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Truthseeker

Exegeting Matthew 18:18-29

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Matthew 18, 18-29

 

I'm catholic and I would like to know how protestants exegete this passage from Matthew. Why is it that sola fide isn't mentioned? Why is it that Jesus refers to the commandments for eternal salvation? Why is that Jesus at the end of the passage says that anyone who leaves family for him will be rewarded? Thank you for your time.

 

Sincerely Jay

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Matthew 18, 18-29

 

I'm catholic and I would like to know how protestants exegete this passage from Matthew. Why is it that sola fide isn't mentioned? Why is it that Jesus refers to the commandments for eternal salvation? Why is that Jesus at the end of the passage says that anyone who leaves family for him will be rewarded? Thank you for your time.

 

Sincerely Jay

 

Hi Jay,

 

Welcome to CF!

 

Can you double check the references you're making? They seemingly are made between two different paragraphs. Matthew 18:15-20 and Matthew 18:21-35 begins another. Also, how have you formed your questions from those two paragraphs? Another words, why these two paragraphs when attempting to address Sola Fide?

 

Just asking for a little bit of clarification, Jay.

 

God bless,

William

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Luke 18:18-29 might be the OP's intended text, it does mention subjects inquired of in the OP.

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Matthew 18, 18-29

 

I'm catholic and I would like to know how protestants exegete this passage from Matthew. Why is it that sola fide isn't mentioned? Why is it that Jesus refers to the commandments for eternal salvation? Why is that Jesus at the end of the passage says that anyone who leaves family for him will be rewarded? Thank you for your time.

 

Sincerely Jay

 

 

So Jay, what are the commandments? Aren’t they a Covenant? According to the Lord God who gave them says they are. (Exo:34:28) of which humans do not have the nature to fulfill to the satisfaction of God who gave them, notably only God has the nature to fulfill. Therefore, salvation isn’t in human nature fulfilling the covenant, but God’s nature fulfilling the covenant in the flesh, of which God is well aware of. Trust and believe that, (faith) and salvation is near, trust human nature to bring salvation and your hopes are dashed against the disappointment.

 

The Lord our God is Faithful to the faithful. Hence no matter how you slice it, through faith is the answer. Because for the Gentile it’s by Grace through faith to be born again and receive the Life of Christ, which is the Life that has the nature to fulfill the commandments that the Almighty allows, and requires forgiveness therein.

Therefore, as James says no works no faith. For the nature of the life lived is evident in the activities thereof that are like Christ, if one has received the Life that is capable. The faith is required first before there can be works accordingly. But don't be fooled by what ought to be a Christian or what a Christian is like philosophies and definitions. Jesus is the culmination of what, the Life received is, manifested in the flesh in this world. add or subtract from that, and deception ensues.

 

As far as leaving a family for Jesus Christ, it usually goes the other way around. One can loss his family for his convictions in Christ. Heck Hollywood movies are always depicting some one’s relatives or spouse leaving them or requiring them to leave for something they may believe is true. so actually the believer does leave those he once trusted and lived with, only because the Life he has isn't of this world.

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Thx for reply but you don't really address why Jesus didn't answer sola fide to the rich man. Why didn't Jesus say just believe and you'll be saved?

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Thx for reply but you don't really address why Jesus didn't answer sola fide to the rich man. Why didn't Jesus say just believe and you'll be saved?

 

An Israelite understands that the Ten Commandments are a covenant were as Gentile Christians in most cases don't, and that is why Jesus didn't have to explain that part of the Israeli life to the man that already understood. Also didn't Jesus tell him to do something that wasn't in the Ten Commandments that was nearly, if not imposable for him to do? and when it was so mentioned what did Jesus say:

 

Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

 

With men it's imposable, why you say, because it's not in human nature to be able to do what is in God's nature to do. Jesus explaining and showing again, man isn't able to fulfill the Ten Commandments and any other commandment from the Word of God, to God's satisfaction for if that was so, (as you see the Ten commandment do require fulfillment to God's satisfaction before salvation can be experienced), then Jesus wouldn't of needed to come into the world from Heaven to fulfill the Covenants from Adam to the rest of the Torah in the Son of man to God the Father's satisfaction for us. Jesus, basically speaking in todays terms, fulfilled our part of the contract so that we wouldn't be lacking what is required to be in the Presence of God in peace with God. hence as Jesus said when asked what is God's work, its to believe:

 

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

so the rich man would have to come to the conclusion knowing his own heart on the matter, that it would take the strength of God to overcome this problem of which would be the Lord's desire for the rich man to know. If it was true as the rich man said that he did the commandments, then why would Jesus put a further burden on him, unless it was to show the rich man that he couldn't fulfill God's commandments which are more than just the Ten Commandments to God's satisfaction for salvation? if one seeks salvation through Jesus Christ then through Jesus Christ he shall find it, but through his own actions and deeds he will not find salvation.

