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Gismys

The offer of salvation through faith is given to ""all"" who believe. This belief results in eternal salvation:

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The offer of salvation through faith is given to ""all"" who believe. This belief results in eternal salvation:

 

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to ""all"" people. Titus 2:11

 

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that ""whoever"" believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

 

For this is the will of My Father, that ""everyone"" who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:40)

 

 

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ""all"" men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

 

 

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for ""all"" to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

 

 

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ""all"" men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10)

 

 

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to ""all"" men, (Titus 2:11)And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ""all"" men to Myself." (John 12:32)

 

 

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ""all"" men. (Romans 5:18)

 

 

For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for ""all""; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. (Romans 6:10)

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)

 

 

For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for ""all"", therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:15)

 

 

For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for ""all"" when He offered up Himself. (Hebrews 7:26-27)

 

 

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for ""all"", having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:11-12)

 

 

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for ""all"". (Hebrews 10:10)

 

 

For Christ also died for sins once for ""all"", the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1 Peter 3:18)

 

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Hi Gismys, while I agree that there is a sense in which God, "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked" .. Ezekiel 33:11, and desires that all men would be saved, the reality is, that's not going to happen. There's also no "guess work" on God's part about who will and who will not come to faith in Christ. He knew that long before we were born, before He laid the foundations of the Earth, in fact. So while the superabundant value of Christ's life and death is more than sufficient to cover the sins of every man and woman who's ever lived, that's not what most of the verses you posited are referring to!

 

Rather, most of these verses speak of all men w/o distinction (Jews 'AND' Greeks, men of all 'types', from every tribe, tongue, and nation), not ... all men w/o exception. I'm not going to go over all of these, but let's take a look at a few of the verses anyway, starting from the top:

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to ""all"" people.

This verse's "ALL" means, all men w/o distinction, which I will grant you seems a bit more obvious when read from a translation such as the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB, and even the NLT and NIV84, which basically all translate v11 as, "The grace of God appeared, bringing salvation to all men". So unless you are a universalist ..... are you a universalist?

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that ""whoever"" believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (
)

This isn't just "whosoever", it's "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES", IOW, ALL .."who believe" .. and no one else ;)

For this is the will of My Father, that ""everyone"" who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (
)

This verse's "everyone" is ALSO "qualified", IOW, it's "EVERYONE .. WHO BELIEVES". This verse is not speaking of all men w/o exception!

 

Yours in Christ,

David

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by David Lee
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The offer of salvation through faith is given to ""all"" who believe. This belief results in eternal salvation:

 

Tell me please HOW WOULD YOU KNOW who believes??? Maybe they are having a bad day and acting badly. Maybe they are just giving lip service and merely speaking the words "I believe" You can know their intents, their understandings of God??

 

I found something very interesting while studying over the years.........MAN STATES.....WHO BELIEVES". This verse is not speaking of all men

Yet, there is a verse in the New Testament that states............ALL LIVING SOULS WILL BOW TO THE FATHER & CONFESS with their mouths THE SON.............which probably means YOU personally won't see it. So NOW WHAT? We continue to believe what flesh tells us about God or what God's Word states as Divine truth?

 

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Hi Gismys, while I agree that there is a sense in which God, "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked" .. Ezekiel 33:11 Hi there Worm :>). I happen to notice something 2day that I have NEVER really notice B 4. In the OLD TESTAMENT the Chosen are begging God to do something with the Wicker People and throughout all the generations of the OLD TESTAMENT this was done..................But if you notice in the NEW TESTAMENT....God decided just to FORGIVE through Jesus and we were re=purchased by our Creator.....Bcause All things (humankind) were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. So like it or not ALL WERE HEAL BY HIS STRIPS just like the Bible claims. I think JESUS is waiting for us to be as him in the world.....do good deeds, said kind words, have compassion, willing help a stranger and aid a friend and handle your own business by not attempting to DOMINATE another living soul living. I have no doubt if this was done by his followers they world would be a better place. Jesus give us all the tools we need....we just aren't using them and we are look behind us...N the pass 2 2 much.

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And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ""all"" men to Myself." (John 12:32)

If we accept your argument that "all" means literally all, then this one verse is a lie. Jesus WAS lifted up, however absolutely ALL men have not been drawn to him. I can guarantee you that there exist people who have not yielded to Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Since this statement in John was made by Jesus and, by your interpretation, is a lie, then Jesus lied. He is not, therefore, the sinless sacrifice. We are all, consequently, still damned.

 

... Or you have misunderstood what he was saying.

 

I leave it to you to decide which is more probable.

