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Sound Doctrine

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  1. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Colossians 1:23 - It hasn't been preached to every creature, neither in Paul's time nor between then and now. If you take what Paul says there literally, you make him out to be a liar, or yourself a fool. It will be done just before Jesus' second coming, which explains why He has not yet come. Matthew 24:14 - Again, this Gospel has not reached that degree of being preached yet. When it does, then the end shall come. Matthew 16:28 - What death is it that some shall not taste? They before Him did physically die. Some did not spiritually die, but would be regenerated by becoming believers because that is the only way one cannot taste death. We are born spiritually dead. This is the second death. It is for the wicked who are separated from God eternally in the lake of fire. Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death..." we are all sinners, yet we live. Since we are sinners, we are spiritually dead until we believe in Jesus and are quickened in the spirit by the Holy Spirit. When Adam was to surely die the day he ate the forbidden fruit, he lived for over 900 years. But, spiritually he died the day he sinned, as God said he would. Death separated Adam from God, thus all mankind down from Adam, inheriting his sin condition. Understanding, rightly dividing the word of truth, and context. Without these, one falls into the snare of doctrines of devils, as you did here. You apparently do not know there is more than one meaning of death in the Bible. You didn't see something obvious and realize that what Paul said was prophecy, not just for the time he said it. Same thing with Matthew 24:14. The fact that certain evil teachers have stretched and twisted these and other Scriptures to try to make them fit their false doctrine is abominable, almost inconceivable, that anybody with common sense and understanding of the Scriptures would believe this false doctrine. The more I learn about Amillennialism, the more outrageous it appears, turning the truth into lies. One must believe the Scriptures before they can understand them. Belief is given to us from the Father by grace through faith, not by works. By faith we believe, and by belief we understand. The Scriptures are Spiritual, and are only understood in that light.
  2. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    In the old KJV, the words caught up are used, which is what defines the Christian use of the word rapture. Caught up is a direct translation from the Greek harpazo into the KJV. It is not a mistranslation from the TR, as the rapture is also described not just in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, but also in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 where caught up is not used - "51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." So in these verses, the word raised is used. Harpazo means to snatch away, to seize. In the rapture the Pentecostal and post Pentecostal saints are caught up at the time the rapture happens, as the Bible describes. It comes with no signs and is for saints only. We meet the Lord in the air in the clouds. The Lord does not come to the earth at this time. I don't care how old this doctrine is as far as being taught in churches. I care about what God says in His word, and the catching up of the saints is clearly a different event at a different time than the second coming of Christ, which is preceded by signs specified in the Revelation and other places in Scripture, and the Gospel will be preached to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and then shall the end come. At this point, Christ comes to the earth for the second time. None of this has anything to do with transfigurations on the mount or the catching away of Elijah and Elisha. This is not my opinion, it is what the Bible says and teaches. I believe in this doctrine because I believe the Bible and this is what is taught from God, not churches. Others do not believe this rapture doctrine, much to their detriment in understanding. If this were my opinion, I would be opinionated, but this is from God, and I am only presenting what God says.
  3. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    My older brother has you beat with education, Bible study, etc. So what? He's read the Bible all the way through six times; I, only once. He still learns things that I show him from the Bible. Why is this so? I don't know. We can all learn some things from each other, but they are not always the right doctrines. You are attempting to judge me by trying to determine my credibility based on my education. You should instead be discussing what the Bible says about the rapture because that is the OP. You set the example again of there being some sort of personal conflict with me, and it is not only off-topic, it is wrong to have this conflict over nothing. I see no purpose for the conflict unless you are into NLP. If you are, you already know what that stands for, and it is evil. If you are not, then please stick to the topic.
