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Lila

Baptism

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As a newer Christian (within the last 7-8 years) I have not had the opportunity to get baptized as of yet. I believe that it is more of a spiritual decision and not something absolutely necessary, because my acceptance of Jesus is in my heart no matter what, and that baptism is just a proclamation of that. But I have also heard that I will not go to heaven if I am not baptized...what is the right answer? Are there different beliefs within different denominations of Chrisitanity on this?

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No matter which view you hold, should you not follow Jesus and the apostles teachings, namely be baptize?

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There is a view that baptism is essential to salvation, and there is Scriptural support for that view. Although not all Christians believe that baptism is essential to salvation, the alternative view is that baptism represents the first act of obedience to God. In a sense then, it is a matter of semantics. If Jesus is truly in your heart, then I would think you would want to follow the example that He gave, and that of the early church, which is that whenever it was physically possible to do so, after a person believed, he was baptized. I grew up in a church that baptized the children of church members as infants, which I do not view as a Biblical baptism. Not knowing any better, however, I became a Christian at the age of thirteen, but it wasn't until I was in my twenties that I came to realize that I needed to be baptized as a believer. Had I died during the years after I asked Christ into my heart and the time that I was baptized, would God have accepted my ignorance as a legitimate excuse? I don't truly know, but I am pleased that I was finally baptized as a believer.

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All you really need to do is look at the examples in the bible. Whenever someone was converted to Christianity they were baptized, and in many cases it was them and their entire household. The individual (the believer) was baptized because they were now a part of God's covenant and have accepted His salvation. No baptism does not facilitate salvation, but it is a sign of it. An outward showing that you are now set apart.

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As a newer Christian (within the last 7-8 years) I have not had the opportunity to get baptized as of yet. I believe that it is more of a spiritual decision and not something absolutely necessary, because my acceptance of Jesus is in my heart no matter what, and that baptism is just a proclamation of that. But I have also heard that I will not go to heaven if I am not baptized...what is the right answer? Are there different beliefs within different denominations of Chrisitanity on this?

 

Catholics, Orthodox and some Protestant denominations believe that Baptism is salvific. Other Christians do not.

 

It is one of those disputes that goes on and on.

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Hi Lila, there are many different beliefs concerning the efficacy and practice of baptism within the pale of Christendom, but there is at least one thing that we ALL believe, if you have never been baptized, you need to be!! I don't know how your church handles baptisms (we like to use an outdoor swimming pool, so this is "baptism season" for us right now ;)), but go to your pastor this Sunday, tell him you'd like to be baptized, and he'll take care of the rest.

 

Yours and His,

David

 

 

 

Edited by David Lee

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I was baptized as an infant, and I hear time and time again, that this doesn't count, but I firmly believe that in the eyes of God, it does. I am His child, and everyone who knows me, knows that as well, not because they got to watch me get dunked but because they can see how I live in Him. I personally have witnessed very few actual baptisms, yet I know of a lot of born-again Christians and I don't need to have them prove it to me by getting wet. They prove it in a lot of other ways and I know beyond a doubt that they are members of the family of God. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit back in 1992, and that was good enough for me. I never bothered to get re-baptized since I feel it was good enough the first time around. Basically, it's your personal choice whether you do it after becoming a Christian or not. You will go to Heaven regardless, so rejoice in that. :)

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I was baptized as an infant, and I hear time and time again, that this doesn't count, but I firmly believe that in the eyes of God, it does. I am His child, and everyone who knows me, knows that as well, not because they got to watch me get dunked but because they can see how I live in Him. I personally have witnessed very few actual baptisms, yet I know of a lot of born-again Christians and I don't need to have them prove it to me by getting wet. They prove it in a lot of other ways and I know beyond a doubt that they are members of the family of God. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit back in 1992, and that was good enough for me. I never bothered to get re-baptized since I feel it was good enough the first time around. Basically, it's your personal choice whether you do it after becoming a Christian or not. You will go to Heaven regardless, so rejoice in that. :)

 

I have come to understand that it depends on the denomination of the people that are saying this. My siblings and I were all baptized as infants as we grew up in the CRC, however, some of my siblings have since started attending more liberal churches who do not, necessarily, ascribe to Reformed theology. In one case one of my brothers had joined another church and was re-baptized. I tried to point out how unnecessary that was highlighting what Paul told the Jews about pretty much this very issue and used circumcision as an illustration of his point. Ok, so you were circumcised as an infant will you now have it done again when you become an adult and are able to choose for yourself that you will be a follower of God? Of course not, that would be tantamount to self-mutilation.

 

One baptism is sufficient for anyone.

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One baptism is sufficient for anyone.

 

Amen!!!

 

“And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

- Nicene Creed

 

God bless,

William

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No matter which view you hold, should you not follow Jesus and the apostles teachings, namely be baptize?

 

Agreed. Baptism has often be called "the first act of obedience". I can't think of a good reason for a new Christian to not be baptized.

