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About actionsub

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  1. In my experience, some of the hardcore Oneness Pentecostals tie tongues speaking to salvation. The majority of Pentecostals, though, would draw a distinction between being saved and being filled or baptized with the Holy Spirit, with most official doctrinal statements saying that baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues occurs AFTER one is saved. Ex. The Assemblies of God "16 Fundamental Truths": [h=4]7. THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT[/h] All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian Church. With it comes the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry. Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 12: 1-31 This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth. Acts 8:12-17, 10:44-46, 11:4:16, 15:7-9 With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as: an overflowing fullness of the Spirit, John 7:37-39, Acts 4:8 a deepened reverence for God, Acts 2:43, Hebrews 12:28 an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work, Acts 2:42 and a more active love for Christ, for His Word and for the lost, Mark 16:20 [h=4]8. THE INITIAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT[/h] The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance. Acts 2:4 The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues, but is different in purpose and use. 1 Corinthians 12:4-10, 12:28
  2. actionsub

    Where most all Baptist Churches are unbiblical.

    Let me point out here that there are some Baptist denominations who do not teach OSAS, but hold to a squarely Arminian view. Those would be the General Baptists (lower midwest) and Free Will Baptists (southern and midwest states). Both GB's and Free Will teach that one can lose their salvation, and (at least for the General Baptists) once lost, one cannot return.
  3. actionsub

    First ordained gay minister

    There's a joke that says UCC is actually an abbreviation for "Unitarians Considering Christ"...
  4. actionsub

    First ordained gay minister

    Actually, such a person could even use the KJV and work around it. They will point to the six or seven such passages in the Testaments and say, "they have been wrongly interpreted all these years. They're not condemning ALL same-sex relations, just the ones that involve exploitation or paganism." I studied at a UCC seminary; this is their approach.
  5. actionsub

    The mission of Methodists?

    There is a flank group beginning to develop on the right: the Wesleyan Covenant Association. Plus, there's the "Good News" caucus that has been around since the early 70s. Good News is the one drawing a line in the sand of late over same-sex rights in the UMC. As far as "confessional" Methodism, probably outside of the Apostles' or Nicene Creeds, there really is no "confession" that they can gather around in the same way that Lutherans have the book of Concord and the Reformed have the Westminster Confession. John Wesley himself was not overly wild about confessions, being more concerned with "experiential salvation" rather than detailed faith statements. If any Methodist group really wanted to get confessional, it would probably require some alliance of sorts with the Anglican church from whence they splintered and their 39 Articles. Now Wesley did create his own sort of "Reader's Digest Condensed Version" of this Anglican confession, excising the parts he thought were too Calvinistic. This got further confused in the last century when the Methodist Episcopal Church (not to be confused with the Episcopalian denomination) merged with the Evangelical United Brethren (a similar group formed by German immigrants) to form the United Methodist Church. In their present form, the 25 Articles can be found here: http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/the-articles-of-religion-of-the-methodist-church The actual doctrinal standards come from Wesley's Notes on the New Testament and a four-volume collection of Wesley's Sermons.
  6. actionsub

    The mission of Methodists?

    I've never heard his beliefs stated as such. While the idea of salvation as a cure for original sin has some support, the world being "healed itself" merely from Christian influence sounds more like some liberal influence (and in United Methodism, there's plenty of it!) Most of the Methodists I know would probably reject that latter premise, and that any redemption of the world would only come with active Christian engagement and evangelism. Granted, there are a few that think if we all just play nice, the world will be a better place. Most of the latter were the Methodists I met in seminary; they did not tend to be the rank and file in the pews.
  7. actionsub

    The mission of Methodists?

    At the time I came in, the Methodists I knew were pretty much Baptists who believed in infant baptism but not eternal security. Basically, Methodists were a revival movement within the Church of England, spurred by John Wesley's embrace of Arminianism via a run in with some Moravians. John Wesley's big thing was the assurance of salvation, and a rather rigorous discipleship. There is a belief that one can be "perfected in love in this lifetime". (In practice, the chances of this are about equal to that of seeing Elvis rise from the dead.) What that tends to result in is one of two things: a somewhat legalistic approach to life to make sure you're holy by not doing anything but church, or an obsessive compulsion to be doing something, anything, for God all the time without rest. Over the years, I've found Wesley's journey similar to that of Luther's. It was hearing the preface to Luther's commentary on Romans that assured Wesley of his salvation. However, Wesley tended to be somewhat of an autocratic control freak. As far as influence, I'm actually finding LUTHER'S beliefs more of an influence these days, particularly his stress on making a distinction between law and gospel, while maintaining both have a necessary place in discipleship.
  8. actionsub

    The mission of Methodists?

    The current United Methodist mission statement is "making disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world".
  9. actionsub

    Should Adulterous Pastors Be Restored?

    Harrington, after his repentance in the 90s, blew into St. Louis like a hurricane. He got a number of local pastors to endorse him, bought daily time on a Christian radio station, and started crusading around Missouri and Illinois. He made grandiose promises, inviting a young woman at a rural Illinois church to come sing for him at a crusade in Washington DC. Not long after that, he came on the radio one day and announced without warning it would be his last day on the air and he was going back to New Orleans, no explanation given, and he was gone. Left me a bit skeptical as to how deep his restoration went.