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The Essential Doctrine of Christianity

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  • The Essential Doctrine of Christianity

    William brought up a good point in another thread, but I felt my question back was de-railing the original thread so decided to come over here and create a new one...

    e
    Originally posted by William View Post

    Just emphasizing the fact that Bobby made the distinction between essential and non essential doctrine. Essential doctrine does have a direct impact upon whether we worship rightly or worship a god made in our own image. Such a projection (the wrong one) would be idolatry and even blasphemy. Some would even go so far as to say the consequences are dire that it is better to not dive too deeply in the Mysteries of the Lord, for one may be found guilty even if contained within only their thought life.

    God bless,
    William
    I agree that this is an important distinction William. I am wondering if there is still debate on what is Essential Doctrine though? I was raised in a Brethren church, and was taught that the essential doctrine consists of:
    1) Belief that there is only one God
    2) The Deity of Christ (which includes the resurrection, that Jesus was the son of God, and belief in the Trinity)
    3) Salvation by Grace
    4) The Gospel is the word of God.

    I would be quite interested to hear if there are others out there that people consider essential doctrine and why. I am definitely not saying these are the only 4 that exist, just that these are the 4 I was raised to believe were the only ones. Look forward to hearing some other feelings on the issue.

  • #2
    Originally posted by EntropiaAddict View Post
    William brought up a good point in another thread, but I felt my question back was de-railing the original thread so decided to come over here and create a new one...

    e

    I agree that this is an important distinction William. I am wondering if there is still debate on what is Essential Doctrine though? I was raised in a Brethren church, and was taught that the essential doctrine consists of:
    1) Belief that there is only one God
    2) The Deity of Christ (which includes the resurrection, that Jesus was the son of God, and belief in the Trinity)
    3) Salvation by Grace
    4) The Gospel is the word of God.

    I would be quite interested to hear if there are others out there that people consider essential doctrine and why. I am definitely not saying these are the only 4 that exist, just that these are the 4 I was raised to believe were the only ones. Look forward to hearing some other feelings on the issue.

    All of what you shared falls under the umbrella of Soteriological study. Soteriology is essential, and all denominations (30,000+) fall within only a handful of camps: Arianism, Pelgianism, Arminianism, Calvinism, etc. Basically, all denominations agree on central truths and points essential to Salvation as outlined in the Ecumenical Creeds. This is why they are Christian Denominations, and not a Sect or Cult. You can find them here with respect to the Nicene Creed, Apostles Creed, etc: Our Belief -Christforums

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by EntropiaAddict View Post
      William brought up a good point in another thread, but I felt my question back was de-railing the original thread so decided to come over here and create a new one...

      e

      I agree that this is an important distinction William. I am wondering if there is still debate on what is Essential Doctrine though? I was raised in a Brethren church, and was taught that the essential doctrine consists of:
      1) Belief that there is only one God
      2) The Deity of Christ (which includes the resurrection, that Jesus was the son of God, and belief in the Trinity)
      3) Salvation by Grace
      4) The Gospel is the word of God.

      I would be quite interested to hear if there are others out there that people consider essential doctrine and why. I am definitely not saying these are the only 4 that exist, just that these are the 4 I was raised to believe were the only ones. Look forward to hearing some other feelings on the issue.
      WHERE did you learn? At home, yes. But in church, properly?

      Now that's why Karl Bath said, when we have finished to confess God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we CANNOT stop there but MUST go on to confess the WORK of the Holy Spirit which is the Church!.

      Therefore the doctrine of the Church is essential too.

      Now this was where I dared to go further, and said, the Church CANNOT stop after having confessed the Church as the Work of God's Holy Spirit, but MUST go on to confess ... the DAY OF WORSHIP of the Lord Jesus Christ by the Body of his Own, the Church!

      Therefore the doctrine of the Sabbath of God's Worship Rest for the People of God, is essential too.

