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Debate: A Christian wife...

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  • Debate: A Christian wife...

    ROUND ONE
    Topic: A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head.




    Faber will defend the affirmative.
    atpollard will defend the negative.

    Faber you have 48 hours to make your post here in this thread.

    No one is allow to post comments until the debate is finished.
    Last edited by Origen; 09-20-2016, 06:53 AM.

  • #2
    It is unnecessary for me to explain that a Christian wife does not have to be obedient to her husband if he commands her to sin since atpollard has already expressed that this need not be discussed.
    See post #33
    Rules For Debates -Christforums

    Ephesians 5:23 (cf. 1 Corinthians 11:3)
    For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. (NASB)
    A. The Greek word for 'head' is kephalē and as properly defined demonstrates that the husband of the Christian wife is her 'lord/master/head'.
    1. Frederick Danker: in the case of living beings, to denote superior rank..of the father as head of the family Hs 7, 3; of the husband in relation to his wife 1 Cor 11:3b; Eph 5:23a (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, kephalē, page 542).
    2. Joseph Thayer: Metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent; of persons, master, lord: of a husband in relation to his wife, 1 Co. 11:3; Eph. 5:23 (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, kephalē, page 345).
    Strong's Greek: 2776. κεφαλή (kephalé) -- the head
    3. William Mounce: kephalē is also used figuratively to mean a higher position of authority. Jesus is the head of every power and authority in the universe (Eph. 1:22; Col. 2:10). Moreover, Jesus is the head of the church, which is his body (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; Col. 1:18; 2:19). Paul speaks of the husband as the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 5:23) (Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Head, pages 323-324).
    4. J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida: one who is of supreme or pre-eminent status, in view of authority to order or command - 'one who is the head of, one who is superior to, one who is supreme over,'...Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ 1 Cor 11.3 (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, kephalē, 87.51, page 739).

    Ephesians 5:24
    But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. (NASB)
    A. The Greek word for 'subject' is hypotassō and as properly defined demonstrates that the Christian wife is to submit in all things (except sin) to her husband. This submission entails obedience.
    1. Frederick Danker: subject oneself, be subjected or subordinated, obey abs. (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, hypotassō, page 1042).
    2. Joseph Thayer: to subject one's self, to obey (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, hypotassō, page 645).
    Strong's Greek: 5293. ὑποτάσσω (hupotassó) -- to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
    3. EDNT: subordination, obedience, wives toward their husbands (Col 3:18; Eph 5:24b; 1 Peter 3:1, 5; Titus 2:5) (3:408, hypotassō, R. Bergmeier).

    Ephesians 5:33
    Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband. (NASB)
    A. The Greek word for 'respects' is phobeō (a 'phobia' is a 'fear') and as properly defined demonstrates that a Christian wife is to fear her husband.
    1. Fredrick Danker: to have a profound measure of respect for, (have) reverence, respect, w. special ref. to fear of offending (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, phobeō, 1061).
    2. W. E. Vine: in Eph. 5:33 of reverential fear on the part of a wife for a husband, AV, "reverence" (RV, "fear"). (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Reverence).
    Link
    3. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: "fear" (Ephesians 5:33 the King James Version)...is used to set forth the attitude of proper subjection on the part of a wife toward her husband (compare 1 Peter 3:2, 1 Peter 3:5). (Reverence, E. J. Forrester) Reverence - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
    Concerning Ephesians 5:33 four Bible versions read as follows:
    (1) But each individual man among you must love his wife as he loves himself; and may the wife fear her husband. (ISV) Ephesians 5:33 ISV - But each individual man among you must - Bible Gateway
    (2) But ye also, every one of you, let each so love his own wife as himself; but as to the wife [I speak] that she may fear the husband. (Darby Translation)
    Ephesians 5:32-33 DARBY - This mystery is great, but *I* speak as - Bible Gateway
    (3) Therefore everyone of you, do ye so: let everyone love his wife, even as himself, and let the wife see that she fear her husband. (1599 Geneva Bible)
    Ephesians 5:33 GNV - Therefore everyone of you, do ye so: - Bible Gateway
    (4) Nevertheless ye all, each man love his wife as himself; and the wife dread her husband. (Wycliffe Bible)
    Ephesians 5:33 WYC - Nevertheless ye all, each man love his - Bible Gateway

    1 Peter 3:6
    just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear. (NASB)
    A. Just as Sara viewed Abraham as her lord/master/head and was obedient unto him so too a Christian wife is to view her husband in the same manner.
    1. TDNT: In marriage Christianity demands the subordination of the wife (Eph. 5:22, 24; Col. 3:18; 1 Pt. 3:1, 5 [v.6: kyrios]) but also unselfish love from the husband such as that shown by Christ for the Church (Eph. 5:25, 28; Col. 3:19; 1 Pt. 3:7). (1:362-363, anēr, Oepke).
    2. NIDNTT: In 1 Pet. 3:6 her obedient attitude to her husband is set out as the pattern which Christian wives should follow (1:80, Abraham - subdivided 'Sarah' - P. J. Budd).
    3. EDNT: Sarah's obedience toward Abraham is presented as a model for wives (->6)...Peter concludes its admonitions to wives (3:1-6) with a reference to Sarah, who according to v.6 obediently subordinated herself to her husband for she called him her lord (Gen 18:12) (3:395, hypakouō, G. Schneider).
    4. NIDNTT: The husband faces his wife as kyrios, i.e. as superior (1 Pet. 3:6; cf. Gen. 18:12 LXX) (2:513, Lord, H. Bietenhard).

    It is quite obvious that a Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head.
    Comment>

    • #3
      atpollard you have 48 hours to respond.

