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Does Paul condemn the gay lifestyle?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
    You really need to paragraph your thoughts -- or something. A few sentences at a time -- separated by a space or two would be much easier to read.
    Sure, it normally formats correctly.

    Moderation: Previous post was edited with correct format.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

      Sure, it normally formats correctly.

      Moderation: Previous post was edited with correct format.


      Your up-dated format is Much easier to read. The comment I was making is that homosexuality is only a sin IF acted upon. A person can be Tempted to engage in a physically intimate way with someone of their same sex -- but they have a choice as to whether or not they Act On it. A homosexual person is capable of Friendship -- it's the on-going life-style that is condemned. A person can have a problem with a certain sin -- maybe a bad temper -- they can learn to control their temper -- but , once in a while they will find themselves in a Bad situation and Loose it. They regret it / forgiveness -- but they Don't let it run their lives.

      No one wears a sign on them labeling them as a 'whatever' -- so - in reality -- unless a person is 'acting out' in public -- who would Know it Unless they Want everyone to know it. IF I saw two men saying hello or goodbye at a buss station or train or airlines and they kissed each other -- it would 'gross me out'. Or they were holding hands - it wouldn't look 'natural'. The same thing with two women. And there are times when it's perfectly natural for two men To hug each other. During times of grief or triumph or out on the football field. But those are not done in an affectionate way. It's a commradry thing. And women Do tend to Be huggers. But a person can tell 'natural' from too much affection.

      Society -- at least here in the U.S. isn't quite where Sodom and Gohmorrah were. God destroyed those cities. So, no, 'we' don't want to get that bad.
      Comment>

        #18
        Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
        The comment I was making is that homosexuality is only a sin IF acted upon.

        Where is THAT in the Bible?

        Remember Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

        I am sure this would apply to the sodomites and lesbians as well.


        Society -- at least here in the U.S. isn't quite where Sodom and Gohmorrah were. God destroyed those cities. So, no, 'we' don't want to get that bad.
        Oh, its getting pretty close, though, right? No offense intended. New Zealand is getting there as well.
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          #19
          Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

          Oh, its getting pretty close, though, right? No offense intended. New Zealand is getting there as well.

          How does a person Know Outwardly that a person Is a homosexual -- because of their Actions. I can't 'read' a person's heart. And I'm not in their bedroom -- and 'behind closed doors' is where intimate activity should be taking place. And then it's between that person and God.

          In the New Testament it says that a man is not to lay with another man or women with other women the same way that a man and women would act together. That is the 'act of'. taking place.

          And, there are many countries where that is true. I've heard that from people on another Forum. Another poster lives in another country and he said it's quite common to see men holding hands. People simply ignore it if they don't like it. The thought being that they are consenting adults and it's their own business.
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            #20
            Originally posted by Sue D. View Post


            How does a person Know Outwardly that a person Is a homosexual -- because of their Actions. I can't 'read' a person's heart. And I'm not in their bedroom -- and 'behind closed doors' is where intimate activity should be taking place. And then it's between that person and God.

            But if you do not rebuke them for their sin, the Bible says that you are just as guilty of the sin as they are.

            In the New Testament it says that a man is not to lay with another man or women with other women the same way that a man and women would act together. That is the 'act of'. taking place.

            True. It also says what i quoted above.

            And, there are many countries where that is true. I've heard that from people on another Forum. Another poster lives in another country and he said it's quite common to see men holding hands. People simply ignore it if they don't like it. The thought being that they are consenting adults and it's their own business.
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              #21
              Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

              And where does it say that if you don't rebuke them of their sin, you are just as guilty as they are?

              The law in This country has a person 'guilty by association' -- meaning that if you're in a group of people who are caught doing something illegal -- you , as an individual are as guilty of the 'whatever' as the people actually committing the crime - even if you are not the person actually doing the 'thing'. But that is civil law.

              Comment>

                #22
                Originally posted by Sue D. View Post


                And where does it say that if you don't rebuke them of their sin, you are just as guilty as they are?

                The law in This country has a person 'guilty by association' -- meaning that if you're in a group of people who are caught doing something illegal -- you , as an individual are as guilty of the 'whatever' as the people actually committing the crime - even if you are not the person actually doing the 'thing'. But that is civil law.
                First, if we dont warn a person, their blood is on OUR hands:

                Ezek. 3:18 "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."

                As for the being guilty of their sin if we dont warn them, i will have to get back to you on that, i cannot find it off the top of my head. If i forget to get back to you, please remind me.
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

                  First, if we dont warn a person, their blood is on OUR hands:

                  Ezek. 3:18 "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."

                  As for the being guilty of their sin if we dont warn them, i will have to get back to you on that, i cannot find it off the top of my head. If i forget to get back to you, please remind me.

                  This is Ezekiel talking to the House of Israel. I don't see That passage as having anything to do with us - now.