      So thought Paul, "Let not therefore yourselves be judged by anyone with regard to eating and drinking of Sabbaths' Feast : OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE / ESSENCE ... and Nourishment ministered".

      And so thought the apostles and the Church, Acts 13:44; 15:21,25,30,31; 16:4,5; 16:13; 17:2; 19:8.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
        Therefore the doctrine of the Sabbath of God's Worship Rest for the People of God, is essential too.

        So thought Paul, "Let not therefore yourselves be judged by anyone with regard to eating and drinking of Sabbaths' Feast : OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE / ESSENCE ... and Nourishment ministered".
        I'm a little fuzzy on what you are trying to say?

        Is the specific day of Church Service ESSENTIAL? (so attending a Saturday Service at a large Church because one has to work on Sundays, or being a nurse working weekends and attending only the Wednesday Service is a sin? Damnable? What? Essential for what? Or are you just saying "Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together"?


        I thought Paul's point in Colossians 2:16 was freedom from an ESSENTIAL specific Sabbath (like Holy Days of Obligation, or the view of 7th Day Adventists).
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by atpollard View Post
          I'm a little fuzzy on what you are trying to say?

          Is the specific day of Church Service ESSENTIAL? (so attending a Saturday Service at a large Church because one has to work on Sundays, or being a nurse working weekends and attending only the Wednesday Service is a sin? Damnable? What? Essential for what? Or are you just saying "Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together"?


          I thought Paul's point in Colossians 2:16 was freedom from an ESSENTIAL specific Sabbath (like Holy Days of Obligation, or the view of 7th Day Adventists).
          I am just saying "Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together". "The assembling of yourselves together"! That, this, clearly is the out of the usual!

          And it is in exactly Colossians 2 where Paul is describing and defining this out of the ordinary "assembling together" of "The Body of Christ's Own" the Christian Church, "Therefore--since Christ triumphed-- do not you, let yourselves be condemned (or) judged in (your) eating and drinking of Feast of SABBATHS OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE."












          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by atpollard View Post
            I'm a little fuzzy on what you are trying to say?

            Is the specific day of Church Service ESSENTIAL? (so attending a Saturday Service at a large Church because one has to work on Sundays, or being a nurse working weekends and attending only the Wednesday Service is a sin? Damnable? What? Essential for what? Or are you just saying "Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together"?


            I thought Paul's point in Colossians 2:16 was freedom from an ESSENTIAL specific Sabbath (like Holy Days of Obligation, or the view of 7th Day Adventists).

            <<Is the specific day of Church Service ESSENTIAL?>>
            Is the CHURCH SERVICE, essential?

            <<Essential for what?>>
            <<The specific day of Church Service>> is <essential> for “not forsaking the assembling of yourself together”! For what else!?
            You <thought> a little wrong though, <<Paul's point>> in Colossians 2:16 is not <<freedom from>>, but the essential freedom of, obligation in both attending Christian Assembling-Together, and, <<the specific day of Church Service>> which in the Scriptures throughout, has always and exclusively been, “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD – your, God.”

            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
              You <thought> a little wrong though, <<Paul's point>> in Colossians 2:16 is not <<freedom from>>, but the essential freedom of, obligation in both attending Christian Assembling-Together, and, <<the specific day of Church Service>> which in the Scriptures throughout, has always and exclusively been, “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD – your, God.”
              Romans 14:1-9
              1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
              5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. [NIV]


              While I do not consider SUNDAY Service to be ESSENTIAL, I do understand the symbolism and precedence for it ...

              Mark 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
              John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
              John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
              Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
              1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
              Revelation 1:10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,


              Clearly Scripture teaches that Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday), so I can see why a Christian might want to praise God on that particular day. Furthermore, I really think that Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16 grant us the freedom to do so. [However, I welcome an exegesis explaining why I have misunderstood the meaning of these scriptures ... infallible is never a word that I would use to describe myself.]