      No one is allow to post comments until the debate is finished.
      Last edited by Origen; 09-21-2016, 05:42 AM.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Before we begin, thank you for this opportunity. If we are honest, I am more of a Theology 'brawler' than a 'debater' (ask William), but I am resolved to attempt to behave myself and excited to participate in my first formal debate. With a little prayer and grace, we can enjoy more light than heat. :)

        "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head."

        Words have power. Power to heal and power to harm. Let's start by taking a quick peek at some simple definitions for some key words in the topic by just Googling the most common meanings ...
        obey: to do what someone tells you to do or what a rule, law, etc., says you must do
        husband: a married man : the man someone is married to
        fear: to be afraid of (something or someone) : to expect or worry about (something bad or unpleasant) : to be afraid and worried
        lord: one having power and authority over others
        master: a man who has people working for him, especially servants or slaves.
        head: the part of the body containing the brain, eyes, ears, nose, and mouth : a person's mental ability : mind or intellect : a person who has a specified mental or emotional quality

        This is what the secular world hears when we speak. I could almost live with that, except too often this is what Christendom hears as well. Especially new Christians who have fallen under bad teaching. When I read the topic of this debate, I was immediately reminded of a famous quote:

        "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

        Fortunately for us, I happen to have a copy of the owner's manual written by the Original Manufacturer Himself. Like most owner's manuals, it can be a little hard to understand at first. However, it is full of important information that will enable us to get the most out of our Husband-Wife-Marriage relationship and keep it running in top shape for many years to come. So let's take a look.


        I. DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE?

        Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

        People are made from the most basic and common of stuff, the dust of the ground. In other parts of the Bible, when it mentions 'dust', it is referring to things of little worth and to things that are lowly and humble. So we are not made from something evil, and we are not made from nothing ... but we are made from next to nothing. Even the word 'living being' isn't special, it is the same phrase used in Gen 1:21 for the animals. So what makes people special?

        First, God merely 'spoke' all of creation into being except people. For His people, that was too impersonal, so God got down in the dust of the ground and 'formed' us. Yet even the touch of God was still too impersonal for our creator. 'Ruach' ... it means 'breath or spirit' in Hebrew. [As a bonus trivia, Greek (pneuma) and Latin (spiritus) also mean both 'breath' and 'spirit'.] So God formed us with his hands and placed his lips over our nose and breathed HIS life/spirit/breath into us. What is spectacular in a human being is not the dust, it is the Divine Breath. This is what makes people the only living beings made "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:26-27). God made Man by putting God’s Breath and God’s Spirit within us.

        "The implication, readily seen by any Hebrew reader, [is] that man was specially created by God's breathing some of His own breath into him." (Boice)


        Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

        Note that the first thing that God found that was "not good" was our aloneness. We are not created or intended to be alone, we are created to be part of both a family and a community. So God created for us a perfectly suitable "HELPER" (not a servant and definitely not a slave). The woman is not only a ‘helper’, but she was made a ‘suitable helper', thus a Godly man will treat and honor her as such … an equal partner in God's grace and an equal human being.


        Genesis 2:21-22 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

        Eve was created from Adam's own body. Husbands and wives may be different in many ways, but we are made of the same stuff, so we are more alike than different. The dust that God shaped with his hands to form Adam, also formed Eve. The same breath from God's lips that gave Adam life, is in Eve. They shared the same flesh, the same blood, the same breath.

        There is a beautiful Jewish tradition saying God made woman, not out of man's foot to be under him, nor out of his head to be over him, but "She was taken from under his arm that he might protect her and from next to his heart that he might love her." (Barnhouse)

        God created Eve out of Adam and brought Eve to Adam. Adam was first (the source and the head) and Eve was created to be a helper perfectly suited to him. The subordinate (but not inferior) relationship of wives to husbands is found before the curse. It is part of how God intended things to be. God gave the "plan" to Adam and wanted Adam and Eve to work together to fulfill it.

        As men, we have been given the responsibility and, more importantly the accountability, to be the 'leader' in our home. This does not mean that a husband does not help his wife. It means that God looks down on our family and sees the husband in leadership ... good or bad, faithful or not ... and the responsibility for that leadership falls squarely on the shoulders of the husband. A true leader helps the people that are helping him. Part of the problem is our tendency to see 'helping' as a position of inferiority. We human beings have been corrupted by the World around us. When we can screw our heads on straight, we will see that God - whom we all claim to seek to emulate - views 'service' as the highest and most important thing we can do. But don't take my word for it, read it for yourself:

        Matthew 20:25-28 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


        II. HOW CAN TWO BECOME ONE?

        Genesis 2:23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
        Ephesians 5:28-29 “so husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it.”
        1 Peter 3:7 “Likewise you husbands, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel.”


        Adam immediately saw the essential ‘oneness’ between husband and wife. He saw that Eve was both like him and not like him. Even though Adam and Eve had been created from the same body, she was not the same as him. Two people had to learn to become one flesh. The husband has someone he must learn to understand.

        “No one walks into a room and seeks the most uncomfortable seat. The natural concern we have for ourselves causes us to take care of ourselves. In a healthy marriage relationship the husband realizes the essential union he has with his wife, that he cannot bless her without blessing himself and he cannot mistreat or neglect her without mistreating or neglecting himself.” [Guzik]

        Men and women are different, but are they equal?
        "In what sense is red equal to blue? They are equal only in the sense that both are colors in the spectrum. Apart from that they are different. In what sense is hot equal to cold? They are both temperatures, but beyond this it is almost meaningless to talk about equality." [Elisabeth Elliot]


        Genesis 2:24-25 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

        Marriage, as defined by God rather than Google, is a dynamic thing. It is all about 'oneness' and it is all about 'distinct' individuals. Anyone who has never been married will probably never understand and anyone who has been married will say "Amen." Notice the leave and join. These are deliberate actions, not something done by accident or chance. It is a spiritual act of "oneness". Notice the phrase "one flesh". It is related to sexual union, but sexual union is only part of the equation. Never loose sight of the spiritual dimension. Take a moment to glance at 1 Corinthians 6:16 and note that there are spiritual implications whether you want it or not ... even sex with a prostitute! So your only real choice is to become 'one flesh' as husband and wife under God's blessing, or to become 'one flesh' under God's curse.

