that we need to keep the Law to be saved. According to that understanding then, those who are under Grace/saved by Grace are no longer under the Law, in justification or sanctification.

 

.... "in Christ" we already stand justified, sanctified and glorified. See 1 Cor 1:30

 

While that may be true (well, those who are "in Christ" are justified .. and 'will be' sanctified/glorified as a result), if someone who 'says' they've become a Christian, continues on in/quickly returns to, the sinful lifestyle they were leading prior to making that claim, then their "claim" should be regarded as nothing more than that :eek:

 

Good works, the choice to live a holy/righteous life (rather that a sinful one), and the continual desire to obey and please God in all that we do/say/think, is the RESULT of our salvation, not its cause. These are the things that ACCOMPANY salvation, and they are our only sure evidence/justification/demonstration that we are who we say we are (God, of course, needs no such evidence as He knows all of our hearts better than we do)!

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is NEVER alone" ~John Calvin

 

So, if we believe that we have been saved, but the things that accompany salvation (good works/a changed lifestyle/the desire to please God in all that we do) are not present, then we need to consider the very real possibility that we are not Christians because we were never saved to begin with.

 

Yours in Christ,

David

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To say that we are, "under the Law", is code for saying that we need to keep the Law to be saved.

 

Everyone who has reached the age of accountability and has not accepted the righteousness of Christ thinks of themselves as good - e.g., see Luke 5:32

 

To reject Christ is to remain under law. To be under law is to be under the dominion of the law.

 

The terms of the law are, Obey and live: "If a man do them, he shall by them live" (Eze. 20: 11; Lev. 18: 5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them" (Deut. 27: 26/Gal 3:10), which is "disobey and die".

Edited by AndThisGospel

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Everyone who has reached the age of accountability and has not accepted the righteousness of Christ thinks of themselves as good - e.g., see Luke 5:32

Luke 5

32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

 

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far with v32 ATG. There were the self-righteous Pharisaical types in Jesus' day to be sure, but there were also many who knew they were sinners .. e.g. Luke 5:8. Many were/are aware that they are lost and without hope, and they are looking for a way out (which is the reason for His commands, yes .. e.g. Matthew 9:37-38; Mark 16:15).

 

I believe we are in agreement about the Law and what it means to be "under the Law", so has the question from your earlier post, "Are we under the law for our sanctification?", been answered to your satisfaction?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours and His,

David

 

 

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Okay, so my conclusion is we are saved from "the curse of the law", which is the 2nd death.

 

Hi again ATG, I believe, "the curse of the law", is found principally in its requirement of us to keep perfectly, that which cannot be kept at all .. James 2:10-11 :eek: The good news is, there's a remedy that is found in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone (who kept the Law perfectly for us).

 

The 2nd Death concerns eternal punishment, from which there is no remedy, no escape.

 

We are saved from the wrath of God (just like William said earlier, "we are saved from God, by God, for God" :)).

 

Yours in Christ,

David

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Let's talk a little about the Law. Just for giggles, let's restrict our focus to just the 10 commandments part of the law. The problem with any one of the 10 commandments is not that they are bad, it is that we cannot keep all ten 100% perfectly (and there are a lot more than 10 laws) and even if we could keep the 10 commandments, that would still be inadequate to keep us from being guilty of committing the sin described by that that commandment. Let me give two specific examples from scripture to illustrate.

 

Deuteronomy 5:17 “You must not murder."

 

Matthew 5:21-22 "You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell."

 

From these two verses, it is clearly possible to never physically murder another human being, thus obeying the letter of the law of Deuteronomy 5, and yet, to be angry with someone and be guilty of the sin of murder and subject to judgement for that sin. Clearly, it is not that the Law against murdering people is a bad idea, but rather, the problem is that the Law cannot keep you righteous. This is OK, because that was never its purpose. The purpose of the OT Law was, and remains, to show us our sin and our need for a savior.

 

 

Deuteronomy 5:18 “You must not commit adultery."

 

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

Once again, it is possible to obey the letter of the Law and even to never TOUCH any woman, and to be guilty of the sin of adultery in your heart. Again the Law is not bad, it is inadequate to guarantee righteousness and is only a vehicle to teach us of our sin and our need for a Savior.

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The 2nd Death concerns eternal punishment, from which there is no remedy, no escape.

 

Yes, for those "under the law" there is no escape if they continue in their unbelief. BTW, as you know, Christ tasted the 2nd death for all men.

 

 

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The problem with any one of the 10 commandments is not that they are bad, it is that we cannot keep all ten 100% perfectly (and there are a lot more than 10 laws) and even if we could keep the 10 commandments, that would still be inadequate to keep us from being guilty of committing the sin described by that that commandment. Let me give two specific examples from scripture to illustrate.

 

Deuteronomy 5:17 “You must not murder."

 

Matthew 5:21-22 "You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell."

 

From these two verses, it is clearly possible to never physically murder another human being, thus obeying the letter of the law of Deuteronomy 5, and yet, to be angry with someone and be guilty of the sin of murder and subject to judgement for that sin. Clearly, it is not that the Law against murdering people is a bad idea, but rather, the problem is that the Law cannot keep you righteous. This is OK, because that was never its purpose. The purpose of the OT Law was, and remains, to show us our sin and our need for a savior.

 

Very good points....Very good!

 

 

Deuteronomy 5:18 “You must not commit adultery."

 

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

Once again, it is possible to obey the letter of the Law and even to never TOUCH any woman, and to be guilty of the sin of adultery in your heart. Again the Law is not bad, it is inadequate to guarantee righteousness and is only a vehicle to teach us of our sin and our need for a Savior.

 

Excellent!

 

 

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As I said, very good observation. That is why Paul said, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Rom 3:28

 

Again, like you stated, there's nothing wrong with the law. The problem is with us. Because of Adam's sin we are born bent-to-self. We are not born with "agape" and as you probably know it takes "agape" to keep the law. See Romans 13:10

 

The law demands one thing: Perfect, unerring performance in deed, word and thought. Anything outside this brings the curse.

 

Also, the law doesn't grade on the curve. There's no partial credit coming from God and His holy law. We are not saved partially by Christ and partially by our law performance. The latter is what the Judaizers in Paul's day taught.

 

Does that mean that no change is seen in believers who are resting in the finished work of Christ for their tickets to heaven? Of course not.

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...as you know, Christ tasted the 2nd death for all men.

 

Where does the Bible tell us that?

 

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Does that mean that no change is seen in believers who are resting in the finished work of Christ for their tickets to heaven? Of course not.

 

Proof:

 

"You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you." John 15:3

 

Please note that in the holy history of Christ we are "complete in Him". (see Col 2:10) In Him we have been cleansed from all sin. In Him we are "holy, and blameless" (Col 1:22).

 

Now, after receiving Christ's finished work, we are to "Abide in [Christ], and [He in us]. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

 

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