 

 

also the man didn't ask how, he could overcome such a demand, did he? could that be because he understood already? didn't the rich man come to him with the thinking he has done enough to acquire salvation? and then left knowing he was unable.

Edited by DPMartin

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Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.... . John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

Here here!

 

The things which are impossible with men is that they'd change their own spirits as to turn them from the world to God, these things are only possible with God.

 

And TruthSeeker, in Luke 18:19 Christ brought to this ruler's attention that if he understood himself aright in calling Jesus good that, in that effect, the ruler called him God. The man asked what should we do to inherit eternal life? This implies a belief of an eternal life unlike atheists and infidels which haven't such a belief, and they are quite unwilling to comply with any terms that it may be made sure as believers that are not devoted to the world and the flesh. The ruler lacked faith in what he himself stated, and Jesus quickly pointed that out in terms the ruler would understand, these things the ruler placed faith in he needed to leave behind to follow Christ. They became an obstacle to him - consider Christ's teaching here a test of faith, because the ruler went away in his idolatry.

 

Further thoughts, I have shifting beliefs that change from day to day. Though these types of beliefs are non essential to my survival here upon the earth. The essential beliefs I hold to this mortal life prevent me from jumping in front of a car or from a tall building, because I believe I will die. However, the same applies towards eternal life, there are non essential and essential beliefs which we need know in our hearts, souls, and minds. They are key to our eternal survival, which the rich young ruler wasn't willing or able to see because he was relying upon himself and his own misconceptions, thinking himself good enough to obtain eternal life by his own works. Again, and again, with man this is impossible, save Christ Jesus. Literally, the man went away doomed, his idols - his wealth and his law keeping earned him nothing apart from faith. We are saved by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. All Glory be to God alone!!!

 

God bless,

William

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I think Jesus was pretty clear with his answer. Sola fide is not part of salvation.

 

Hello "Truthseeker",

 

I'm sure nothing would change your mind. The man loved his property more than he had loved God, otherwise he would have been willing to give up his wealth. But that wasn't the case. He had made an idol of his wealth. Furthermore, in the conversation, Christ did not teach that we are saved by the works of the Law.

 

The Bible’s message is that salvation is by grace through faith (Romans 3:20, 28; 4:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9).

 

God bless,

William

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I respect your opinion but all of what you said did not address the fact that Jesus does not mention sola fide when it comes to salvation.

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I respect your opinion but all of what you said did not address the fact that Jesus does not mention sola fide when it comes to salvation.

 

Alright "Truthseeker",

 

Why don't you share your Catholic view?

 

Right from the beginning of the conversation, Jesus is gently attempting to assist the faith of the young ruler. "Why call me good"? But, the rich young ruler diverted from the question, which began the dialogue between him and Jesus. The man failed to keep the commandments which is the working of the Law - self denial. The man withdrew from Christ because of his covetousness and failure to live up to the perfection of Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus, God, which is why the man called him good, and Jesus emphasized the point. Not as a rebuke but to assist him. But like many people, when confronted with the truth, they deviate from it.

 

There is nothing contrary to Sola Fide here in this passage.

 

God bless,

William

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My view is exactly what the passage says. If you want to get to heaven then I must follow the commandments and not just believe. Faith alone doesn't save you and Jesus makes that clear in this passage.

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My view is exactly what the passage says. If you want to get to heaven then I must follow the commandments and not just believe. Faith alone doesn't save you and Jesus makes that clear in this passage.

 

Right, let me direct you here: https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/morality-and-laws/154-all-613-laws-of-the-old-testament

 

Obviously, you think you can keep them all. What need have you for Christ?

 

God bless,

William

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My view is exactly what the passage says. If you want to get to heaven then I must follow the commandments and not just believe. Faith alone doesn't save you and Jesus makes that clear in this passage.