        In for a penny, in for a pound ... let's talk about "naked".
        It ain't just about nudity. Adam and Eve, every husband and wife, are called to be 'naked' and 'not ashamed'. It is a call to be totally open and exposed as a person before God and your spouse. Naked and not ashamed means you have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. That is not what fallen people want. Fallen people want to hide behind masks and control what we reveal to others. That may work for out in the world, but not in the marriage. To “become one flesh” means to be seen, open, vulnerable to your spouse.

        Naked and not ashamed is something not to be taken lightly.
        Naked and not ashamed is something to be guarded closely.
        Naked and not ashamed is something not shared with others outside of the marriage.
        Naked and not ashamed is something that, if damaged, is not quickly or easily repaired.


        III. SO WHY THE HECK HAVE I SPENT SO MUCH TIME IN GENESIS?

        Like I said in the beginning, I have a copy of the owner's manual. This is the part of the owner's manual that tells you how this marriage is supposed to run. Before worrying about the parts of the manual that deal with how to troubleshoot problems, I thought it would be nice to see what a HUSBAND is, what a WIFE is and how a MARRIAGE runs.

        All of this is Pre-Fall. This is how we were made to operate.

        Notice how different a picture this paints of what God intends, from the image of wife/servant/slave fearful of the man with power/authority over her who will do all of the thinking.

        "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head." ... Not really the ‘helper’ image I get from reading God's Owner’s Manual (the Bible).
        Last edited by atpollard; 09-21-2016, 03:42 PM. Reason: Fix typo
        Comment>

        • #5
          Round Two

          Faber you have 48 hours to respond.

          No one is allow to post comments until the debate is finished.
          Last edited by Origen; 09-22-2016, 04:05 PM.
          Comment>

          • #6
            We were told that "words have power". To that I will add that words also have meaning. The authoritative sources I have cited clearly demonstrate the position I am affirming. What we have seen in response to my post is the definitions of the words but devoid of the context to which they are found. In fact, not one Greek lexicon and/or theological dictionary was ever even mentioned to refute in any way that which I have affirmed. Thus 100% of the sources so far affirm my position and 0% affirm my opponent's position.

            The Christian is under the commands of the New Covenant. This debate concerns itself with a "Christian wife". As such what is taught in 1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 5:23, 24, 33 and 1 Peter 3:6 is binding upon her.
            Comment>

            • #7
              "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head."

              I have been accused of failing to properly define the words in the topic based upon the authoritative definition of the words from their original Greek in the context in which they are found. This is a shortcoming I intend to address immediately.


              IV. WORDS THAT CAN HURT

              I am indebted to my brother in Christ for so thoroughly defining what he means by the words in the topic. If I have understood, then the correct interpretation of each critical term can be found as follows:

              Obey = hypotassō (per Ephesians 5:24)
              fear = phobeō (per Ephesians 5:33)
              lord/master/head = kyrios (per 1 Peter 3:6) & kephalē (per Ephesians 5:23 & 1 Corinthians 11:3)


              I am a simple man who prefers simple resources, so I will turn to Strong’s for confirmation of the definitions:
              (G5293) ὑποτάσσω hypotássō, hoop-ot-as'-so; from G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:—be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
              (G5399) φοβέω phobéō, fob-eh'-o; from G5401; to frighten, i.e. (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e. revere:—be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.
              (G2962) κύριος kýrios, koo'-ree-os; from κῦρος kŷros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):—God, Lord, master, Sir.
              (G2776) κεφαλή kephalḗ, kef-al-ay'; from the primary κάπτω káptō (in the sense of seizing); the head (as the part most readily taken hold of), literally or figuratively:—head.


              Since the secret of communication is learning to “listen” rather than simply “waiting to speak”, I would like to take a moment to make sure that I have understood the affirmative position:
              "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head."

              means …
              "A Christian wife is to [hypotassō] her husband in all things (except sin) in [phobeō] of him since he is her [kyrios] & [kephalē]."

              Clarifying from the Affirmative Definitions presented in the opening the topic, it could be restated as …
              "A Christian wife is to [subject oneself, be subjected or subordinated, obey] her husband in all things (except sin) in [the attitude of proper subjection, fear of offending, reverential fear] of him since he [is supreme or preeminent over his wife, superior in rank]."

              (begin sarcasm)
              How could any Christian woman possibly object to a call to be subjected and subordinated to her husband in all thing (except sin) in fear of offending him since he is both supreme and preeminent over his wife?
              I can almost see the women of the world being irresistibly drawn to a Lord and Savior who calls them to such a chattel status!
              Fear not, it’s not as bad as it seems … the husband is supposed to try and love you.
              (end sarcasm)



              V. SAY IT AIN’T SO: SUBMISSION IN GENERAL

              Words and dictionaries are good, but Scripture read in context is better. So let’s take a close look at Ephesians Chapter 5.