 

 

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All men "are" offered salvation but many choose to reject it. Their choice!

 

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:18-22

 

Little sin loving men have no excuse.

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All men "are" offered salvation but many choose to reject it. Their choice!

 

What makes you think the natural man can "choose" otherwise? Do you believe man has an autonomous will Gismy? I'm giving you a choice to flap your arms like a bird to fly and reach the heavens. The choice is yours. Are you capable? despite your choosing to go against your human nature?

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Yes!!! Man was created in God's image with freewill(choice) we are all free to choose God or satan,good or evil,right or wrong,light or darkness=all our choice!

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Yes!!! Man was created in God's image with freewill(choice) we are all free to choose God or satan,good or evil,right or wrong,light or darkness=all our choice!

 

So there is no necessity for Jesus Christ? Man is righteous (according to you). He just needs a good moral teacher but is quite capable of achieving holiness on his own. You obviously reject original sin and the doctrine of Total Depravity? How about the necessity of the atonement and propitiation of Christ?

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ll/pelagianism

 

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Wow!! "ALL" Men are sinners in need of Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Believe confess repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and live your life as a son of God.

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Wow!! "ALL" Men are sinners in need of Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Believe confess repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and live your life as a son of God.

 

You're contradicting yourself. If ALL men are sinners, then they must have a sin nature? How can man act contrary to his sin nature if he is influenced by sin throughout all his members?

 

The bad news is our God is good. Our God is holy. That is horrible news for the sinner. What does John 3 say is a necessity Gismy? The conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus? How must God intervene in a sinner's life despite man's choosing?

 

If God is sovereign Gismy, and chooses to save a man that is influenced by sin and that man rejects Him - who is sovereign Gismy? God or man? Which is Sovereign? If God chooses a man and a man says no isn't man sovereign according to you, Gismy?

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Yes!!! All men are sinners because they "choose" to live in sin but all men are free to choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and live their lives as sons of God=all their choice!

The "good" news is our God is good and offers salvation to all that will choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

God will not force anyone to choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

It is not God's will that any perish but thousands do perish each day by their own choice!

 

 

Hey!! Almost church time here in sunny southern USA======LATER!!!

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Yes!!! All men are sinners because they "choose" to live in sin but all men are free to choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and live their lives as sons of God=all their choice!

The "good" news is our God is good and offers salvation to all that will choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

God will not force anyone to choose to believe confess repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

It is not God's will that any perish but thousands do perish each day by their own choice!

 

 

Hey!! Almost church time here in sunny southern USA======LATER!!!

Respectfully, I wasn't. I was incapable of even comprehending God as anything but a fictitious human construct at best, or an amoral tyrant at worst. In the statistically unlikely event that God existed, he had a great deal of evil to answer for and every 'moral' human being should actively be seeking to oppose any being capable of ending human suffering, but too indifferent to bother doing anything about it. That was my world as I raced towards distruction ... then God intervened and 'knocked me off my horse on the road to Damascus'.

 

It it was never about my choice to follow God.

It was always about God's choice to lay claim on me.

(for reasons that I will never comprehend).

 

6 minutes before service starts here in Florida. :)

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For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:18-22

[TABLE=align: center, border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0]

[TR]

[TD]

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting "anyone" to perish, but "everyone" to come to repentance

2Peter 3:9.

 

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

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My posts should not have been moved to this forum as I TOTALY REJECT this idea and opinion of little men== the view that all human beings and fallen angels will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God in Heaven and the New Jerusalem.= I TOTALY REJECT

All have choice=believe or reject as God will not force anyone to accept His love and mercy.

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My posts should not have been moved to this forum as I TOTALY REJECT this idea and opinion of little men== the view that all human beings and fallen angels will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God in Heaven and the New Jerusalem.= I TOTALY REJECT

All have choice=believe or reject as God will not force anyone to accept His love and mercy.

 

You are probably correct that your views sound more like Pelagianism (men have some good and evil in them and are free to help in their salvation) than Universalism (everyone will go to heaven). In defense of the staff, your opening post had so many verses emphasizing the word "ALL" and so few of your own ideas that it was hard to tell what point you were making. The opening post could easily be read as a claim of universalism. You have since clarified that was not your intent.

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All have choice=believe or reject as God will not force anyone to accept His love and mercy.

Is this what we see with Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus?

Did God ASK Paul to serve him or did God TELL Paul that he would serve him?

 

It seems to me that God made the choice and gave Paul a heart that accepted God's choice.

Which fits with verses like "I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh" ... God is doing the work. A heart of stone is dead and incapable of life. The new heart has God's laws written on it and wants to serve God. God does all of the work and man receives all of the grace (unmerited favor).

