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Greatest I am

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  1. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Thanks much. I like that you allow Lutheran views. Martin Luther was more of a Gnostic than you likely know. justme wrote this. "If your intention is to really determine if your Gnostic faith is worth believing in, that would be a good thing IMO," Shall I take it that that is not your view? Shall I also see what you put on proselytizing as a warning to not compare Gnostic Christianity to your ideology? Regards DL
  2. Because that is the reason Irenaeus gave and he is the one who decided on the four gospels. Yes. They have no Original sin concept as they did not think passing their sin up to their children was kosher as they would have had to ignore this wisdom the way Christians have to. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...tive-theodicy/ ‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’. Regards DL
  3. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Nice that you cannot kill me the way the old Christians did. Your fear of the truth is duly noted. I also note that you did not have time to listen to Bishop Spong. Regards DL
  4. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Good. If I am wasting my time in an intolerant site, as your flag indicate of your attitude, best to know it ASAP. Regards DL
  5. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    I join Christian forums because I was born R.C. I owe my old religion quite a bit for their social help even though I never believed in it's ideology. If I am to try to improve the reality of the whole world, which we should all be wanting to do, I should and do recognize that I should begin with my ex tribe as my first duty. Christianity has done and continues to a lot of damage to many, notably women and gays, as Christianity as a whole continues to promote homophobia and misogyny. My intention and desire is to show Christians that they are not following the best morals that their ideology can produce because of the way they are interpreting their myths. I do not want to have people desert Christianity so much as to have them hone it into the moral ideology it can be instead of what it is today. If your mods rid themselves of people who cause problem, I will not last long. The problem I cause is having people think out of their dogma and that is not allowed in most sites even though scriptures urge theists to do so to perfect their widom, which Christian dogma cannot do as it is faith and supernaturally based. Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Your beliefs are faith based and mine are more bible based and the church of today, as in older times, know that if people follow the bible they will know that the church is not required and that of course would be anathema to the church, as it would create a less top down organized church. That would lower revenues and the church wants to maintain revenues at any cost, includding the cost of following their satanic ideology. ""If your intention is to really determine if your Gnostic faith is worth believing in, that would be a good thing IMO. I hope that's your intention, and many will be willing the assist you in that effort."" I doubt that, as that has never been my experience to date, but you know the membership here more than I do and I am willing and eager to test that to see if you are right. I put Spongs moral view above on hell and substitutionary atonement which are both immoral tenets to me. If you think the membership here can have a look at those in an honest way, let me know and I can start an O.P. on either of those issues. I am also strongly against Jesus' no divorce policy as it is anti love and immoral so that could be a third option for you to choose from. I chose Gnostic Christianity because I determined that, as some have said, the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. Most here likely were born into their denomination and did not really choose it. That indoctrination is from our tribal instincts and peer pressure and is hard to break, especially when they cannot admit that they are following immoral tenets. Most of my writing is on moral tenets and Christians tend to run from those as they cannot argue for the tenets of their God. If you prefer I stick to proving my Gnostic Christian ideology is superior to Christianity's we can discuss the Jesus you know, who wants to slave you to Christianity and the Jesus I know who wants to free you from the dogma you follow. I believe this quote about your prophets. Do you? Isaiah 56:11) "They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18) That goes with this. Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Let me know your thoughts and your recommendation as to which issue you want me to use to test your view of your membership here. Regards DL
  6. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Yes, as they do not fear looking at their belief systems while being tolerant of the belief systems of others that are not faith based or supernatural based. In a sense, they follow scriptures better than theists that say that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. Christians read those and somehow think they can fathom the unfathomable, know the unknowable and have dithered out the mystery of God. Atheists, after reading those, can only conclude that the clergy is lying to their flock as that is obviously true. Christians are not as tolerant because their ideology does not stand up to logic, reason or moral fortitude. Christians have to go into intellectual and moral dissonance to believe as they do to follow their genocidal son murdering God, while saying that that evil monster is somehow good. You should know though that atheist sites do not interest me much as they, even as atheists are forming churches, mostly do not understand the value of local churches. Regards DL
  7. Greetings. Orthodox is just the most accepted view. Heresy is just a competing view. You spoke of objective and subjective moral views. Many Christians think that there are some objective moral truths that God has given us but I have yet to find one of those that were and thus see all moral tenets as subjective. Can you give what you think is an objective moral tenet? "The authoritative text of the Bible" I had a good chuckle on those words. How much authority should we give to a book that only has 4 gospels when the reason for just 4 is that there are only 4 seasons and 4 main compass points. I think it ludicrous to give the bible, a consolidation of many belief systems, authority. Myths and allegories are to be studied for their many ways of looking at things. Not given authority for anything. Take Eden for instance, Jews, the original authors, say it as where man was elevated. Christians see a fall. If we were to give the Jews their rightful authority as authors, Christian would have to scrap their Original sin concept and follow the actual bible which says that there is no such thing as Original sin. That aside. I dislike sending us off topic. What objective moral tenet do you know of? Regards DL