              "The danger is that we should think of marriage amongst Christians as essentially the same as it is with everybody else, the only difference being that these two people happen to be Christians whereas the others are not. Now if that is still our conception of marriage then we have considered this great paragraph entirely in vain. Christian marriage, the Christian view of marriage, is something that is essentially different from all views." (D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones)


              Ephesians 5:15-20
              Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.


              I know the part about Husbands and Wives starts at verse 22, but I would like to take a moment to examine the verses immediately before it. In Ephesians 5:15-17, we are warned to tread with care because the days are evil. There are forces that want your marriage to fail. Forces within you and forces outside of you. God wants your marriage to succeed. Be careful how you walk and seek God’s wisdom to get you through the snares of the enemy. In Ephesians 5:18-20, is the call to be filled with the Spirit, how to address one another, and giving thanks always, also meant for at home? Is there one standard for how we are to live, or two (public and private)? If one standard, then how much more does the husband owe everything God commands him to give to the Body of Christ to his wife? If one standard, then how much more does the wife owe everything God commands her to give to the Body of Christ to her husband?


              Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

              If you (husband and wife) respect Christ, if you belong to Him, if your life is guided by His Holy Spirit, then you will live in mutual submission – “to one another” – and you will do it for God, not for man. So what does “submit” (hypotassō) actually mean? Literally, (hypo) “under” + (tassō) “authority, order”. The origin of the word is a Greek military term meaning to arrange troop divisions in a military fashion under the command of a leader. So a practical application would be a specific Corporal might be smarter or more talented that a specific Sergeant, but he is still expected to respect the rank. We are called to the same respect to a God-appointed order. In non-military use, it is a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden. We, as Christians, do not have Generals and Privates. We are instead called to be ‘brothers’ and ‘servants’ of one another. God is calling us to adopt this military ‘under rank’ attitude and to apply it to dealing with one another. How, you ask? Strip away our attitude of individuality, stop asking what is best for me, and start thinking about what is best for the whole unit. Do not miss the importance of our motive. This is not done out of some social kindness. This is not done because it is commanded by the Law. This is done for Jesus, because when you love and respect Jesus, you care about pleasing Him and don’t want to disappoint Him.


              VI. SAY IT AIN’T SO: THE WIFE

              Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

              Pay attention here. God is trying to teach us about SUBMISSION (as we have just shown it applies to all Christians), so he focuses on Wives before Husbands, Children before Parents and Slaves before Masters. Since we are called to a general submission to one another, how much more are we called to submit in our special relationships. To submit means nothing more and nothing less than the recognition that someone has legitimate authority over you. To acknowledge that the individual is not more important than the team.
              Let me use the English word to illustrate. Submission is not inferiority. Submission is not silence. Submission is “Sub” + “Mission”. There you have it in a nutshell. We yield to the greater mission to obey and glorify God by placing ourselves under that greater mission. My mission is more important than my personal desires. Therefore, the submitting wife is not placing herself below her husband, she is placing herself below the mission God has for their marriage and her life.

              So what does it mean for a wife to submit “As to the Lord”?
              1. The husband is like god in his home? … sorry, that is wrong.
              2. It is the wife’s job to decide if husband is following the lord and only then should she submit? … sorry, this is also wrong.
              As to the Lord means it is part of her Christian life and her duty as a wife and a follower of Christ. It has nothing to do with her personality and everything to do with a different way to live that sets us apart from our culture. It is not about the husband, it is about honoring Jesus Christ. It is not about whether the husband is right, it is about Jesus being right.

              "There can be no more compelling motive for any action than this; and every Christian wife who is concerned above everything else to please the Lord Jesus Christ, will find no difficulty in this paragraph; indeed it will be her greatest delight to do what the Apostle tells us here." (Lloyd-Jones)


              Ephesians 5:23-24
              For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


              God is not an idiot. He knows that Ephesians 5:22 is going to be a hard pill to swallow, so he takes the time to explain his reasons. God doesn’t owe us a why, but I am grateful for the times he chooses to provide one anyway. Ephesians 5:22 tells us that obedience and respect for Jesus means showing obedience and respect for your husband. Ephesians 5:23 tells us that the husband has both the appropriate responsibility to lead and accountability for his leadership. God will hold him accountable for his leadership, so it is right to submit to him. From our discussion of Genesis, we can see that the different roles between men and women are not the result of the fall. So they have not been erased by Jesus.

              "What he is saying is that the woman is different, that she is the complement of the man. What he does prohibit is that woman should seek to be manly, that is, that a woman should seek to behave as a man, or that a woman should seek to usurp the place, the position, and the power which have been given to man by God Himself. That is all he is saying. It is not slavery; he is exhorting his readers to realize what God has ordained." (Lloyd-Jones)


              “As Christ is head of the church” suggests that the husband and wife relationship presents to the World a model of the relationship between Christ and the Church. This cuts both ways since the Christ-Church relationship also presents for us a perfect model for how God intends a Christian Marriage to work. We can see the unquestioned headship, the one “team”, one flesh, one body.

              We as human beings may want the mutual submission of the husband to wife and wife to husband, but the Bible shows submission as one direction since masters are never told to submit to slaves, parents never submit to children, and Jesus never submits to the Church.

              "What, then, is the doctrine? It is clearly this. The wife is the one who is kept, preserved, guarded, shielded, provided for by the husband. That is the relationship - as Christ nourishes and cherishes the church, so the husband nourishes and cherishes the wife - and the wife should realize that that is her position in this relationship." (Lloyd-Jones)

              "We can sum it up thus: The teaching is that the initiative and the leadership are ultimately the husband's, but the action must always be coordinated. That is the meaning of this picture - coordinated action but leadership in the head. There is no sense of inferiority suggested by this. The wife is not inferior to her husband; she is different." (Lloyd-Jones)


              VII. SAY IT AIN’T SO: THE HUSBAND

              Ephesians 5:25-27
              Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.