 

one has salvation because Jesus fulfilled the law and the Prophets, not because you think you can fulfill them in any shape or form. no man has fulfilled the Torah to the Lord God's satisfaction how is it you can? doesn't Paul say brake the least of the law you broke the whole law? and Jesus never broke the law, according to His Father in Heaven, or Jesus wouldn't have been risen. are you one who thinks himself to be Jesus? is that Glory that is reserved for the Son of God, King of Kings Lord of Lords Holy and true, yours?

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but I know I can't fulfill them, Jesus said with God all things are possible, hence I'm not going about fulfilling the law alone, I'm doing so by God's grace. Why are you trying to pit Paul's words against Jesus? The problem here is from that passage you conclude that the law is impossible to fulfill but that's not the conclusion Jesus came to. He clearly says that it IS possible with God. You are right. It is foolish to go about sanctification on your own. That's is impossible. What makesnit possible is that we collaborate with grace. Jesus emphasizes that in that passage. All things are possible with God. Also no where in scripture does God expects "perfect" fulfilment of the law and commandments. If that were the case then Jesus would never tell us to forgive our brothers 7 times 70xs.

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the conclusions you come to when exegeting that passage is so twisted. I don't see sola fide or impossible to fulfill the commandments. You didn't address why Jesus simply didn't reply sola fide. If I asked you what must I do to be saved would your response ve the same as Jesus?

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but I know I can't fulfill them, Jesus said with God all things are possible, hence I'm not going about fulfilling the law alone, I'm doing so by God's grace. Why are you trying to pit Paul's words against Jesus? The problem here is from that passage you conclude that the law is impossible to fulfill but that's not the conclusion Jesus came to. He clearly says that it IS possible with God. You are right. It is foolish to go about sanctification on your own. That's is impossible. What makesnit possible is that we collaborate with grace. Jesus emphasizes that in that passage. All things are possible with God. Also no where in scripture does God expects "perfect" fulfilment of the law and commandments. If that were the case then Jesus would never tell us to forgive our brothers 7 times 70xs.

 

G'day Truthseeker,

 

You know you can't fulfill them? Then you suggest that by faith you must rely on God?

 

Jesus says all things are possible with God. How do you come to a synergistic view from that? You are dead in sin and trespasses, by your own admission you cannot keep the law. How is a dead man supposed to collaborate with God? What can a dead man do for himself? The equivalent to what you're suggesting is like having Jesus walk into the tomb of Lazarus and Lazarus responding by saying, bro, do you ever knock? Knock why? So Lazarus can collaborate with God?

 

Second of all, your throwing around the term Sanctification, which I am sure you'll agree that the more sanctified (progressive) the person is, the more conformed he is to the image of his Savior, the more he must recoil against every lack of conformity to the holiness of God. There is no question on that part, however, the resulting Glorification is not possible here upon this earth while in the flesh, which I'm sure as a Catholic you'll disagree. But, what you'll suggest flies in the face of the Scriptures you are asking about.

 

Lastly, you say God does not expect perfect fulfillment of the law and commandments, but now you're ignoring the very same verses you wanted to discuss. What did Jesus point out to the rich young ruler?

 

You have not answered my question directly. But you have acknowledged that you cannot keep all the commandments. What need have you of Jesus? And please don't go away sorrowful like the rich young ruler.

 

Either you're going to acknowledge that you are not dead, but good and only in need of a good teacher - Pelagianism

or, you're going to acknowledge that you are only sick, and need of a good doctor - Arminianism

or, you're going to acknowledge that you are dead in sin and trespasses, and in need of a savior - "Guess what that is?"

 

Only one makes God the only option, which all things become possible, and brings all Glory to God alone.

 

God bless,

William

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the conclusions you come to when exegeting that passage is so twisted. I don't see sola fide or impossible to fulfill the commandments. You didn't address why Jesus simply didn't reply sola fide. If I asked you what must I do to be saved would your response ve the same as Jesus?

 

Don't blame us for your lack of comprehension! And have you even read the responses made to you in entirety? With all the errors in your typing it looks like you're quickly and with haste trying to defend your position.