 

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You should be baptised because the Bible says that even Jesus was baptised. It costs nothing to be baptised, you also have to remember. By getting baptised, you come to fully accept God since it strengthens your faith. It has a spiritual meaning than just thinking about justifying your daily life. Think about it and be baptised as soon as possible.

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dirtfarmer here

 

This is my first post on this forum.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 states " For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

 

In Matthew 3:11 John said; " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire:"

 

Ephesians 4:5 " One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

 

If Jesus Christ baptizes with the Spirit and there is one baptism, where does water baptism fit. Some say it is our witness to the world that we have salvation. Was the world present at your water baptism? It is the Spirit baptism that creates us in Christ Jesus. Being baptized by the Spirit is what makes us a new creation in Christ Jesus and by that baptism we have died with Christ, been resurrected with him and walk in newness of life. It is by the new creation in Christ that a lost and dying world sees the change that has happened in us and we are not the same person that we once was.

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dirtfarmer here

 

This is my first post on this forum.

G'day dirtfarmer, and welcome to CF.org!

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 states " For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

 

In Matthew 3:11 John said; " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire:"

 

Ephesians 4:5 " One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

 

If Jesus Christ baptizes with the Spirit and there is one baptism, where does water baptism fit. Some say it is our witness to the world that we have salvation. Was the world present at your water baptism? It is the Spirit baptism that creates us in Christ Jesus. Being baptized by the Spirit is what makes us a new creation in Christ Jesus and by that baptism we have died with Christ, been resurrected with him and walk in newness of life. It is by the new creation in Christ that a lost and dying world sees the change that has happened in us and we are not the same person that we once was.

 

Your conditional statement is both false, but true. Lemme explain, please read John 3:

  • 22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized (for John had not yet been put in prison).24

 

Now read John 4:

  • 4 Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),

Baptism is physically done with water and commissioned to the disciples, all believers have this in common, that is, one baptism.... in John 4 we can infer from the Scriptures that Jesus was probably preaching the word while the disciples baptized with water. John clarifies John chapter 3. The baptism is as though done by Jesus when performed by Jesus' disciples.

 

Being baptized by the Spirit is what makes us a new creation in Christ Jesus and by that baptism

 

I believe you are blending or confusing two theological terms, to just be sure I am including an article for you to read: Regeneration differs from Baptism: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...eneration-mean

 

In Matthew 3:11 John was a minister of the outward sign of water baptism, and Christ was the author of the spiritual baptism. I think it also worthwhile to understand this point as written in the Westminster Confession of Faith:

 

V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]

 

[13] LUK 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. EXO 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. 25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. 26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

 

[14] ROM 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also. ACT 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

[15] ACT 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

 

Hope this helps!

 

God bless,

William

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hello William, dirtfarmer here

 

If I understand what the Westminster confession is saying, unless one is baptized (water) then they are not and cannot be saved(regenerated). Scripture states "that without the shedding of blood there is no remission"(Hebrews 9:22 "Without the shedding of Blood is no remission). The thing that most people don't or can't understand is that "sins" are the fruit of the nature that we receive from Adam, which is the sin nature. Can you supply scripture that states that anything but unbelief at the time of death is what condemns a person to eternal separation from God?

 

As to the circumcision of Moses' son, was that before or after Abraham? If I understand scripture, it was some 400 years after Abraham. Also, during the wilderness journey there was no circumcisions performed( Joshua 5:2-6). It was 11 days journey from Horeb by way of mount Seir unto Kadesh-barnea, but it took them about 40 years wandering and the death of all the males that were circumcised in Egypt before they passed into the land of promise. Why did all those that left Egypt die in the wilderness, even though they were circumcised, and not enter the land of promise? We find the answer in Hebrews 3:19; "So we see that they could not enter because of unbelief."

 

Have you studied Cornelius in Acts 10? He was a devout man and one the feared God: study about God fearers. They were Gentiles during the time of law that lived according to the Abrahamic covenant. The had access to and worshipped in the Jewish synagogues.

 

As to Simon, in Acts 8:21 it is stated " Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God." In verse 13 it is stated the he believed and was baptized, but he was not saved according to verse 21. Simon was still thinking in terms of magical powers and had not repented in his heart. When Peter and John came he wanted to buy what they had.

 

 

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If I understand what the Westminster confession is saying, unless one is baptized (water) then they are not and cannot be saved(regenerated).