                  Actually -- each person is responsible to God for their actions. And, we Can warn a person of their actions If they are willing to listen -- and if we have justifiable cause To approach another person about their actions. If a person is part of our family - we can talk with them - not preach At them. The teens our teens run around with. As a parent - as my kids are growing up - I do have responsibility to guide them. In God's Word. Regarding His guidelines for relationships. But - as teens approach adulthood -- they are responsible to God for their decisions. Their 'blood' is Not on my hands. There are times when teens / adult children Will make choices that we won't agree with. Does it affect their salvation?

                  I'm also NOT condoning illicit sexual relationships. My older daughter has been in and out of several relationships with various men over the past few years. She definitely has problems. And she's also back into counseling on her own volition.
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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Sue D. View Post


                    This is Ezekiel talking to the House of Israel. I don't see That passage as having anything to do with us - now.

                    Actually -- each person is responsible to God for their actions. And, we Can warn a person of their actions If they are willing to listen -- and if we have justifiable cause To approach another person about their actions. If a person is part of our family - we can talk with them - not preach At them. The teens our teens run around with. As a parent - as my kids are growing up - I do have responsibility to guide them. In God's Word. Regarding His guidelines for relationships. But - as teens approach adulthood -- they are responsible to God for their decisions. Their 'blood' is Not on my hands. There are times when teens / adult children Will make choices that we won't agree with. Does it affect their salvation?

                    I'm also NOT condoning illicit sexual relationships. My older daughter has been in and out of several relationships with various men over the past few years. She definitely has problems. And she's also back into counseling on her own volition.
                    There are other verses, but i cant find them just yet.
                    Comment>

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                      I'm also NOT condoning illicit sexual relationships. My older daughter has been in and out of several relationships with various men over the past few years. She definitely has problems. And she's also back into counseling on her own volition.
                      So you dont tell someone who is sinning that they are sinning?

                      let and let live, huh?
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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

                        So you dont tell someone who is sinning that they are sinning?

                        let and let live, huh?


                        She knows quite well how we feel about her friends and what Scripture says. Her older of two sons -- our grandson -- died 5 yrs ago -- a victim of the choking / fainting 'game'. They were warned about numerous things in their family life. They chose to 'let kids be kids' and it backfired very tragically. Ben was on life-support until noon the following day. She prayed that God would see fit to 'raise Ben up like God allowed a ram to be caught in Isaac's place , but He didn't. Ben died and she was devastated. Went a bit 'off' for a while. A rebound marriage for both of them. Another divorce for Debs and in and out of various relationships since then. In and out of a couple of mental health facilities and on meds now.

                        Does the previous paragraph sound like 'live and let live' on our part?!
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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Sue D. View Post



                          She knows quite well how we feel about her friends and what Scripture says. Her older of two sons -- our grandson -- died 5 yrs ago -- a victim of the choking / fainting 'game'. They were warned about numerous things in their family life. They chose to 'let kids be kids' and it backfired very tragically. Ben was on life-support until noon the following day. She prayed that God would see fit to 'raise Ben up like God allowed a ram to be caught in Isaac's place , but He didn't. Ben died and she was devastated. Went a bit 'off' for a while. A rebound marriage for both of them. Another divorce for Debs and in and out of various relationships since then. In and out of a couple of mental health facilities and on meds now.

                          Does the previous paragraph sound like 'live and let live' on our part?!
                          That does not answer my question.

                          The question was "So you dont TELL someone who is sinning that they are sinning?"

                          Unless you can answer this, im done with this.
                          Comment>

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                            There are other verses, but i cant find them just yet.
                            I notice you didn't address this yet from Sue, "This is Ezekiel talking to the House of Israel. I don't see That passage as having anything to do with us - now."

                            I'm curious as to whether you're are going to address it? Especially after reading your post on the Amill position, and I'm also under the impression that you reject Covenant theology?

                            God bless,
                            William


                            Comment>

                              #29
                              Originally posted by William View Post

                              I notice you didn't address this yet from Sue, "This is Ezekiel talking to the House of Israel. I don't see That passage as having anything to do with us - now."

                              I'm curious as to whether you're are going to address it? Especially after reading your post on the Amill position, and I'm under the impression that you also reject Covenant theology?

                              God bless,
                              William




                              I will address her point when she addresses mine. One thing at a time.

                              I just want to know if she TELLS sinners that they are sinning.

                              I mean, someone KNOWING you dont like thei sin is one thing. But TELLING them that they are sinning and here it is in the Bible, and here in the BIble is the way out into everlasting life is anothing thing.

                              Did Jesus pull sinners over? yes.
                              Comment>

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                                Does the previous paragraph sound like 'live and let live' on our part?!
                                No it doesn't.

                                And I'd like to remind members that there is a "Flag" post option for responses you yourselves deem inappropriate.

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                                God bless,
                                William
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