  8. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    I made that statement because I have never heard it in church and never saw a Christian quote it even though it is one of the main verses that show the path to God that Jesus taught. The explanation our friend gave for it shows he has never thought of it. He said "is about how one views the world" when all intelligent people know that it is an inner or inward seeing eye, more than an outward seeing eye. That was Jesus talking and here is wht he would have told our friend. John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Our spirit is within us. Note that even with that learned link I gave him, he still did not have a clue. That is the evil in idol worship instead of seeking God the way Jesus taught. Your forefathers, if I can use that term, murdered us with their Inquisitions for a reason. They did not understand Jesus and his way to salvation and could not best our arguments and that is why they chose to murder instead of using sound arguments to convert us. Regards DL
  9. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    I will not argue this idiotic notion that was forced into the church 300 years after Jesus died by Constantine. Been there and done that and I wish to discuss God and not stupid things. If you are interested in reading on it, try this. Originally Posted by animefan48 Well, the reality is most Christians do buy into the trinity doctrine because of persecution of the early Gnostics and non-Trinitarians, and the religious councils were dissenters were forced to agree to a Trinitarian theology. Many Unitarian and Universalist theologies argue that when Jesus said he was the way, he meant that he was an example of how to live to be united/reunited with God. As for the name, God does give other names for himself including the Alpha and Omega, as well as some believe a name that should not be written (or even spoken I believe). Honestly, I think using the name I Am That I Am would just be confusing and convoluted, seriously. I seriously do not believe that it is a continuation of Gnostic/mystical/Unitarian suppression. Even the Gnostic and mystical traditions within Islam and Christianity do not tend to use that name, and among the 99 Names of Allah, I did not find that one. Also, many Rastafarians believe that the Holy Spirit lives in humans and will sometimes say I and I instead of we, yet they don't seem to use the name I Am for God/Jah either, so I really don't think it can be related to suppressing mystical and Gnostic interpretations. I think that originally oppressing those ideas and decreeing them heretical are quite enough, the early Church did such a good job that after the split many Protestant groups continued to condemn mystical and later Gnostic sects and theologies. Yup, the bishops voted and it was settled for all time!!1 (Some say the preliminary votes were 150 something to 140 something in favor of the trinity) But then Constantine stepped in: After a prolonged and inconclusive debate, the impatient Constantine intervened to force an end to the conflict by demanding the adoption of the creed. The vote was taken under threat of exile for any who did not support the decision favored by Constantine. (And later, they fully endorsed the trinity idea when it all happened again at the council of Constantinople in AD 381, where only Trinitarians were invited to attend. Surprise! They also managed to carry a vote in favor of the Trinity.) http://home.pacific.net.au/~amaxwell/bdigest/bd12bbs.tx Even a Trinitarian scholar admits the Earliest & Original beliefs were NOT Trinitarian! The trinity formulation is a later corruption away from the earliest & original beliefs! "It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180 "In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament". R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173, 1980 The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament. New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306. "The formulation `One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299. "The formulation `One God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299). "Fourth-century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary a deviation from this teaching" (The Encyclopedia Americana, p. 1956, p. 2941). Was Jesus God to Paul and other early Christians? No. . . . . (Source: How the Bible became the Bible by Donald L. O'Dell - ISBN 0-7414-2993-4 Published by INFINITY Publishing.com) Constantine's Victory Arch says it all. http://www.simchajtv.com/movie-secrets-of-christianity-selling-christianity/ Regards DL
  10. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Your main 4 scriptures contradict each other, or had you not noticed that? What is the single eye if not a synonym for the third eye that the more Eastern religions use? Do you not believe the stories of Jesus gaining his wisdom in the East? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLVpTQJqijU You also say that the holy spirit live in believers and if so, why do believers do evil? Is having the holy spirit in one so worthless and ineffective in making us good that one can ignore a piece of God himself inside himself? I have claimed to have suffered an apotheosis and I can attest that when I found what you are calling the holy spirit inside of me, I certainly could not and cannot ignore it even at this moment. It is a hard task master. http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom-davies.html 2. Jesus said, "The seeker should not stop until he finds. When he does find he will be disturbed. After having been disturbed, he will be astonished. Then he will reign over everything. [Having reigned, he will rest.] 3a. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you 'Look! The Kingdom is in the sky!" Then the birds will be there before you are. If they say that the Kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before you are. Rather, the Kingdom is within you and it is outside of you. 3b. When you understand yourselves you will be understood. And you will realize that you are Sons of the living Father. If you do not know yourselves, then you exist in poverty and you are that poverty. God is said to be Omni-present, why do you deny that it also lives in non-believers, if there is such a person? Regards DL
  11. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    Thanks. We did mix for many years before Christians began to idol worship Yahweh instead of seeking God the way Jesus taught. My ideology is bible based so I don't know why you say we cannot mix. It is just that the quotes Christians cherry pick are not the ones I cherry pick. Take these for instance. I am willing to bet you have never heard or read them. Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Am I right and do you know what they mean? If not, this link goes into more detail. Regards DL
  12. Greatest I am

    Gnostic Christian

    I am a Gnostic Christian and tend to not last long in Christian sites. I guess that the reason for that is the same as it was when the early Christian church decimated us and burned our scripture. They could not take criticism well or argue against us in a reasonable way and chose to kill us instead. Can those here, including the mods handle criticism? I do try to be as civil as possible but know that even civil criticism is not tolerated well in many Christian sites Thoughts? Regards DL
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