Jump to content

Ransol

Members
  • Content count

    160
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

297,438 Excellent

About Ransol

  • Rank
    Senior Member

Gender

  • Gender
    Male

Denomination

  • Den
    Christian
  1. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    Irenaeus 130ad -202ad Bishop of Church in Lyons, France Studied under Polycarp who studied under John Volume 5 of 'Against Heresies' "...Church shall suddenly be caught up.....it is said THERE SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, AS NEVER BEFORE." That was all one sentence. Cyprian 200ad - 258ad Treatises of Cyprian "We see terrible things have begun and know that still more terrible things are imminent..." (next sentence) "...That by an early departure you are taken away and delivered from the shipwreck and disasters that are imminent..." Ephraim the Syrian 306ad - 373ad 'On the Last Times 2' "For all the Saints and Elect of God are gathered prior to the Tribulation that is to come."
  2. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    Wycliffe Bible 1384, Thessalonians 2:3 uses dissention and Departure instead of falling away. As far as I know, this was the 1st English translation to the Scripture. Tyndale Bible 1526 also used departure in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I can't seem to find any earlier than KJV to use falling away and that was in 1611, they all use departure--the other possible translation that fits better with the context of the book of 2 Thessalonians.
  3. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    There were lots of writings and teachings on the Pre-Trib rapture view, including translations of apostasia as Departure, long before 200 years ago. I assume you are referring to Darby? (But that was like 150 years ago. )And the little girl who came up to him in a tent meeting? That proved false in the 80's . Isn't that good news? See, you can trust Scripture, literally.
  4. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    You're right, I should have put the number 646 in front of apostasia, and put the word "from" in front of aphistemi (as if it is saying "from the root word?" I dont know) because that is how it was presented . My mistake. I do believe in a rapture, not because I was taught it from my youth, but because Scripture teaches it. However, I don't need "falling away" to mean catchng away to justify that belief. The falling away from the Faith (which is obviously happening now) and the restrainer removed, are both happening before the man of sin is revealed. My only point is the "departure" use instead of "falling away" seems to fit better with context. Not that they both can not work. I got that view from a Jewish rabbi who was well versed in Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and English. A lot of what he said went right over my head. He believed in a post trib rapture, that and there were a few other things I disagree with him on, but he has some pretty good teachings on ancient Jewish culture. So I listen. I was not trying to pull a fast one on you by changing the words and meanings. I was just comparing the context (Not my beliefs) of 1st and 2nd Thessalonians with Falling Away and Departure--the two possible interpretations according to this rabbi guy. I certainly did not mean to offend you. Did I understand you correctly? You don't believe in a rapture at all? Pre or post?
  5. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    Falling away is only one of the possible interpretations. I am not saying it is wrong I'm just saying that "taken away" or "departure" fits the context better. Not because of what I already believe, but because what it says in verse 3&4 then say the exact same thing as verse 7&8. And verse 6 fits perfectly between the two groups of passages, where as with a "falling away" in verse 3, verse 6 seems out of place. "...the falling away then the revealing. Remember I told you these things? The taken out of the way, then the revealing." "the departure, then the revealing. Remember I told you these things? The taken out of the way, then the revealing." I'm not saying Falling away is wrong. I'm saying it doesn't fit the context as well. The statements I made that you are questioning me on, are related to him telling me they are IN perfect context with what Paul said earlier. So, I reread 1 and 2. I only see mention of us who do believe and them who don't believe. I didn' reply to him for believing falling away is correct, I said what I said about verse 6 being the beginning of a new teaching. That is way out of context. Because of the "revealing." In all three verses. Do you think I'm wrong? Can you look at 6 and say it is a new teaching not part of 3 and 4 teaching? 6 is the main reason I believe, not that I know, 3 and 4 are saying the same thing as 7 and 8.
  6. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    There is nothing in chapter 1 about "falling away from faith." Nothing even hinting to it. Only those of us who do believe and those of them that don't . Verse 6 continues and reiterates verse 3, otherwise who is the "he" that might be revealed? Also mentioned in verse 8. No, verse 6 is not the start of a new teaching, it is a continuation. If you would just believe what it says you wouldn't have to twist it to fit what you already believe. That isn't how we should study the bible, unless truth is not what we're interested in. But as far as a Pre-Trib rapture, I don't know. I lean that way, but I'm still searching. More of scripture tends to point that way, than it does a post trib. I am willing to consider anything you've got, though. Something I haven't seen already would be nice. Most post trib believers I've debated often do what you tried to do with verse 6. I learn so much in those debates because it really causes me to dig. I find stuff I never hear anyone else mention. I love it.
  7. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    I don't know the Greek, and I don't understand how to look it up or translate it, nor do I know the Jewish cultures that these were spoken or written in. I just did a Bing seach for apostasia which is the Greek word used in YLT for falling away. I gave you the literal translation. But I think you miss my point. My point is that the translation I gave you for verses 3 And 4, fits perfectly with 7&8. They say the same thing, if this other translation I gave is more accurate. Not saying it is. The way it is translated in KJV falling away is not in context with anything said in chapter 1 or 2. Falling away doesn't fit with what he's talking about. Esp. When he says, "remember what I told you..." then he mentions what He told them, but said nothing about falling away from the Faith or falling away from anything else. But I don't need verses 3 And 4 to say the same thing as 7 & 8 for them to be in line with my "theology" as you put it. I go by the whole of scripture. At least by all that I am aware of. chapter 1 and 2 he mentions US who believe, and THEM who don't believe, but nothing about anyone who used to believe but don' any more. He does the same thing in 1 Thes. Those of US who are alive and remain.... compared to destruction comes on THEM, not on us.
  8. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    Strong's apostasia (868 aphistemi: " leave, depart" which is derived from 575/ apo "away from" and 2476/ histemi, "stand" (implying desertion); apostasy --literally "a leaving from previous standing." Which, as I said in my previous post, tied verses 3 And 4 together, in context (And not two different topics) with 7 and 8, and verse 5 is the one tying the two sets of verses together. "Remember, when I was with you I told you these things..."
  9. Ransol