 

God bless,

William

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btw Jesus looked on the rich man with love for he lived a life of obedience under the commandments. Jesus did not scold him for trying to keep the commandments like you are trying to do.

the rich man responded to Jesus that he had kept the commandments since youth, Jesus commended him and looked upon him with love which means that Jesus approved of his life. Take a good look at Mark 17, 27, it says WITH God (synergism) everything is possible. Now if the passage concluded that the commandments are impossible to obey as you contend then why does Peter in the following verses challenges Jesus on what they did to follow Him. In verse 30 Jesus promises eternal life to those who actually sacrifices everything for him. You see, it's not just about believing, it's about showing proof through your actions that you truly believe.

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btw Jesus looked on the rich man with love for he lived a life of obedience under the commandments. Jesus did not scold him for trying to keep the commandments like you are trying to do.

 

Obviously you have not read the previous posts. That was stated already. If you cannot read the responses made to you and address the points one by one refrain from posting or moderation will help you out.

 

William

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It's no secret, protestants hate catholics because they rely on a faith that works. Works to protestants are scandalous. Everything has to revolve around the profession of faith and not it's living out in love. I disagree and the bible verses prove that. No where is faith mentioned with the word "alone" in the bible. That was added by Luther in order to divorce works from faith. He completely tore asunder what God had joined through the new covenant.

I did read your replies. I'm just using your conclusions. Your conclusion is that whoever fulfills the law is a legalist and wasting their time. Every protestant I talk to looks down on me because I live my life of faith through works. I just don't profess the faith, I live it, and living it is just as vital to my salvation. I apologize if I'm coming off as rude but I wasn't trying to be.

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If you want to talk about purgatory I would love to but changing the subject won't convince me of sola fide. Tell me where does Jesus use the qualifier "alone" along side faith or believe in scripture? Give me a single passage that would suggest the exclusivity of slavation to a mere profession of faith void of any sanctification. If you do then I will convert to protestantism on the spot.

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If you want to talk about purgatory I would love to but changing the subject won't convince me of sola fide. Tell me where does Jesus use the qualifier "alone" along side faith or believe in scripture? Give me a single passage that would suggest the exclusivity of slavation to a mere profession of faith void of any sanctification. If you do then I will convert to protestantism on the spot.

 

But if we did that you'd be one of us.

 

William

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I respect your opinion but all of what you said did not address the fact that Jesus does not mention sola fide when it comes to salvation.

 

Hi Truthseeker, the Bible doesn't "mention" the Trinity by name either, and yet it is the most orthodox of Christian beliefs, is it not? The Bible does have quite a bit to say concerning sola fide, even though it doesn't use that particular phrase. Here are just a few examples from the Lord, St. Paul, and St. John, that come to mind (in no particular order);

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9
not as a result of works
, so that no one may boast. ~Ephesians 2

 

5 He saved us,
not on the basis of deeds
which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. ~Titus 3

 

5 But to the one who
does not work
, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. ~Romans 4

 

28 For we maintain that a man is
justified by faith apart from works
of the Law. ~Romans 3

 

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works
, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity. ~2 Timothy 1:8-9

 

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who
believes
, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed
from faith to faith
; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” ~Romans 1

 

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
believes
in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. ~John 3

 

18 “He who
believes
in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ~John 3

 

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you,
he who hears
My word,
and believes
Him who sent Me,
has eternal life
, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. ~John 5

 

31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that
by believing
you may have life in His name. ~John 20

 

13 These things I have written to you who
believe
in the name of the Son of God, so that you may
know
that you have eternal life. ~1 John 5

Consider carefully what both DPMartin and William told you above, and what these Scriptures tell you, of course.

 

I have a question for you about keeping the law and how salvation can result from it. Here's how the Lord summarizes the law in it's entirety.

37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’

38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ~Matthew 22

Have you ever, EVEN ONCE, really and truly "loved the Lord your God with ALL of your heart, and with ALL of your soul, and with ALL of your mind, and loved your neighbor AS YOURSELF?

 

The question is rhetorical because only One Man ever has (which I know you know). As DPMartin has already mentioned:

10 For
whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all
.

11 For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become
a transgressor of the law
. ~James 2

"Lawbreakers" CANNOT be saved because they (we) haven't, "kept the commandments", any of them. But thankfully, there is Someone who has, and He did so on our behalf :)

 

Yours in Christ,

David

 

 

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that

we might become the righteousness of God in Him"

2 Corinthians 5:21

 

Edited by David Lee
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