  4. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Nothing to hide, but why should my level of education matter? The Bible is written for the simple, not the wise and prudent. Doesn't Jesus say we can only enter the Kingdom of God after we are first converted and come to Him as little children. I have an opinion. I believe in what I say unless the Bible says I'm wrong on a doctrine, or someone using the Scriptures can prove that I am wrong, which is essentially the same thing if that person rightly divided the word of truth. It sounds to me like you just don't like it when people take a stand. Not taking a stand goes against my grain. Revelation 3:15 - 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Is this open to interpretation? NO! No Scripture is given of any private interpretation, so we are not to read our own private interpretation or anyone else's into it. These things from Scripture are not my opinions or interpretation, they are Biblical facts. If everything we discuss from the Bible here is going to be parenthetically phrased with "maybe's" we then are saying we do not know what we are talking about because somebody else might have a different view (whether right or wrong doesn't seem to matter). We certainly don't want to bother anyone by taking a stand on a viewpoint regarding any doctrine. Is that what you want? To read sensitively phrased prattle? I am not saying to go out of our way to be rough on anyone, but sometimes it can't be helped. Somebody might think I am OK in my expression of thought and someone else might think I'm too rough. Can't please everybody. Sorry. I think it pleases the Lord to be either hot or cold, right or wrong, but don't be wishy-washy. I notice criticism from one or two about something I didn't even bring up. I'm reading comments and going "Huh? What is this person talking about?" I am direct and straightforward when it is called for, and usually that involves sound doctrine.
  5. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    No. I have to say something to establish my point for the Scripture verses I post. Beyond that, what I say doesn't matter. What others say doesn't matter in the same respect. What God says is what matters, and that is what I use, God's own words, and stand on what He is teaching. There are those who do not believe what God says, which is the problem I see here. It is of no matter if they believe what I say. I do not interpret the Scriptures, but usually rightly divide the word of truth. Being human, I too make mistakes, but not to be proud, I do usually hit the mark with dividing the word of truth. When I don't know an answer, I come out and admit it. When I am surmising, I also admit it. I know some, maybe many will disagree with me on these points, but I will not belabor it any further. You seem to be contentious, and I don't know why, but appears to be a personal problem you have with me.
  6. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Walvoord does not believe what the Bible says about the rapture or the church. He is a classic example of why we should always check with the Scriptures to see if the teacher is right; not check with the teacher to see if what you learned from the Scriptures is right. The church is all saints. The rapture descriptions do not say that the church is being caught up at a time (only known to the Lord). They say that those who are asleep (dead in body) in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive (those who are alive at the time the rapture occurs, which hasn't happened yet) shall rise and together we meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Not on earth, not in heaven, but in the air. There will be more saints on the earth during the 7-year tribulation (read Daniel 9) and during the 1000-year reign of Christ afterwards. If you believe the rapture is nonsense, you do not believe what the Bible says. I gave Revelation 19:11-21 which describes Jesus' second coming to the earth. He will not be coming at His second coming to catch up or to resurrect anybody, but to wage war in the battle of Armageddon, at the end of the tribulation, just after the Gospel has been preached to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, none of which has happened yet. The signs of His second coming have not happened yet. His physical rule on the earth with a rod of iron and the saints as His priests has not happened yet. I hope I am being clear because this is what the Bible teaches. Regarding Walvoord and others like him, reformed or not, here are some Scripture warnings regarding paying too much attention to the teachings of men and not enough attention to the teachings of God: 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - 1 John 2:26-27 13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. - 2 Timothy 1:13-14 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. - 2 Timothy 2:14-18 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:13-17 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 We are taught from the Scriptures, to be taught from the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit, and to beware the teachings of men. Even good, honest men can make mistakes. All that we get from men must agree with Scripture, or else we must discard what the men say and when possible, reprove, rebuke, and exhort them with all longsuffering and doctrine. Doctrine must be of what the Scriptures teach, not what we interpret or what others interpret. It is because the Reformed have listened to teachings of men, putting those things ahead of the teachings from the Bible by the Holy Spirit, that the Reformed are in error concerning eschatology. Please trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. I do not recognize the teachings of men as valid arguments against the doctrines I write from the Bible. I address Scripture, not interpretations of Scripture. I mean to give you the best there is, as nothing else will do, and you deserve the best, which is only found in the Bible and nowhere else. We are commanded to preach the word, to be instant in season, out of season... There may have been other things I mentioned in your absence, I don't know, as I did not go back and review all I wrote during that time. If you have questions on what I wrote about, please ask. I hope I have helped you to understand what I have written on eschatology and specifically the "rapture."
