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About JulieB67

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  1. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    I realize that traditions over the years doesn't distinguish them. If you ask someone today, was Noah Jewish, most would say yes, even though Judah himself hadn't been born yet. But just because our modern society lumps all twelve tribes into one after the split doesn't mean that's what God intended. I feel like we need to accept God's word over the traditions men. But when you hear 144,000 being brought up as Jews, it just feels wrong to say Jews instead of the entire tribes of Israel. Oh well. But I will say I too, am not sure about the number symbolic wise as well.
  2. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    Sue, sorry about the pm, I did hit the reply button and couldn't respond for some reason. I was just saying that that with the NIV version, the words have been changed. And when that happens, you are losing the ability to translate the word back to the Hebrew and Greek if needed. The NIV totally removes the word souls from Ez 13;20 and added the word birds. The word birds (Hebrew words, tsippor, owph sp might be off but you can check the Strong's Concordance) is not in the Hebrew text of that verse. The KJV can be translated back with a Strong's Concordance, the NIV can't. When read properly with the word "soul" (nephesh) it totally changes the entire tone of that verse. People being ensnared like birds isn't what he meant. As for the 12 tribes, all went into major serious idolatry and God split them apart after Solomon's reign. (10 to the north, Judah Benjamin, the south) In King's and Chronicles, for every good king, there was a bad one and so on...The 10 tribes to the north were the first going into captivity and later on Judah and Benjamin into Babylon. The prophets of the OT are full of God's anger at this. But this shouldn't take away the fact that only a portion of the 144, 000 in Rev are Jewish.
  3. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    Sue, yes, all the tribes ended up in idolatry. This is why the twelve tribes were split, later going into captivity. But I do believe when it comes to end time prophecy, some from every tribe as described will be sealed. This isn't just Jewish people. This is why it's not good to get too caught up in what "man" teaches but not God. God even warns us against this very thing. Someone from the tribe of Dan, for instance, isn't Jewish, etc. Traditions of men really do make void the true word of God. I believe that. I will say though, yes, it is very hard to unlearn something as opposed to learning something new. I personally went through this though this myself but really with the right tools and reading chapter by chapter and verse by verse, it wasn't hard to see. Paul actually knew the Thessalonians were confused by his first letter about the timing of Christ. They too thought he could come at any time and Paul starts out 2nd Thes by telling them not to be confused or shaken in mind by anything, even his first letter that the day of Christ was at hand. So that tells us right there he knew some had been confused by 1st Thes 4:17/18. So in a sense, he's saying, stop and let me be even more specific, and then goes on to say that day shall not happen, and then lays out certain events. The subject, if read straight through, never changes. And Paul is just kind of retelling What Christ has already taught in the Gospels.
  4. JulieB67

    Hello all

    Thanks for the kind welcome everyone :)
  5. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    It sounds like you're reading from the NIV which has "changed" the word soul to bird. Also again, can you provide the first verse in the NT that in your opinion supports a rapture? We are study ourselves to show ourselves approved and what you're posting sounds alot like the doctrine that I grew up with and was taught but upon studying the scriptures found that the doctrine was not supported.
  6. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    Alot of these beliefs are traditions of men. And I haven't found any scriptural evidence to support them. Another tradition is that somehow it's the Holy Spirit that leaves and then starts the tribulation. But this completely contradicts Christ's teaching that some will be delivered up at that time for a testimony and it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them. It's for this reason, that we need to remain in the field working. As Paul teaches we are going to be fighting a spiritual warfare and are in need of the gospel armor. And in Ezekiel 13, God himself says he is against those that teach his people to fly to save their souls. If I can ask a question, as a rapture believer, what is the first verse in the NT that supports this view in your opinion?
  7. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    William, I will definitely check out the thread, thanks!
  8. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    I did want again mention, that I too believed in the rapture doctrine most of my life until about 15 years ago. I was brought up to believe in it, the 7 year tribulation, the 144, 000 and so on. But upon study, even little things like one word -taken, can change an entire verse when translated back. Here are two verses with the word taken in them, Matthew 9:15 "And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bride chamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast." Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left." In the 9:15 verse, the word taken when translated back in the Strong's is the Greek word (522) -apairo. It does mean to "lift off or remove, take. In the 24:40, the word taken when translated back is the Greek word (3880) paralambo, which mean's to receive near, associate oneself with. So if believers were really removed at that time, they wouldn't have utilized the latter word. Also, 144, 000 will made up of all the tribes, not just Judah. Jewish people are from the tribe of Judah. Even though only Judah and Benjamin remained after the captivity, the other tribes did scatter. That's why Abraham's seed can't really be numbered today. But God knows who and where they are. But you can't put only Jewish people into the 144, 000. Those verses are very specific that 12, 000 from every tribe will be sealed.
  9. JulieB67

    Do Christians "go to heaven" when they Die?