 

Hi Dirtframer, while the WCF speaks of baptism in a most serious manner, I believe it actually says quite the opposite of your stated understanding of it, at least where regeneration is concerned (see below, particularly the parts in bold):

 

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XXVIII

 

Of Baptism

 

 

 

 

I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemnadmission of the party baptizedinto the visibleChurch;[2] but also to be unto him A SIGN AND A SEAL of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5]of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]

 

II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]

 

III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]

 

IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]

 

V.Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are NOT so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]

 

VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]

 

VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18]

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

In Christ,

David

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Hi again Dirtfarmer, I see you are brand new here so I'd also like to say,WELCOME TO CF :)

 

Yours in Christ,

David

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I was born into a Catholic family and was baptized as a baby. Later on in life, I found myself attending a fundamentalist Christian group. Part of my growth as a Christian with this group is joining a weekend retreat and being baptized in a pool. The same thing happened to my father who joined a Baptist church. There's a big difference between the two baptisms. The first one was done without my conscious knowledge, while the second one was fully my decision. Now, I know that there is such a thing as confirmation among Catholics, and I also went through that as a teenager. However, I know and I realize that unless I get myself baptized with the Christian group, it will be difficult to grow in my walk of faith with them. So I didn't hesitate about having myself baptized the second time around.

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I know that Christians are supposed to be baptised according to Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". What baptism actually means, I'm not sure. Acts 2:38 says it's for the remission of sins and to receive the Holy Spirit "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Luke 3:3 includes Repentance "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins"

 

This is one reason I do not believe in baby baptism. A baby can not repent and has nothing to repent of. The question of does baptism save us, however, is a different question. Matthew 19:16-17 says "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". Jesus makes no mention of salvation. Some may complain that this is being saved by works, but it is repentance, not sinning. However, Jesus did say in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." and Jesus commanded us to be baptized. The thief on the cross was not baptized and Jesus told him in Luke 24:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

 

So I really don't have an answer. We can be saved without baptism but we should be baptized to follow Jesus' commandment. I was baptized, but I really don't know the meaning of it other than identifying with Jesus. I do know Acts 8:36-37 states that we are only baptized if we believe "36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See,here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

 

I think that if you have the opportunity to be baptized, and don't you are disobeying Jesus. Jesus said if you love him you will follow his commandments. We are told in the old testament that God was angry at prophets who said it would be good for them who do not love God. While I do not believe doing good works will get you do heaven I do believe willfully sinning, disobeying God, will keep you out since you are not repentant.

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hello St_Worm2, dirtfarmer here

 

Why would you take the WCF as the authority over the teaching of the Holy Spirit?

 

Was Matthew 28:19 spoken to the church? Matthew 28:16 states that it was spoken to the "eleven". Can we apply this to church doctrine? What is the purpose of the nation of Israel? Is not to be a kingdom of priest? Exodus 19:5-6 " Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priest, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

 

Ephesians 1:13 &14 states that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest(down payment) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. What is that purchased possession? Is it not our whole spirit and soul and body? The Church is the bride of Christ.

 

Deuteronomy 32:21 God told Moses; " I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people: I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation." Romans10:19 " But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Could the purpose of the Church be to make Israel jealous, so that Israel will see how God, through Christ, blesses them and this causes Israel to understand who it was that they crucified? All Israel will be saved(Romans 11:26).

 

Colossians 2:11 " In whom ye are also circumcisied with the circumcision made without hands, in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ."

 

Ephesians 2:10 " For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

 

As I have said before; It is how we live before others in times of adversity that reveals to a lost and dying world that we have died to self and Christ is living his life through us. This is how the world knows of Christ, not water baptism before a few church people.

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hello St_Worm2, dirtfarmer here

 

Why would you take the WCF as the authority over the teaching of the Holy Spirit?

 

Hi Dirtfarmer, you said:

If I understand what the Westminster confession is saying, unless one is baptized (water) then they are not and cannot be saved(regenerated).

 

I showed you (in post #15) why your stated "understanding" of the WCF and what you believe it teaches about baptism was incorrect, that's all. I didn't discuss the "Holy Spirit" or His "authority".

 

Yours and His,

David

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I believe you should get baptized. Just because it's the right thing to do. The disciples baptized. Do you have salvation without it? The theif on the cross did, and he was not baptized.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Hi ktesa1,

 

I was baptized as a baby, but wasn't raised going to church. I tried church in my early teens, but eventually gave up disillusioned. Upon accepting Christ as an adult, I felt the need for being baptized again. I believe the Holy Spirit was my guide in so doing. It may not be necessary for salvation but it is a sign of obedience. :RpS_rolleyes:

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Upon accepting Christ as an adult, I felt the need for being baptized again.

You weren't baptized again, you were simply baptized. We are commanded to be baptized. Your first baptism wasn't something you did, but something your parents did to you.

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Hi ktesa1,

 

I was baptized as a baby, but wasn't raised going to church. I tried church in my early teens, but eventually gave up disillusioned. Upon accepting Christ as an adult, I felt the need for being baptized again. I believe the Holy Spirit was my guide in so doing. It may not be necessary for salvation but it is a sign of obedience. :RpS_rolleyes:

Yes, a sign of obedience -- a testimony to others of the decision already made in your heart. Obedient in that you are saying by your actions of being baptized by immersion in front of others -- that you are Now identifying with Jesus Christ / His teachings. In some countries it is a Major step in a new believer's life -- especially when they have been trusting in a very different belief system. They can and have been kicked out of their family -- their community. In This country it isn't that big of a thing in a person's life. But it Is an important step.

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