 

 

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YES!!! God is outside time God knows our thoughts before we can think them but that does not change the truth that what we think and do is all our choice so God knowing what Paul would do in his life was not God forcing Paul.

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Well this is something that I constantly like to remind myself of, and I think that it is something that you can never really hear too often. The more that I am reminded of these things, the more that I can keep my head up and stay motivated to do the Lord's work. Faith is something that we should relish in and feel comfort in, but sometimes our faith is tested in this Earthly life and those are the times when we need to hear this, to keep us strong and on the right path. Thanks for sharing.

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If we accept your argument that "all" means literally all, then this one verse is a lie. Jesus WAS lifted up, however absolutely ALL men have not been drawn to him. I can guarantee you that there exist people who have not yielded to Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Since this statement in John was made by Jesus and, by your interpretation, is a lie, then Jesus lied. He is not, therefore, the sinless sacrifice. We are all, consequently, still damned.

 

... Or you have misunderstood what he was saying.

 

I leave it to you to decide which is more probable.

 

 

How can you say that this verse is a lie (yet)? If you take the verse to be a universalist statement, then "will" merely tells us that all men will, at some point, be drawn to Him. It does not state that this must happen in the first life.

 

I am not saying that Jesus' meaning of that statement is universalist, though (I don't know). I have always understood it to mean that if someone is truly graced with an understanding of Christ, that person will at least be drawn to Christ (regardless of his/her final response to Christ).

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How can you say that this verse is a lie (yet)? If you take the verse to be a universalist statement, then "will" merely tells us that all men will, at some point, be drawn to Him. It does not state that this must happen in the first life.

I am not saying that Jesus' meaning of that statement is universalist, though (I don't know). I have always understood it to mean that if someone is truly graced with an understanding of Christ, that person will at least be drawn to Christ (regardless of his/her final response to Christ).

 

John 12:27-36 [NKJV]

27 “Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.”

Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”

29 Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”

30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

 

Here is the verse in context using the New King James Version [just to make it a little easier to read than Shakespearean English like the KJV]. From what hour would Jesus even be tempted to ask the Father to save Him? (John 12:27) That sounds like the Crucifixion.

"Now is the judgement of the world" (John 12:31) "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself" (John 12:32) both point to an immediate event like his crucifixion ... where the world is judged because "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18). Then comes the verse that leaves no doubt: Immediately after "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself" (John 12:32) comes "This He said, signifying by what death He would die." (John 12:33)

 

Since Jesus WAS "lifted up" (crucified), and every single human being without exception has not been drawn to him, then either Jesus lied or Universalism is incorrect in the assumption that "all men" means every single human being without exception.

I do not believe that Jesus lied. I believe that men misinterpret that verse to mean "every single individual person" when it states "all men" (in the KJV). Note that the NKJV translated that as "draw all peoples" meaning that in Jesus crucifixion, salvation was open to all people groups, not just the children of Israel (as was the Old Covenant).

 

 

 

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It does not state that this must happen in the first life.

 

Hebrews 9:27-28 [NKJV] And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

One life is all you get. Those who have lived and died get no second chance.

 

 

 

Romans 1:18-21 [NKJV] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

 

Men stand already judged and found guilty. The only hope is to seek MERCY while it may be found. As you stand guilkty before the Judgement Seat of a Just and Holy God, it is too late to seek mercy. (see John 3:18)

 

 

 

Roms 3:10-18

10 As it is written:

​“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 ​​There is none who understands;

​​There is none who seeks after God.

12 ​​They have all turned aside;

​​They have together become unprofitable;

​​There is none who does good, no, not one.”

13 ​​“Their throat is an open tomb;

​​With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;

​​“The poison of asps is under their lips”;

14 ​​“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 ​​“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 ​​Destruction and misery are in their ways;

17 ​​And the way of peace they have not known.”

18 ​​“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

 

God has already presented his evidence and made his case. We are without defense. We are guilty as charged. We have fallen short of God's perfect standard. There is only one hope ...

 

Romans 3:21-26 [NKJV] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

 

 

No second chances ...

 

Hebrews 2:1-4 [NKJV] We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

 

 

 

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Hebrews 9:27-28 [NKJV] And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

One life is all you get. Those who have lived and died get no second chance.

 

 

These verses do not go beyond stating that we are judged after this life, for what was done in this life. They do specify that the great judgment will be based on one life. They do not specify what will happen after the great judgment. They do not specify that one life is all that every human will ever get.