    Another really great question. As a new member I am loving these topics. I admit, the resurrection of the body as taught has had me and still does baffle me at time. And because of the very verses you've laid out by Paul. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So when I read about the bodies being raised up on that last day it has confused me in the past. And I think it makes sense in a spiritual sense as well. I have long thought that those passed on are in a somewhat holding state in Heaven (both sides) And I definitely believe that we will spend eternity on a new earth seeing as the old heavens and earth will pass away. I believe that as well about the lake of fire and the blotting out. I don't believe anyone will spend an eternity in hell. I think the soul being blotted out in the lake of fire is the second death for those that did not overcome. But I thinks that's for another topic
  10. JulieB67

    Poll Question: Rapture Yeah or Nay

    I too voted nay and basically for the same reason. I believe that those alive will meet the Lord at his return. This doctrine alone is what actually got me into the Bible more seriously. (something I kept putting off for years) I wanted to let go of any preconceived notions that I had been taught and see for myself.
  11. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    This sounds like the rapture but it isn't. The rapture was first revealed to Paul and Jesus never spoke of it. He is describing what will happen when he returns at the end of the tribulation. The ones taken away will be taken in judgment and the ones left will enter into the Millenial kingdom. I will agree with you about the word "taken". It doesn't even have the same meaning as the word taken as utilized in other verses in the NT. Sorry for the two comments used I should have have put them in one.
  12. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    This sounds like the rapture but it isn't. The rapture was first revealed to Paul and Jesus never spoke of it. He is describing what will happen when he returns at the end of the tribulation. The ones taken away will be taken in judgment and the ones left will enter into the Millenial kingdom. Christ teaches that he has foretold us all things. When the disciples ask for signs of the end of the world and his coming. He leaves us wanting nothing in his teachings. Paul is just a second witness to Christ's teachings.
  13. JulieB67

    What is the Rapture?

    I was raised to believe in a rapture. As a child you really can get indoctrinated into certain beliefs. It wasn't until about 15 years ago that I really actually started to really get into the Bible and saw so many beliefs I had could not be backed up with scriptures. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 lay it out so perfectly. Christ is so simple in his teachings. And he tells us to beware so we aren't deceived on this very subject. When he says "immediately after the tribulation of those days" I as a Christian should and do believe him. Paul also gives the same warning in 2nd Thessalonians when they too had become confused. And he lays out what must happen. He says that "day shall not happen...." I know alot of rapture believers hold onto 1st Thes chapter 4:17. But if you read further into chapter 5, Paul calls this very event "The day of the Lord" All throughoutt the OT this very event The day of the Lord or Lord's Day has been taught. There's nothing about a rapture or other secret event to spirit away believers before that time. In Rev John is taken in the spirit on the Lord's Day when he was shown certain things. I just feel like we need to let the word read as it is. 1st Cor 15 Paul says "All are changed", not some and he certainly didn't say anyone was leaving. He said all are changed at the last trump. Because at that point we have to put on incorruptible. Acts is another place, Peter teaches, Acts 3:20 "And He shall send Jesus Christ, Which before was preached unto you:" Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." Heaven "must" receive Christ until the times of restitution of all things. Christ won't leave before that.
  14. JulieB67

    Hello all

    Just an intro...I was raised up in an Baptist church when I was younger but these days I choose to call myself a non denominational Christian. I was happy to have the roots but have changed certain beliefs when I didn't feel they could be backed up in the Word. I'm 50 years old but am still trying to learn each and every day in the Bible. I really love having a Strong's Concordance and other tools as well since certain some words can get lost in translation. I'm excited to start surfing about the different topics....
  15. JulieB67

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    Thank you for the welcome. I've been wanting to find new forum and although I've been studying end time prophecy for awhile, I'm constantly learning and always want to have an open mind on what others say, etc. I remember someone years ago planting a seed for me and it's what got me really into the Word. Thanks again :)