              Reality check. God provides a safeguard for the wife. Just as surely as the wife is commanded to submit to her husband, the husband is COMMANDED to love his wife. No husband can ever act as a tyrant without earning the wrath of God. Consider for a moment 2 Timothy 1:7 “God has given us the spirit of power AND love” and realize that power is always to be exercised in love.

              Since we are fond of Greek words, let’s talk about ‘love’ (Ephesians 5:25). The word is the famous ‘agape’. (eros) is love driven by desire and (philia) is love driven by affection. Both are ‘feelings’ and are important and should be present. However, (agape) is love driven by a decision and is more self denial for the sake of another.

              "Agape has to do with the mind: it is not simply an emotion which rises unbidden in our hearts; it is a principle by which we deliberately live." (Barclay)

              So husbands, pay attention here. God is not saying ‘be kind’ or ‘be nice’ to your wife. God is saying ‘continually practice self-denial’ for the sake of your wife. If Jesus and the Church illustrate a husband’s love for his wife, then a loveless marriage does not please God or fulfill his purpose. Remember Jesus’ example. Marriage is love given to the undeserving. It is love given first. It is love that may be rejected … but it still loves. Jesus has a special love for his the Church and husband should have a special love for his bride.

              "I ask you to notice what is not always the case with regard to the husband and the wife, that the Lord Jesus loves his church unselfishly; that is to say, he never loved her for what she has, but what she is; nay, I must go further than that, and say that he loved her, not so much for what she is, but what he makes her as the object of his love. He loves her not for what comes to him from her, or with her, but for what he is able to bestow upon her. His is the strongest love that ever was." (Spurgeon)

              Worldly headship: "I am your head, so you take your orders from me and must do whatever I say."
              Godly headship: "I am your head, so I must care for you and serve you."

              Worldly submission: "You must submit to me, so here are the things I want you to do for me."
              Godly submission: "You must submit to me, so I am accountable before God for you. I must care for you and serve you."


              Ephesians 5:28-29
              In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—


              The wife is not ‘like’ the husband’s own body, she ‘IS’ his body, part of him, just as surely as Eve was part of Adam.

              "The Apostle puts it in this form in order that a husband may see that he cannot detach himself from his wife. You cannot detach yourself from your body, so you cannot detach yourself from your wife. She is a part of you, says the Apostle, so remember that always. (Lloyd-Jones)

              "The husband must realize that his wife is a part of himself. He will not feel this instinctively; he has to be taught it; and the Bible in all its parts teaches it. In other words, the husband must understand that he and his wife are not two: they are one." (Lloyd-Jones)

              Stop just focusing on ‘feelings’ and THINK about marriage because it will never work if we never think about it. When we love our wife, we benefit ourselves, and when we neglect our wife, we neglect ourselves. If we neglect that noise coming from the engine in our car, how does that turn out for us? Well, she is a part of us!

              "On the practical level, therefore, the whole of the husband's thinking must include his wife also. He must never think of himself in isolation or detachment. The moment he does so he has broken the most fundamental principle of marriage. In a sense, the moment a man thinks of himself in isolation he has broken the marriage. And he has no right to do that! There is a sense in which he cannot do it, because the wife is a part of himself. But if it happens he is certain to inflict grievous damage on his wife; and it is damage in which he himself will be involved because she is a part of him." (Lloyd-Jones)


              VIII. SAY IT AIN’T SO: CHRIST AND THE CHURCH

              Ephesians 5:30-33
              for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


              The same intimacy, love, and sharing that an ideal husband and wife share, is what Jesus wants with His people. Just like Adam and Eve, God does the tearing apart and the binding together, so if you have a problem with it, talk to God.

              To summarize Ephesians 5: Husbands, you and your wife are one. Wives, unity has a head in your husband.

              I could go on to discuss 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Peter 3, but there would be little point. The truth of God does not change and we would only find more of the same. Besides, this response is getting pretty long as it is. Time to bring it home.


              IX. WORDS THAT CAN HEAL

              Now that we have looked at the plan of God for Husbands, Wives and Marriage both before the fall (in Genesis) and as explained by Christ and his Church (in Ephesians), lets go back to the topic, insert those words and see if we can figure out what God was really saying.

              "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head."

              "A Christian wife is to [hypotassō] her husband in all things (except sin) in [phobeō] of him since he is her [kyrios] & [kephalē]."

              "A Christian wife is to [follow, by stripping away her attitude of individuality and thinking about what is best for the whole ‘unit’] her husband in all things (except sin) in [honor, respect] of him since he is her [lover and protector, accountable before God to care for her and serve her.]."


              How could any Christian woman possibly object to a that call?
              I can see the women of the world being irresistibly drawn to a Lord and Savior who calls them to such a status!

              (no sarcasm this time)

              I hope this encourages and edifies.
              God Bless,

              Arthur
              Comment>

              • #8
                Finally Round: Summations\Closing Remarks

                Faber you 48 hours to post.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  I agree with much of what atpollard has expressed in his previous post concerning the duties of both husband and wife. Since the topic of this debate concerns itself with the duties of the wife is why I focused my responses accordingly. However, in my first response I chose not to edit the responsibility of the husband as seen in the TDNT (see 1 Peter 3:6, #1). To this I can add the following:
                  Husbands
                  a. Are you ravished with love for your wife (Proverbs 5:19)?
                  b. Do you attempt to love your wife as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25)?
                  c. Do you hold any kind of bitterness against your wife (Colossians 3:19)?
                  d. Do you have a special honor for your wife in your heart (1 Peter 3:7)?
                  Wives
                  a. Barring sin (Acts 5:29) are you willing to submit to your husband in everything (Ephesians 5:24)?
                  b. Do you have a godly fear for your husband (Ephesians 5:33)?
                  c. Do you treat your husband as the God appointed master of your marriage (1 Peter 3:6)?
                  d. Do you have a gentle and quiet spirit (1 Peter 3:4) speaking the law of kindness (Proverbs 31:26)?


                  atpollard wrote the following:

                  "Words and dictionaries are good, but Scripture read in context is better."