    The prophecy of the falling away from the faith

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 could also be translated as a "departure," or taking out of the way. It makes sense because then 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 is just reiterating what was said (remember when I was with you I told you these things--before he repeats himself) in verses 3 And 4. It seems to me 3-4 were translated using the wrong definition.
  10. That is a lot like my story. Only I did not go to a church that taught anything about baptism in the Spirit. My brother did, long story but that isn't how we were raised. He told me and explained to me about baptism in the Spirit. I boldly asked God if it is real and if He wanted me to have it, then I want it too, even if I don't understand it. I told God that I'm not going to flop around on the floor unless He puts me there. I'm not going to jump and dance or anything crazy unless He is doing it to me. As soon as I got those words out, I plainly and clearly heard Him say, "that is okay, Jesus did not do that either." However, I did wake up one Saturday morning speaking in tongues. It was the weirdest thing. Something, somehow, inside me told me I was quoting In Obadiah, the book. I didn't even know there was a book of Obadiah. I looked it up and read it and that has got to be my least favorite book in the OT. But if that is what it means to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, I want it. Anyway, just thought I'd share that.
  11. Ransol

    No New Revelation!

    Ok, I think I see what you mean. Paul didn't get Revelation of who Christ is and that He had to suffer and die for our sins. He didn' get Revelation of a new covenant replacing the old. He didn't get Revelation, he got understanding, because He got it from Scriptures that were already written, even though He called it revelation (something revealed, regardless of how it was revealed) and told us to seek it, too.
  12. Ransol

    No New Revelation!

    Not to be argumentative, but I do think it is possible for new revelation to come to those going thru the tribulation period, not that anything new will be writtn but new understanding of what was already written and sealed until that time. IDK.
  13. Ransol

    Is all sin the same?

    Believing in Christ is what puts us under the covenant of Grace. No one is disqualified.
  14. Ransol

    No New Revelation!

    No, I do not believe new scripture can be written. I am also not sure nt scripture is considered scripture by the OT Scriptures or by the apostles or by anyone but us. When Paul told Timothy that all scripture is God breathed, I'm not sure he was including the letter he was writing at the time. Don't misunderstand me here, I believe it is, with all my heart, I'm just not sure Paul knew it was.
  15. Ransol

    Is all sin the same?

    I'm not sure. Peter denied Christ. Judas never surrendered to Christ. Both will send you to Hell if not repented. Peter did, Judas didn't as far as we know. Peter was humbled, Judas took his own life--the most selfrighteous act trying to pay for his own sins. I believe Jesus would have forgave Judas, if he only asked.
×