  7. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Please start at page 7, and read my posts from there on.
  8. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Regarding the PTSD question, I am he. I've been in a bad place the last few days and when that happens I can be a very nasty S.O.B. with a short fuse when I am personally attacked, misquoted, or when people tell me I said things I never said. It doesn't affect my doctrinal beliefs though. I realize others put a lot of thought and study into their beliefs as well, but somebody's wrong somewhere. I get my doctrine from the Bible only. Anything I hear from preachers or teachers, I check with the Bible to make sure they jive. If not, the Bible is what I believe. That is not necessarily the case with some people. They follow man's interpretation of what God says, hence 1 John 2:26-27 must be remembered: "26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." John is putting them that seduce as the context and telling us all we need is the Holy Spirit teaching us from the Scriptures. The assuming thing is in the first part, what that person was doing. In the second part, it was more of a joke, I even put an lol to make sure they understood that. As for the correct meaning thing, one has to take a stand somewhere, doesn't one. Either I believe in something or I don't. If I have the proof to back it up, then it is the correct thing. I have such proof in what was being discussed. There are many things in the Bible I do not understand or at least not very well. I am open to other people's opinions on those doctrines as they come up, but when all is said, I still have to make sure that they are right with the Bible, once I know where to look. As for the priest and the RCC, you are not going to like what I have to say here. I have had friends who left that church cursing it on the way out, having been brought up in it. In theirs and my view, the RCC is a cult and by definition, the popes are false prophets. It is quite likely that the false prophet with the beast is going to be a pope since every pope in church history has been one. The beast will represent someone out of ancient Babylon. The RCC priests are not real with respect to Jesus reference to the saints being priests during the 1000-year reign, yet to come. That church is full of blasphemies, and I do all I know how to lead RCCs away from it, with love and patience. I feel very sad for anyone victimized by a foul church that keeps its people apart from God or has the brass ones to say they must act as intercessors for them. God hates false doctrine. I hate false doctrine. It is the thing I work hardest at to avoid, giving false doctrine, and when I am deceived by it like I was with tithing for example, I get downright indignant once I find out I've been lied to by the clergy, no matter what denomination they are. I have fallen for deception before, but it has always been the word of God that showed me my error and I received the correction. When one fails to accept correction from God through His word, they are of a reprobate mind. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. All I require is that the one telling me so better be able to prove it. I don't mean to sound mean. If I said this to you in person, you would be able to tell I am not being mean. When we can only read what the other person says, emotions can be completely misinterpreted.
  9. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Two problems: One, I gave you the correct meaning regarding Matthew 16:28. You are using that verse to say that those standing with Jesus will be there when He comes again. Nonsense. Second problem: You assume, incorrectly that I have a Schofield Bible or follow his teachings. I follow the teachings of no man, and have never read Schofield at all. It would be wise to first find out where I get my doctrine before assuming things. When you assume, you make and ASS out of U and ME. lol A third thing, dispensation is taught in the Bible, as in times when mysteries are finally revealed, or prophecies are unfolding. The word itself is even used in this context, at least in the old KJV. You cannot understand what is going on, and when, while reading the Bible without understanding this so-called "dispensationalism". What you are really railing against is people rightly dividing the word of truth.
  10. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Then you too have ignored the rest of the Bible. What 5 things?