                  What this means is because the words of the Bible as properly defined are not agreeable with him then they ought to be rejected. Furthermore, making an appeal that Scripture is to be read in context is a false dilemma. This is one of the ways how lexicographers derive the meaning of words. This approach didn't just happen to escape their notice.
                  Humpty Dumpty said, "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean" ('Through the Looking-Glass').
                  It would be indeed foolish to engage in fairy tale definitions as to how the words of the Bible are properly defined just because one doesn't 'approve' of what they teach. If everyone engaged in this kind of approach communication would simply break down.

                  I have cited plenty of authoritative lexicons and other sources to back up how the specific Greek words I pointed out in my original post are properly defined.
                  Here's one more from Kenneth Wuest concerning phobeō in Ephesians 5:33 -
                  Expositors defines "fear in the sense of reverence, spontaneous, obedient regard." (Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume 1, Ephesians, page 135)
                  Once a person takes the 'Humpty Dumpty approach' in redefining the words of the Bible it wouldn't matter how many lexicons, dictionaries and encyclopedias are cited. Their minds are already made up against the plain teaching of Scripture. May each one of us humble ourselves to what God has declared.
                  My heart standeth in awe of Thy word (Psalm 119:161).

                  I'll conclude my final response by citing David Guzik. The reason why is because atpollard cited him concerning Genesis 2:23 in post #4, in part #2 ('How Can Two Become One?').
                  Concerning Ephesians 5:22 David Guzik writes:
                  It is true that the wife owes the husband a great deal of respect. Peter sets this across when he praises Sarah, the wife of Abraham, as an example of a godly wife, when she called Abraham "Lord." That doesn't mean "Lord" in the sense of God, but "Lord" in the sense of "master." ...As to the Lord means . . . that a woman should take great care in how she chooses her husband. Instead of looking for an attractive man, instead of looking for a wealthy man, instead of looking for a romantic man, a woman should first look for a man she can respect. G. Campbell Morgan recalls the story of the older Christian woman who had never married, and she explained, "I never met a man who could master me." She had the right idea.
                  Ephesians 5 Commentary - David Guzik Commentary on the Bible

                  Concerning Ephesians 5:33 David Guzik writes:
                  Let the wife see that she respects her husband: This word respects is the same word often used of the reverential fear and awe the disciples had toward Jesus. Can we say that the wife should respect the husband so highly, that it points in the direction of a reverential awe? “The Apostle used a very striking word here. It is rightly translated in the Authorized Version as ‘reverence’; but the word really means ‘fear’. ‘And the wife see that she fears her husband’. But we must remember that there are different types of fear . . . he speaks of ‘reverential’ fear. What it really means is ‘deference’, ‘with reverential obedience’.” (Lloyd-Jones)
                  Ephesians 5 Commentary - David Guzik Commentary on the Bible

                  Thus in Ephesians 5:22 David Guzik (whom atpollard elsewhere cited) affirms my position that the husband of the Christian wife is her "master" and according to Ephesians 5:33 she is to "fear" him in "obedience".


                  May the Triune God of all glory and grace be praised forever.
                  Last edited by Faber; 09-23-2016, 03:14 AM.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    atpollard you have 48 hours.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Well done Faber! I was worried for a moment that you weren’t going to show up for a fight. ;) I loved the Humpty Dumpty quote.


                      X. AN APPEAL TO AUTHORITY

                      Lexicographers do indeed derive the meaning of words from their Biblical context. Unfortunately, they derive the meaning from every instance of that word appearing in the Bible. This gives us a broad range of meanings only one of which may be appropriate to the specific scripture verse being examined. Then there is the second problem, it is only one man’s opinion. To rely on, let’s say Kenneth Wuest, I am trusting that Kenneth has correctly deduced which of the possible definitions applies to the verse I am reading and that is even assuming that the verse that I am looking at is one of the verses he lists in his examples.

                      Since any reference to a “Greek lexicon and/or theological dictionary” in a debate is ultimately a logical ‘appeal to authority’, why settle for the opinion of just one expert?

                      Let’s look at phobeō in Ephesians 5:33 from several different teams of experts on Theology, Greek and English … the various translations.

                      Ephesians 5:33
                      [ASV] Nevertheless do ye also severally love each one his own wife even as himself; and let the wife see that she fear her husband.
                      [DBY] But *ye* also, every one of you, let each so love his own wife as himself; but as to the wife I speak that she may fear the husband.
                      [ESV] However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
                      [HCSB] To sum up, each one of you is to love his wife as himself, and the wife is to respect her husband.
                      [HNV] Nevertheless each of you must also love his own wife even as himself; and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
                      [KJV] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
                      [NASB] Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
                      [NET] Nevertheless, each one of you must also love his own wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
                      [NIV] However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
                      [NKJV] Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
                      [NLT] So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
                      [RSV] however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
                      [WEB] Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself: and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
                      [YLT] but ye also, every one in particular -- let each his own wife so love as himself, and the wife -- that she may reverence the husband.