              Acts 20:7 seems to suggest that the sacrament of the Lords Supper may have been administered on the first day (although 'break bread' can also just mean share a meal, so this is only suggestive and not irrefutable proof). However, 1 Corinthians 16:2 does clearly imply that it was the habit of the Church at Corinth (and the other churches in the area that the letter was circulated to) to meet regularly on the first day of the week (which made this a convenient time to gather the money), and by the time John wrote Revelation 1:10, the first day of the week appears to have been commonly called the Lord's Day (for obvious reasons). Surely you cannot object to people who love Jesus assembling on the day of his resurrection (Sunday) to praise and worship God?

              I see nothing in Colossians 2:16 or Romans 14:5 that would suggest that God has a problem with that either.

              God Bless,
              Arthur
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by atpollard View Post

                Romans 14:1-9
                1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
                5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. [NIV]


                While I do not consider SUNDAY Service to be ESSENTIAL, I do understand the symbolism and precedence for it ...

                Mark 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
                John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
                John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
                Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
                1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
                Revelation 1:10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,


                Clearly Scripture teaches that Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday), so I can see why a Christian might want to praise God on that particular day. Furthermore, I really think that Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16 grant us the freedom to do so. [However, I welcome an exegesis explaining why I have misunderstood the meaning of these scriptures ... infallible is never a word that I would use to describe myself.]

                Acts 20:7 seems to suggest that the sacrament of the Lords Supper may have been administered on the first day (although 'break bread' can also just mean share a meal, so this is only suggestive and not irrefutable proof). However, 1 Corinthians 16:2 does clearly imply that it was the habit of the Church at Corinth (and the other churches in the area that the letter was circulated to) to meet regularly on the first day of the week (which made this a convenient time to gather the money), and by the time John wrote Revelation 1:10, the first day of the week appears to have been commonly called the Lord's Day (for obvious reasons). Surely you cannot object to people who love Jesus assembling on the day of his resurrection (Sunday) to praise and worship God?

                I see nothing in Colossians 2:16 or Romans 14:5 that would suggest that God has a problem with that either.

                God Bless,
                Arthur
                I think you clearly outlined the Scripture that is to be followed by the Regulative Principle. You provided Scripture that says which day we ought to worship, break bread, and collect our offerings.

                God bless,
                William
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                  While I do not consider SUNDAY Service to be ESSENTIAL, I do understand the symbolism and precedence for it ...

                  Mark 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
                  John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
                  John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
                  Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
                  1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
                  Revelation 1:10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

                  Re:
                  <<Mark 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene>>

                  <<When Jesus rose>> is FALSE.
                  "Risen / Resurrected, Jesus on the first day of the week, early, appeared first to Mary Magdalene" is TRUE.

                  Re:
                  <<John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance>> is FALSE.

                  “Still being early of dark / dusk / after sunset evening on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene comes (allowing Singular only) to the tomb and sees (allowing Singular only) the stone removed, lying (‘ehrmenon’ Perfect) from the entrance” is TRUE

                  Re:
                  <<John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”>>

                  John did not write ‘being on the First Day’, but, “Being then evening”- ‘ousehs oun opsias’.

                  “Being then evening the day relating to (‘ousehs oun opsias tehi hehmerai’ Dative of Relation or Reference to)
                  that (‘ekeinehi’ Relative Pronoun) day the First (Day) of the week.” (‘ousehs oun opsias tehi hehmerai ekeinehi tehi Miai (Hehmerai) sabbatohn’)

                  Therefore, John 20:19,
                  “Being then evening with reference to / relating that day the First Day of the week.” Which only is to say, “Having been evening after that First Day of the week… Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

                  Re: Acts 20:7 … 1 Corinthians 16:2 … Revelation 1:10 …
                  Answered before.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                    Clearly Scripture teaches that Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday), so I can see why a Christian might want to praise God on that particular day. Furthermore, I really think that Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16 grant us the freedom to do so. [However, I welcome an exegesis explaining why I have misunderstood the meaning of these scriptures ... infallible is never a word that I would use to describe myself.]
                    Clearly Scripture nowhere, <<teaches that Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday)>>.