  11. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Revelation 1:1-3 -. "1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Blessed is he that readeth... is all future people from that time. The time is at hand starting with the beginning of all that is to happen. Most of the prophecy has not happened yet. What has happened that is at hand is that the churches were messed up and Jesus was telling John to write what they must do. From Colossians 1:23, what you bolded is what will happen and then the end shall come. The end hasn't come yet, obviously. There are billions who have not heard the Gospel, obviously. The past tense, "was preached..." is predestination that it shall be preached (in the future) to all, but as I said, clearly that hasn't yet been fulfilled, but shall be in the future. Paul is writing in the assumptive mode that it was preached because it shall be just as he said, but in the future. To believe it has happened and we are after the end times as a result now, is ludicrous. The reality of the world now is that the Gospel has not yet reached everybody, ever. Same with Matthew 24:14 - The Gospel must be preached to all before the end comes, which is why the end has not come yet. Matthew 16:28 is Jesus telling those with Him that some of them shall not taste death, but that is when they die, then are resurrected and judged at the White Throne, then they shall taste death (eternal separation from God in the lake of fire). Others standing with Him shall be resurrected unto life at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Here's the problem: We have preconceived notions of what a verse is teaching without paying attention to what the verse is actually saying, and without paying attention to what is in reality going on in the world right now and in history. Much of this is a result of listening to people and not to God. The result is distorted views and falsified facts. Probably everybody does this to varying degrees, but they must be corrected when found out. To be honest, I have not found one doctrine in Amillennialism that makes any sense at all when reading the Bible and looking at the world events. I forgot to address 1 Peter 2:9 - You are implying that the generation of Peter's time is the only chosen generation who are in the priesthood. No, Not correct. All saints are to be priests under Jesus during the 1000 year reign, which is after the second coming. There are no priests of God from Peter's generation, none that are still living, yet Amillennialism teaches we are in the "1000 years" and the "tribulation". Makes no sense at all. Further, The saints are in no way identified as priests during the tribulation. The saints since Biblical times to present day are in no way considered priests yet. We will be in the next life under Jesus as He rules the earth on the earth, with a rod of iron, which is not yet happening. Again, look at the world and compare it to your Amillenial beliefs. They don't come close to a match. Same with the Bible, though somehow you think it matches your beliefs. Impossible. None of the characteristics of the tribulation or the 1000-year reign are going on, and not already happened. They are still yet to come. This misuse of Scripture is where we take a look at one verse, ignoring all the rest of Scripture, and drawing the wrong conclusion.
  12. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    The book of Revelation was to be read by all who would read it from the time John wrote it through to the end and beyond. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall never pass away." None of you Amillennials have addressed the fact that the rapture is for believers only, that none of the tribulation events have happened yet, that Jesus' second coming is to make war against the armies in Megiddo and not to resurrect or rapture, that Jesus is not physically on the earth ruling out of Jerusalem, that none of the saints are priests yet, that Satan and his demons are having their time doing evil on the earth since the beginning and have not yet been cast into the pit. What is the major malfunction here? In the words of the sheriff in Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Actually, it's more of a failure to believe the Bible. Moderator, please don't get on me about that again. There are some here who do not believe what the Bible says.
  13. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    OK. We got off the OP, which is the rapture. Perhaps this angel discussion should be in its own thread? I'm not a moderator, but I like to stick to the subject. I brought up some points regarding the rapture, tribulation, and 1000-year reign of Christ, which totally destroy the Amillennial belief, yet they were never discussed, but sidetracked instead. They dealt with the rapture/tribulation/1000 year reign of Christ. As for wrapping up the angel in the Revelation, when John bowed down before him the angel told him to arise, for he (the angel) is just a man. Worship God he said. Jesus gave His revelation to John through an angel acting as a messenger, calling himself a man, according to the Bible. Enough said on that here, please.
  14. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    Becky, you are right. I forgot that I had to grow over the years, and I know many things I haven't known before. I should cut others some slack. I apologize for being presumptuous regarding the others as to whether they are believers or not. I was also not in a good mood today, which is a reason, not an excuse. For what it is worth, I am suffering from PTSD and some days are just no good. Sorry.
  15. Sound Doctrine

    What is the Rapture?

    With what I've posted on this thread, anyone who does not know why the premillennial position is the correct one by now, I have to conclude, does not believe the Bible. Without believing the Bible, there can be no correction. Amillennialists believe the teachings of man, not God. The Amillennial belief makes no sense once one believes the Scriptures. Failure to accept the Scriptures for correction is indicative that one doesn't believe God. By definition, people who reject Scriptural corrections are unbelievers. They therefore cannot worship in spirit and truth, which are essential to pleasing God through worship. That kind of worship then is in vain. This discussion cannot go on because when I show how the Scriptures oppose the teachings of Amillennialism, they are read but not perceived, or else they are ignored.
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