                      Here we have 14 different translations of the same verse. None of them are significantly different in general meaning, and all were translated by different groups of experts at different times and have stood the test of time. Faber contends that phobeō in Ephesians 5:33 supports the premise that a wife should FEAR her husband, yet only 2 of the 14 translations by teams of experts chose to translate phobeō as fear in this verse. Only the American Standard Version [ASV] of 1901 and the Darby [DBY] of 1890 chose fear. All of these other experts believed that “respect” (x9) or “reverence” (x3) were better translations of the relationship a wife was to have with her husband.

                      So with all due respect to Humpty Dumpty and Faber’s Lexicons, which is more accurate based on Ephesians 5:33 …

                      "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in FEAR of him since he is her lord/master/head."

                      "A Christian wife is to [follow, by stripping away her attitude of individuality and thinking about what is best for the whole ‘unit’] her husband in all things (except sin) in [HONOR, RESPECT] of him since he is her [lover and protector, accountable before God to care for her and serve her.]."

                      The weight of Authority is on the side of God and the wife because “Perfect love casts out all fear.” … fear is not the stuff marriages are built on.


                      XI. THE DISOBEDIENCE OF A GODLY WOMAN (1 Samuel 25)

                      1 Samuel 25:3 His name was Nabal and his wife’s name was Abigail. She was an intelligent and beautiful woman, but her husband was surly and mean in his dealings—he was a Calebite.

                      Here we have a story of a godly woman with a foolish husband. In all of those verses and commentary, I can't remember Faber or his Lexicographers presenting any exceptions for ‘foolish husbands’. Certainly "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head." appears to leave no room for exceptions. My opponent appears to assert that absolute obedience is commanded.

                      1 Samuel 25:10-11 Nabal answered David’s servants, “Who is this David? Who is this son of Jesse? Many servants are breaking away from their masters these days. Why should I take my bread and water, and the meat I have slaughtered for my shearers, and give it to men coming from who knows where?”

                      I think Nabal made his feelings and wishes clear.

                      1 Samuel 25:14-17 One of the servants told Abigail, Nabal’s wife, “David sent messengers from the wilderness to give our master his greetings, but he hurled insults at them. Yet these men were very good to us. They did not mistreat us, and the whole time we were out in the fields near them nothing was missing. Night and day they were a wall around us the whole time we were herding our sheep near them. Now think it over and see what you can do, because disaster is hanging over our master and his whole household. He is such a wicked man that no one can talk to him.”

                      It seems to me that Abigail understood both the situation and her husband’s wishes and "A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head.", or so we are told.

                      1 Samuel 25:18 Abigail acted quickly. She took two hundred loaves of bread, two skins of wine, five dressed sheep, five seahs[fn] of roasted grain, a hundred cakes of raisins and two hundred cakes of pressed figs, and loaded them on donkeys. 19 Then she told her servants, “Go on ahead; I’ll follow you.” But she did not tell her husband Nabal.

                      Abigail did exactly the opposite of her husband’s wishes. So when God finally passes judgment, what is the verdict?

                      1 Samuel 25:36-38 When Abigail went to Nabal, he was in the house holding a banquet like that of a king. He was in high spirits and very drunk. So she told him nothing at all until daybreak. Then in the morning, when Nabal was sober, his wife told him all these things, and his heart failed him and he became like a stone. About ten days later, the LORD struck Nabal and he died.

                      God punished the husband and rewarded the 'disobedience' of the wife. God has called the wife as a helper, respectful always, willingly following whenever possible and trusting in her lover and protector.


                      XII. SO WHY IS IT SO HARD?

                      It’s all about the curse, baby. Remember Adam and Eve and the tree and the snake? Well, it all comes to a head and there is a curse.

                      Genesis 3:16 Then he said to the woman, “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.”

                      The price for disobedience is that everything that makes a woman, a woman, will be harder. Have you ever noticed that animals don’t scream when they give birth? Childbirth just does not appear to be nearly as painful for animals as it is for women. That’s part of the curse. What should bring joy, brings pain. As an aside, nothing will break your heart more often than the children that should be a source of joy.

                      Adam failed Eve. God told the rule to Adam, but Eve misquoted the rule. Adam may not have properly instructed her, but Eve never had to go find Adam. When it was time for Adam to eat some fruit, she just handed it over to him. Adam stood there and did nothing to correct Eve or to protect Eve or to stop her from sinning. Later when God confronts ADAM about what happened (not Eve), Adam throws Eve under the bus and blames God … “It was the woman you gave me who gave". So part of the curse is that women have a real hard time embracing the husband's role as leader of the home and family. When it says “desire to control”, that word “desire” is the same word used in Genesis 4:7 for the desire of sin to master over Cain.


                      Genesis 3:17-19 And to the man he said, “Since you listened to your wife and ate from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat, the ground is cursed because of you. All your life you will struggle to scratch a living from it. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, though you will eat of its grains. By the sweat of your brow will you have food to eat until you return to the ground from which you were made. For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return.”

                      Ditto for men. Everything that makes a man, a man, will be harder. Men will choose to chase women rather than serve God as a form of idolatry. All of creation is cursed so that while we are still called to our divinely appointed work, our labors will produce both good and evil. Weeds will grow among our seeds. Work with joy is replaced by work with pain and weariness (see Job 7:1-5) and this labor ends not in deliverance, but death.

                      "As a result of the fall, man no longer rules easily; he must fight from his headship. Sin has corrupted both the willing submission of the wife and the loving headship of the husband. The woman's desire is to control her husband (to usurp his divinely appointed headship), and he must master her, if he can. So the rule of love founded in paradise is replaced by struggle, tyranny and domination." (Susan T. Foh)


                      XII. BUT GOD …

                      Sorry, I’m part Pentecostal. We can’t help ourselves. We just get all excited thinking about our Jesus.