 

 

Romans 1:18-21 [NKJV] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

 

Men stand already judged and found guilty. The only hope is to seek MERCY while it may be found. As you stand guilkty before the Judgement Seat of a Just and Holy God, it is too late to seek mercy. (see John 3:18)

 

Yes, judged for this life...to be punished for this life. There is no escaping the punishment to come, once someone dies. That does not signal that the punishment will be unending.

 

There are certainly other verses that are translated as to say that the punishment will be everlasting. But the word translated "everlasting", it could be argued, does not necessarily mean that. Aionios ("everlasting") transliterated into English means more literally, "age-long" or "partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age". Those quotes come straight from Strong's.

 

I'd be interested to hear a good case against the following article: http://tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html (linking to tentmaker does not mean I necessarily like their website as a whole).

 

 

 

 

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@andrew32

 

There are people here who can give a Greek and Hebrew explanation of the words, that is not my area of expertise. Instead I offer one simple question ...

 

Have you (or anyone else) met Adam?

 

Surely, the first man would have had his second life by now (if anyone was going to). It seems from the perspective of the living, death is intuitively a one way trip and 'forever'. I do not think that anyone but a scholar determined to appeal to Aristotle to deny the obvious would question the duration of the 'age of the afterlife'.

 

I would also point out the RESULT of his efforts. There is no longer any point in my presenting ANY scripture to support any claim since the plain meaning of the text can no longer be taken as the 'correct' meaning (according to the revised, non Orthodox Theology).

 

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

 

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

 

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

 

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

 

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

 

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

 

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

 

[PS. Is the promise of Eternal Life also just for an age and also temporary?]

 

 

Some verses to think about with the word (aionios):

 

Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal G166 fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

[will the devilalso return?]

 

Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal G166 sin”—

 

Romans 16:26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal G166 God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

 

1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal G166 dominion! Amen.

 

2 Timothy 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal G166 glory.

 

Hebrews 5:9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal G166 salvation,

 

Hebrews 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, [fn]having obtained eternal G166 redemption.

 

Hebrews 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal G166 inheritance.

 

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep [fn]through the blood of the eternal G166 covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

 

1 Peter 5:10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal G166 glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

 

2 Peter 1:11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal G166 kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

 

 

Will all these ETERNAL things also last for only a very long season ... an 'age'?

 

 

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You make good points with those verses. Some responses, though:

 

 

 

There are people here who can give a Greek and Hebrew explanation of the words, that is not my area of expertise. Instead I offer one simple question ...

 

Have you (or anyone else) met Adam?

 

Surely, the first man would have had his second life by now (if anyone was going to). It seems from the perspective of the living, death is intuitively a one way trip and 'forever'. I do not think that anyone but a scholar determined to appeal to Aristotle to deny the obvious would question the duration of the 'age of the afterlife'.

 

 

I didn't claim that anyone gets a second life before the judgment (but -->). We all are raised unto judgment after one life. I agree that Heb 9:27 says as much. No one lives again before the judgment, in general. But then, of course there were a few people raised from the dead by Elijah, Elisha, Peter, Paul, and Jesus. Those resurrections in and of themselves tend to negate the idea that Heb 9:27 specifies that we get only 1 life, at least from a certain perspective. They certainly negate that Heb 9:27 says that we all die only once before the judgment.

 

 

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

 

[PS. Is the promise of Eternal Life also just for an age and also temporary?]

 

It has been argued that in both eternal life and eternal punishment, "eternal" refers to "that pertaining to the age to come". Besides, Revelation guarantees that there will be no more death for those who are raised in the judgment and whose names are in the book of life. That guarantee need not be within "aionios life" for the guarantee to exist.

 

 

Then consider:

 

a Large planet vs. a large fruit

 

 

The extent and full understanding of an adjective often depends on the word it is modifying; just because aionios modifies something or someone who is infinite in nature does not guarantee that aionios in and of itself implies "infinite". God is described as "good". Does that mean that the word "good" must be "of infinite goodness", as is implied in its modification of God? God is the God of the age/ages to come, and particularly of the age/ages to come (versus Satan being considered the 'god of this world' 2 Cor 4:4).

 

 

 

In the Septuagint, consider Prov 22:28:

 

 

28 Do not move the ancient landmark that your fathers have set.

 

Here, the Hebrew word eventually translated "ancient" in English is translated aionios in the Greek. Reading the verse, the word did not mean "of infinite duration" in this context. Thus aionios did not always mean "of infinite duration"

 

Similarly for aionios in Jonah 2:6 in the Septuagint.

 

 

 

 

I agree that if you ignore verses like 1 Tim 4:10, the collection of verses you listed does seem to indicate a meaning of "infinite time", though.

 

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