                    And yes, one <<can see why a Christian might want to praise God on that particular day>> that Christ rose from the dead on. As long as it isn’t “on the Sabbath” as written, “While late on the Sabbath in the very mid-afternoon declining towards the First Day of the week… the angel of the Lord… cast the stone from the grave…” AND JESUS ROSE “First Sheaf Waved Before the LORD”. As long as it isn’t “on the Sabbath” as written because then you’re a fanatical legalist, whether <<Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16 grant us the freedom to do so>> or not.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                      Corinthians 16:2 does clearly imply that it was the habit of the Church at Corinth (and the other churches in the area that the letter was circulated to) to meet regularly on the first day of the week
                      Again that ever present <<habit of the Church to meet regularly on the first day of the week>> but no word <habit> or <regularly>, or, <meet> or <Church>; OR words, "on the first day of the week" in 1Corinthians 16:2?!
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                        Clearly Scripture nowhere, <<teaches that Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday)>>.
                        Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
                        Mark 16:9
                        Clyde Herrin's Blog
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                          Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
                          Mark 16:9
                          Is the action implied or the meaning of “risen”, the same as the action or the meaning of “appeared”? No; it is not. Therefore the moment of the relative time is DIFFERENT, and the moment in time of the action to have raised up and be risen is PAST and FINISHED – is the ‘Vollendung’ – or state in which he in time-relation, the FOLLOWING “early morning on the First Day of the week, appeared”.

                          Blass Debrunner, § 339, “Die Partizipia hatten ursprünglich keine temporale Funktion, sondern bezeichneten nur die Aktionsart; das zeitliche Verhältnis zum Verbum finitum ergab sich aus dem Zusammenhang. Da nun aber ein die Vollendung ausdrückendes Partiz. oft vor dem Vb. finitum stand und dabei das Verhältnis gewohnheitsmäβig häufig das war, daβ die Vollendung der Handlung des Partiz. vor der Handlung des Vb. finitum lag, verband sich mit dem Partiz. Aor. bis zu einem gewissen Grad die Bedeutung der relativen Vergangenheit… 1. Besonders fehlt dem Partiz. Aor. das Moment der relativen Zeit, wenn seine Handlung mit der des aorischen Vb. finitum identisch ist…”


                          It is Jesus "WAS risen" = "was raised WHEN He APPEARED" in Mark 16:9.
                          LONG BEFORE "~On the first day of the week, very early in the morning~" in the east, in fact, "Late on the Sabbath being in the very daylight of the Sabbath in the middle of afternoon getting late towards the beginning of the First Day of the week" in the west, sunset, Jesus, 15 hours ago, had already raised and "was risen" before "He appeared, first, to Mary Magdalene, early on the First Day of the week."

                          He was raised before He appeared, and He "was risen when He appeared... first".

                          Note the duplicity -- which is impossible in the Greek -- in the English, seen as
                          1a) the indicative passive Past Tense, "He was raised when He appeared"; or,
                          1b) "was raised" seen as passive adverbial Participle, "He was raised when He appeared"; or, instead of "was raised",
                          2) in the KJV, the active adverbial Participle, "was risen".
                          Last edited by Gerhard Ebersöhn; 01-14-2017, 05:38 PM.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Q~God wants full custody of his children, not just visits on Sunday.~Q

                            God wants full custody of his children, His Way, "Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work... but the day The Seventh Day is Sabbath of the LORD thy GOD."
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                              Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
                              Mark 16:9
                              The problem is not with "early on the first day of the week, he appeared"; it is with the English Verb, "rose".
                              It should be a Participle FOR THE Participle of the Greek, e.g., in old English (like that of the KJV), "...Jesus WAS RISEN when He early on the first day of the week, appeared..." When Jesus appeared, He "was risen" or "resurrected".
                              Comment>
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