                      First the bad news, a marriage between unsaved people doesn’t have a snowball's chance in … well, you get the idea … of succeeding at creating a Godly union. We talked about the curse and they have nothing to fight it. She will fight ‘til death do us part’ for control and he will be utterly incapable of giving anything close to the love and protection that God expects from Godly ‘headship’.

                      However, we are in the world but not of it. The curse is lifted in part. We are fortified from within and empowered to do all things IN CHRIST. That especially includes living as a Christian Husband and a Christian Wife to display for all the world the glory and love of the mystery of Christ and His Bride, the Church.

                      Ultimately, this touches on the deepest needs and desires of men and women. To be a man is to be conditioned to hunt and fight and find a mate. We deeply want respect and affirmation. When a wife submits, she activates our overriding urge to be a leader. We cannot lead without a follower. To be a woman, in general, is to want to be cherished. It is not a need for safety born of weakness, but rather a desire to be of first importance, to be someone who is beloved, to be special.

                      It is Testosterone, Combat and Champion vs Estrogen, Relationship and Connection. For those of us in Christ, the dream is achievable:

                      "A Christian wife is to [follow, by stripping away her attitude of individuality and thinking about what is best for the whole ‘unit’] her husband in all things (except sin) in [honor, respect] of him since he is her [lover and protector, accountable before God to care for her and serve her.]."

                      Like serving Christ, fear never enters into the picture.

                      Thank you all and God Bless,
                      Arthur


                      PS. Hey Faber, I guess now it’s time for the peanut gallery to tell us how we got it all wrong and enlighten us. :)
                      Last edited by atpollard; 09-23-2016, 05:34 PM.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        The debate is now closed. Thank you Atpollard and Faber. Anyone may now post in this thread. Please feel free to question, comment, or critique the debaters.
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Bring it on. :)
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Thank you for the debate atpollard. I was rather surprised by a few things you posted in your final response. These include the following.
                            1. You asserted: Lexicographers do indeed derive the meaning of words from their Biblical context. Unfortunately, they derive the meaning from every instance of that word appearing in the Bible.
                            This is not entirely accurate. For example, I cited Frederick Danker and the BDAG (3rd Edition) is called "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature'. So other writings of that era were also taken into account.
                            2. You asserted: Since any reference to a “Greek lexicon and/or theological dictionary” in a debate is ultimately a logical ‘appeal to authority’, why settle for the opinion of just one expert?
                            I didn't. I have cited several authorities. To claim that all of them are just opinions is your opinion. We can compare their Greek credentials and expertise with yours. In fact, any English word you choose I can insist that you properly define it. If/when you do I can always retort by saying it is just an opinion. Like I wrote in my previous post, "communication would simply break down".
                            3. I have cited more than 2 versions that teach a wife is to fear her husband. See post #2. As Frederick Danker points out it is "to have a profound measure of respect for, (have) reverence, respect, w. special ref. to fear of offending" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, phobeō, 1061).
                            This respect/reverence includes the idea of fear. Don't make a false dichotomy saying it is one or the other when it encompasses both.
                            4. Perfect love does indeed cast out fear but yet we are also told elsewhere to "fear God" (Revelation 15:4) and in fact we are told to "fear" our governing authorities (Romans 13:3).
                            5. Your appeal to Abigail does not take into account that David at that time was the king of Israel (cf. Romans 13:3).
                            6. You never mentioned about your citation of David Guzik and how elsewhere he affirms what I am asserting.
                            7. You asserted: Like serving Christ, fear never enters into the picture.
                            Ephesians 5:21
                            and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ (NASB)
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Faber View Post
                              Thank you for the debate atpollard. I was rather surprised by a few things you posted in your final response. These include the following.
                              1. You asserted: Lexicographers do indeed derive the meaning of words from their Biblical context. Unfortunately, they derive the meaning from every instance of that word appearing in the Bible.
                              This is not entirely accurate. For example, I cited Frederick Danker and the BDAG (3rd Edition) is called "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature'. So other writings of that era were also taken into account.
                              You are very welcome.
                              It was a lot of fun and an interesting experience.
                              One thing that I would like is some feedback from someone with more experience at this whether the focus is to defeat the "Topic" or to challenge the "Affirmative Posts". Since this was my first, I was unsure what to expect. I entered with the goal of primarily focusing on countering the Topic rather than the Affirmative.

                              On point #1 (above), I acknowledge that. I may not have been as clear in explaining my 'concern' (objection is too strong a word).

                              Let's use Thayer's Greek Lexicon and phobeō as an example. Depending on where the word is used, it can mean ...

                              I.to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
                              A.to put to flight, to flee
                              B.to fear, be afraid
                              i.to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
                              a.of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
                              b.of those struck with amazement
                              ii.to fear, be afraid of one
                              iii.to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
                              C.to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience

                              There is a huge difference between "to put to flight" and "to be seized with alarm by strange sights" and "hesitate to do something for fear of harm" and "to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience". If the Lexicon lists the verse you are looking at, then you know which definition to use. If not, then knowing that the Greek word is (phobeō) is less important than reading the fact that the verse falls in an entire section of scripture on mutual submission in love and honor.

                              I am not 'hating' on Lexicons, merely pointing out that knowing the possible meanings is not always enough.
                              In our specific case, even the other Lexicons you referenced noted that Ephesians 5:33 is really "fear" in the sense of ""to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience". Thus for you to choose "in fear" in 'A Christian wife is to obey her husband in all things (except sin) in fear of him since he is her lord/master/head' is a word choice with questionable connotations since "in reverence" or "in deference" or "with reverential obedience" would appear to match the meaning in Ephesians more closely.
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